Re: Lumia 920 (a question to whom possesses a Lumia)
 

Yeah, the project is more or less dead I'm afraid. But the idea is tempting - being able to DIY build your phone using available components, more or less like you can assemble your PC.

Re: Lumia 920 (a question to whom possesses a Lumia)
 

Well I defo wouldn't fancy trying to build the engine board... :p

Re: Lumia 920 (a question to whom possesses a Lumia)
 

Lumias are great phones of you want idiot proof phone.

Re: Lumia 920 (a question to whom possesses a Lumia)
 

A nice statement from the man who was destined to be CEO till Stephen Elop arrived: https://twitter.com/anssivanjoki/sta...49337497882624


How I wish he hadn't resigned and carried on...

Re: Lumia 920 (a question to whom possesses a Lumia)
 

"As we said, the Nokia Lumia 920 is the world's most innovative smartphone!"

WHAAAAAATTTTT???

Re: Lumia 920 (a question to whom possesses a Lumia)
 

I think she misspoke...it is the world's most innovative featurephone or taliban phone in Lumiaman's words :p

Re: Lumia 920 (a question to whom possesses a Lumia)
 

chances are, until Jolla starts selling any device (if ever...) N900 is the closest we ever got to an "open sourced" platform

Re: Lumia 920 (a question to whom possesses a Lumia)
 

Jolla ain't gonna be that open either. Especially if they're having to license the bits we know about.

And the N900 wasn't fully open either. That trend of exaggerating that needs to end now.

Re: Lumia 920 (a question to whom possesses a Lumia)
 

pure semantics but...

closest = fully?

Re: Lumia 920 (a question to whom possesses a Lumia)
 

Not semantics when it is not fully open. To change one word to suit your needs is not semantics. That's just improper communication.

Re: Lumia 920 (a question to whom possesses a Lumia)
 

I second that.

Re: Lumia 920 (a question to whom possesses a Lumia)
 

i said...

where did i say N900 / Maemo 5 was fully open?

Re: Lumia 920 (a question to whom possesses a Lumia)
 

Close only counts in hand grenades and horse shoes... mentioning it to most folks that it's "more open" than X, Y and Z means it's fully open to them.

And it's not.

I'm merely stopping the spiraling trend from actual to fiction before it starts again.

Re: Lumia 920 (a question to whom possesses a Lumia)
 

Well, how is N9 more innovative than the Lumia 920?
1. 920 has an industry leading IPS LCD on a mobile phone for now.
2. 920 has OIS which no current competing smartphone camera has.
3. 920 has wireless charging out of the box which no current competing smartphone has.
4. 920 has Super Sensitive touch screen which no current competing smartphone has.

To me, that's innovation that Nokia should be proud of.

N9..... Well, it had a nice OS and UI.. Nice design... Limited by crappy internal hardware... Low resolution pentile AMOLED, weak CPU and really old GPU/DSP that struggles to play even its own 720p recorded video. I do love the double-tap-to-wake-up feature of the N9 though. I wish all phones had that. Overall, I reckon N8 was more innovative than the N9 at the time of release. (HDMI out, best camera at the time with xenon flash etc)

808 is basically an N8 with better SoC but with MUCH MUCH better camera.

IMHO, N900 was far more innovative than the N9 or 808. Maemo5 OS is awesome, built-in stand, qwerty keyboard, built-in stylus, awesome MicroB, replaceable battery, microsd support etc etc. Nokia should have just upgraded the N900 with the SoC and RAM of 920, camera of 808 and display of 920. Now I'm sure that would have made all of us here VERY happy. :D

fyi - Windows Phone 8, although details are still sketchy, is a whole new OS to the Windows Phone 7x. Windows Phone 8 OS will include the same file system (NTFS), same networking stack, same security elements, graphics engine (DirectX), device driver framework and hardware abstraction layer (HAL) as PC version of Windows 8. Yes, it's closed. But that's as good closed OS as you'll get on a mobile phone at least. (and possibly be the best mobile gaming platform of them all)

Re: Lumia 920 (a question to whom possesses a Lumia)
 

When we are talking about innovation we should also include a few things. Key amoung them are progress and usefulness.

It's easy to make an innovative phone. But it's hard to make it successfully. If no one else using the innovation in the future. Was it really a innovation in the first place. Sure meego had a new os and a new way of handle navigation. Was it really an innovation? No. Because it died without success. Will Jolla release a innovation. Only time will tell, and same with lumia. If people buying it and it evolved. It's an bigger innovation than n9 for sure.

Re: Lumia 920 (a question to whom possesses a Lumia)
 

i'm not saying it is more open then anything else.
i'm stating it is the closest we got to an open source platform.

sometimes i can't help wondering whether you only play dumb or are plain dumb senile :mad:

EDIT: you wiggle like a politician or a child caught in a lie (politician lie for a living...) :(
EDIT2: or a salesman...

Re: Lumia 920 (a question to whom possesses a Lumia)
 

Oh, I knew your words. I just tend to see folks take a truth as you had stated it and run with it until it's a full-blown hyperbole.

Quoting you, I should have stated that first. Therefore, I apologize.

A lot of "A", a heaping spoonful of "B". Dumber than a box of rocks set on fire and thrown at a school bus full of nuns. And senile enough to forget I did it.

I couldn't sell a thing on my best day. And I have way too many skeletons in my closet to be a politician.

Regardless; in this case I am not lying. The simple truth is that the N900 (Maemo5) and the N9 (Harmattan) were not fully open phones. And as far as being the "most open", I'm willing to bet that OpenMoko might take issue with that.

Either way, that's the part that's semantics. Who was the most open? At the end of the day, what matters the most to stock holders (read: idiots with a lot of money) who want to make the most of their money and do nothing, consumers (read: uninformed idiots with disposable income) who do nothing yet are the most vocal and developers/early adopters (read: like the lovely people here at TMO) that worry mostly about whether or not we will enjoy the device with like minded people and can we develop/hack/tweak the ever-living **** out of it.

Most open is a wildly popular yet truly misleading qualifier. In the end, it means nothing if we get truly dropped from the company that created it and are forgotten and not given access to all of the source we need or we don't have talented developers that don't storm off in a ragequit rant about how the community is full of idiots and ingrates.

Politician. Pfft. I enjoy my enemies as-is.

Re: Lumia 920 (a question to whom possesses a Lumia)
 

Not adding to the person's statement you were arguing against; however I'd have to say that the N9 is more innovative for just a few of the following reasons:

• Only phone to run MeeGo
  Only phone to run Harmattan
  First phone with Swipe UI
  First phone to use all polycarbonate build from one piece
  Has won many design awards
  Developed by a very small, yet determined group of people whereas WP7/WP8 is built by a HUGE group of folks

Not saying that means much; however it does mean that the N9 could be seen as an innovator given when it came out, how it came about and how it was seen in the community.

Just saying...

Re: Lumia 920 (a question to whom possesses a Lumia)
 

Well, your last 2 points aren't "innovation" are they. :p
And your first 2 points should actually be a single point.

Don't get me wrong, I love the N900 and N9 as much.
I'm sure you know that I know the merits of the N9 quite well. :)

The only thing good (if you actually think it's good) that came out of N9 was the polycarbonate body so far. (which Nokia kept using) But I actually don't like how that lead to non-replaceable battery, lack of MicroSD card slot and more weight. (e.g. Lumia 920 is 2mm thicker and weighs over 50g more than the Galaxy S3 which has a bigger display, bigger battery, full SIM card slot and MicroSD slot that Lumia 920 lacks)

Prettiness has a cost and I'll rather have a N900 design than the N9 if it has the same internal HW. I'm sure most here would. So yeah, I actually feel the monocoque body of the N9/800/900/920 is not "good" innovation. To me, 820's interchangeable shell design is more of an innovation than the limiting and heavy (although strong) uni-body of N9.

Re: Lumia 920 (a question to whom possesses a Lumia)
 

Recognition for innovation by others is a point basically.

SSSshhh! You weren't supposed to notice!

Re: Lumia 920 (a question to whom possesses a Lumia)
 

As much as I loved Maemo5 and Meego Harmattan with Swipe UI on the N9, I had to move on due to the lacking hardware and apps. (When you are a dad of 2 young ones, you do need a lot more infant-friendly games than what what N9/N900 provides. =p)

So yeah, I'm currently using my Galaxy Note as my intermediary phone/phablet to cover all my needs. (and most of my wants) It does a darn good job of it but I do want something more unique if I can. Android OS is okay but just doesn't provide the feeling of N9/N900 due to its crappy multitasking experience. (well, there are apps that simulate the Swipe UI-like multitasking but the OS itself is a limiting factor)

Lumia 920 might actually be good enough for me. I have high expectations for Windows Phone 8 due to its more desktop OS like roots. HW is great also. Quite eager to try out the OIS in the camera and enjoy the much faster and buttery smooth user experience compared to Android.

But, I am sad that Nokia may not make any exotic phones anymore like it used to due to its new business model. Nokia N900-2 is never gonna happen now. =(

Re: Lumia 920 (a question to whom possesses a Lumia)
 

apologises accepted :o



i guess you are still the same (old?) grumpy gerbick of old ;)
apologises for having missed your angle and doubted you :p



wonder whether we need to address the "general public" here :confused:
couldn't we just stick to the "like minded people"?

this being said, i already posted this a couple times...
with Maemo / MeeGo & all, NOKIA primarily proved one thing... the is no money (to speak of) to be made with open source :(
and the whole industry watched MeeGo tumble

and we already profusely argued whether N9 properly marketed may have succeeded where 770, N8x0 and N900 failled
(not that later where ever intended to be mass-market devices)

not sure how Jolla intends to improve that :eek:
after all, a good part of the Jolla folks are former NOKIA Maemo team member
let's hope they learned a thing or two on the way...

Re: Lumia 920 (a question to whom possesses a Lumia)
 

Yep. Again, no worries. I figured you mistook my words. You know me... harmless and grumpy as ever.

No. But the general public just pre-purchased 2 million iPhone 5's. It's less about sales here though...

And I'd rather deal with this ^ but the more the general public backs something else, the least likely it becomes we'll have unique endeavors like Maemo and the N900/N9.

There may not be any money; however there is merit. Bad management didn't see the money in Maemo/MeeGo. RedHat has proven that there is money in open source.

Marketing would have helped. Distribution should have been better handled and more widely distributed.

They're working on communication and developers right now it seems. They're also working on distribution, with the Chinese contract already in hand, they're on the road to doing more than Nokia did in regards to the N9 and Harmattan.

Let's hope.

Re: Lumia 920 (a question to whom possesses a Lumia)
 

Nokia is following Apple's footsteps, completely moving towards closed source so that they can make more money

Re: Lumia 920 (a question to whom possesses a Lumia)
 

God! The first thing I would want them to learn from Apple is the over-exaggerating marketing hype that Apple generates...It can only be good for Nokia to follow such...

Moving towards closed source to make money?...Why can't we look at things objectively; WP was their choice from WP & Android...Plain Simple...They didn't want to engage into wars with other OEMs in using Android [Samsung would have had them for breakfast]...

We never know if Nokia will exist to even see out the WP-contract...Maybe then there is a change of mindset or they are self-sufficient to make their own software again...

Don't take things so personally...Its just a corporation trying to maximise its profits+chances of survival for better returns for its shareholders and they would use whatever it takes to achieve it [open, closed, s*** etc.]...

Re: Lumia 920 (a question to whom possesses a Lumia)
 

Exactly.. They share the same kernel, I can imagine how that will make things very interesting for any Windows user :)

Later,
Chinoman10.

Re: Lumia 920 (a question to whom possesses a Lumia)
 

Allowing companies to be just that and regardless still throw them our cash is what makes us responsible for the mess this world is in.

Nokia had the hardware, had the OS and they blew it for me, personally.

Re: Lumia 920 (a question to whom possesses a Lumia)
 

What I meant was see; Nokia had chosen to use an external OS and they had 2 options; WP or Android...They chose WP as they felt this is where they will make more money in the future and NOT because WP is closed-source...

If you read quotes by Elop he has admitted that going down the WP path would give smaller profit margins compared to the in-house OSes which were to a large extent open-source...

So how are they making more money by going closed source? Its not about the openness but the $$$ that made Nokia's decision...

I've never been a fan of the WP decision as I felt the Harmattan path was better but it has been chosen and till the end of the WP-contract its nearly impossible to do anything about it no matter how much we hate Nokia for it...

Will I buy a Nokia after my n9 dies? Well I'm not too sure...After all, its based on my needs and I'll choose something I feel comfortable with but at this point I'm hoping Jolla do something good to convince me...

Re: Lumia 920 (a question to whom possesses a Lumia)
 

Dangerous. Is the contract with MS closed source too?

MS is just THE corporation trying to maximise its profits+chances of survival for better returns for its shareholders and they would use whatever it takes to achieve it [prevent Linux handset proliferation infecting desktop market, use Nokia for profit, dispose of Nokia as a Lumia]...

I feel - MS contract or not- the chances that Nokia will be able to continue to differentiate under MS reign by great software once the pool of nice hardware R&D concepts built up in the old times of huge budgets but steer less management are minimal.

MS on the contrary is acutally using Nokia and benefiting today to differentiate its OS with nice hardware AND software (Maps).

And old Finnish saying goes somehow like this "adapting the MS software is like shitting your pants to ease saddle pains while riding an uncontrollable horse.

Sooner or later you'll be found by the road side without transportation and pants full of sht :)

Re: Lumia 920 (a question to whom possesses a Lumia)
 

I agree too with the conclusion that MS need Nokia more then Nokia needing MS
MS was losing its share in emerging tablet/smarthones to Apple and Google and was abandoned even by HTC
and the Desktop market have no long term future (and is shrinking)
will MS and Nokia survive in this harsh battle between Giants Apple/Samsung?

Re: Lumia 920 (a question to whom possesses a Lumia)
 

I am a bit worried about the fact that WP8 OS is still a work in progress. It seems that there are delays around it, and I wonder how buggy it will be. its a major leap from WP7

Re: Lumia 920 (a question to whom possesses a Lumia)
 

Day-by-day the news out of Redmond isn't encouraging...It seems as though the transition to the NT kernel is causing issues...

The problem is not only the delays its causing but the move to NT kernel looks to be adversely affecting performance...The so-called super smoothness of WP7 may give way to lags here and there even with the latest S4 processors and 1GB RAM... :eek:

Now being honest, the "super smoothness" was marketed alot so for them to have this issue will kill the platform to a huge extent...

This would really strike off WP8 from many people's wish-list and Nokia will find itself again as the purveyor of imperfect hw+sw combo...

Re: Lumia 920 (a question to whom possesses a Lumia)
 

Transition to NT kernel? I thought Windows always used the NT kernel?

Well i did hear that for Windows 8 kernel has seen some major upgrades to support ARM processors from what i've seen it was still NT. OR am i wrong? If i'm wrong could someone explain the current situation?

Re: Lumia 920 (a question to whom possesses a Lumia)
 

WP<8 used WinCE now they are transiting to WinNT...

Actually WP was the same as WM using WinCE as the underlying base...

WinCE though shitty was actually more efficient over resources than WinNT hence their issues...

Re: Lumia 920 (a question to whom possesses a Lumia)
 

Ohh I see, but that means that Window phone 8 SO with NT kernel is going to be bloated :(

Re: Lumia 920 (a question to whom possesses a Lumia)
 

Exactly...Nobody has been picking on this...If you are going to use WinNT granted your performance will improve over CE but resources are going to be used less efficiently and bloatness will remain regardless...

Sometimes I wonder whether M$ think exactly what they are doing...It seems like for them mobile is a division that they are just toying with...

They broke compatibility with WM for WP7 but they used the same WinCE kernel...Now WP8 apps wont run on WP7+ due to WinNT kernel...WTF? just do it once and be done instead of repeated changes...

Re: Lumia 920 (a question to whom possesses a Lumia)
 

BTW, i just noticed Lumiaman got banned again? The title below his user name shows banned even though he's online...

LOL!

Edit: Now it shows him as offline and banned...wonder how long will be the ban be this time long...I'm thinking it must be permanent with his constant bans...

Re: Lumia 920 (a question to whom possesses a Lumia)
 

Windows 8 are ready!

Time for Lumiaman to pick up phone.

Re: Lumia 920 (a question to whom possesses a Lumia)
 

Exactly. That explains where the DX10 support came from. Does not this mean that some of explains that work on Windows will be able to affect the Windows Phone platform?

Re: Lumia 920 (a question to whom possesses a Lumia)
 

M$ is big...The work doesn't get affected easily and from latest rumours they are working overtime on WP but the NT kernel is proving a pain in the a** hence the lack of a SDK till date for WP8... A beta SDK will be released 1-2 weeks before launch whereas for Mango and WP7 proper the full SDK was released a few months before launch...