Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

And what about multi-user , multitasking? One browsing the web, while the other watching video?
Limiting usage scenario's has no end until you are back at the starting point only making simple phone calls.

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

Symbian has been a full multitasking OS since day one. Its predecessors EPOC32 and EPOC16 (SIBO) were also full multitasking OSes - this was back in the days when Windows had trouble singletasking (nowadays Windows has improved to the point where it can run multiple trojans/malware/viruses at the same time as well as whatever program you're running in the foreground). Even in allowing full multitasking, Symbian phones still have the best battery life on the market.

Very true. Unfortunately (or fortunately) hardware development has been improving much faster than software development. Hence it doesn't make commercial sense to spend a year or two to optimise your software to run on current hardware when by that time your software will "automatically" run twice as fast on the newer hardware.

Neither does the iphone ...?

I blame the Americans ;) Whilst Psion did fairly well in Europe with their fully multitasking, decent screen/keyboard/applications & expandable PDAs, Americans were happy with the Palm Pilots with their tiny screens and no keyboards and limited storage. And history is repeating itself.

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

Funny how the "superior" tech just keeps on losing and how the Americans get blamed each and every time.

Oh well. Do better next time perhaps? We'll love the next great tech perhaps.

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

Well I know that this "multitasking" is copied from first wiindows 95..or xp.

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

I do.

I do when I watch TV (browse wikipedia to look up things they talk about on TV).

I do on my PC (keep surfing while watching a video that isn't exactly about quantum mechanics).

I used to on a tablet even though it didn't display both the browser an the video at the same time. It was good that I could listen to the video while switching to the browser only for a few seconds.

The worst thing in UI design is to assume what people won't do.

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

Isn't it a bit snotty to assume we fail to understand?

It may well be that performance and battery issues are the reasons why some popular OSs don't allow real user-controlled multi-tasking.

On the other hand, some users may prefer having total control. Control always includes risks. I can deal with such risks. I know what to do when suddenly, after I installed an application, battery life goes down significantly. I know what to do when my device slows down more and more because of the many applications running in the background.

Still, I want to be able to keep them running if I have a reason to. I want to be able to decide for myself what's more important to me at the moment, battery life or the output of one special application that keeps crunching numbers in the background.

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

There is one thing more to consider. When computers gets more and more advanced users tend to run more and more things. At some point you lose visibility of the list anyway. Don't think a driver of a car or a pilot in a plain want be able to check processes running, but expect subsystem handle that and only show the user the relevant data or information. While the mobile devices aren't their yet. It's not long until they could run, controlled lots of things at the same time and the user must get help to handle processes and memory and tasks.

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

I didn't say nobody understood.

I respect your choices, and I understand that you (as most people here) are power users. But when designing a piece of hardware + software, one has to make compromises - in this case either you do the full multitasking thing, or you do the android-ios thing, doing both is not economically feasible (plus average users will get confused).
And choosing the more fail-safe solution is better when you consider a huge (and mostly non-tech savvy) userbase.

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

You can do it on a Symbian S60v3 device. I had a Nokia N73 and I used to play 2 songs simultaneously :D One using the default media player and another one using the app - Xplore :D

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

Well, the whole idea about owning a personal device is so you can use it to help you in life. And yes, a mobile PHONE is supposed to make phone CALLS. That was the whole point of it.

Those features are pretty good, yes, but not for a device that is around 4.5" in length. Those features would be pretty great on a tablet or laptop.. which they are and that is why they were invented. Those are the portable devices which should allow multi-user scenario - doing it on a tiny mobile phone might be "cool", but that's about it.

EXACTLY. A TV.. a laptop.. a tablet.. all devices are meant to do that. As I said above, features like those are a nice addition in a mobile phone, but it makes more sense on a larger screen than on a handheld device.

Even if you do watch a video while browsing the internet, you're wasting screen area for the browser and it makes it harder for you to navigate. But making the screen larger isn't the answer; now you're just compromising between a tablet and a phone. A handheld device that makes phone calls shouldn't be so huge that it looks like you stuck a book to your face. Sure, people will get used to it eventually, but it's just silly.

Make calls and do the essential things on the move using a phone, use a laptop for other things. If you want to do both, use a tablet - that's what they're created for. Personally, I think trying to fit all these features into a small device and compromising battery life, more harmful radiation, interaction with the REAL world, marketing it as the best device.. these are all just commercial stuff to get people buying a device which probably is only extremely useful to 0.001% of the "rich" population.

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

Definitely, the mobile phone was created to allow you to use the phone network without being tethered to one spot. And it's a great idea. But that's not the only thing I want to do without being tethered to one spot. :) I do want to be able to use the internet and manage information while on the go, and I like being able to do so with a pocketable device; not everything requires a huge video screen. Some things don't require a screen at all! (I very much like the idea of having a web server in my pocket. And allowing computers to "tether" to a cell phone for internet service is certainly a popular ability these days...)

Before the N900, I used to do just that. (I tried to use my iPhone as a tiny computer, but that was fruitless...) Nowadays, I can edit my files in vi or log into another PC, without having to lug around a laptop all the time.

Ugh. Really? I don't see the tablet as anything more than a portable TV. They're just as inconvenient to carry around as a laptop, as hard to type on as a cell phone, and honestly can't do as much as either a laptop or a smart phone. The worst of both worlds...

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

@Copernicus

OK, that's good.. the things you're able to do.. that's what a mobile phone is for in today's modern world. Manage files, web server.. I agree with you. It's pretty amazing to be able to do all that, I'm not against that.. I'm all up for it.

However, the point of this thread was to talk about the "multi-tasking" features which Android introduced.. specifically, playing video while browsing internet and all that. I think that this feature is pretty useless for a mobile phone and is just a marketing hype.

My points about tablets and laptops and phones was only from a multi-tasking view.

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

Ok, yeah, I gotta admit you're absolutely right there. :)

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

What's on the first post looks more like gadgets than multitasking to me -- like old world Macs. You still need to code the floating "widgets" separately ; they cannot be normal applications. So exactly like DAs in old PalmOS.

In fact, both Android and iOS can do something better which is to run actual applications in windows:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=db2UbDEgzEA

But you are still limited to the usual design limitations of a mostly monotasking environment. You cannot open more than one window from the same application, so no composing of multiple emails, no multiple chat windows, no copying and pasting of word documents...

Garbage.

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

Wait. I thought the n900 was a tablet? A Nokia Internet Tablet? Does that mean it cant be phone?

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

:) :) Yes, by that definition it is a tablet. (Actually, I'm starting to get the feeling that, if the right definition is applied, any random object can be considered a tablet. :) )

But yeah, there are two distinct definitions of tablet running around here, one being the name Nokia gave to its internet tablet line, the other being the current crop of devices that are either iPads or iPad look-alikes. I guess I should be more careful to explicitly state which definition I'm using...

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

I can hardly understand why people are even discussing the term multitasking. The term can not suddenly be redefined because some companies want to use it as a buzzword in their commercials.
If you are backgrounding an application processwise to execute another, you are NOT multitasking the machine, you are rather multitasking the user (well, maybe that's what Mr. Jobs and other fluffy salespeople meant). Its just something you put in your sales pitch.

Its like putting putting beer on the table and call it whisky.

Get a grip here people!
Multitasking is strictly handled by a roundrobin prioritized scheduler, nothing else.
EDIT: As a sidenote, what I mean with prioritized is that the scheduler is able to preempt the execution of a process and let another run. If not, we are talking about what is usually called 'cooperative multitasking', which has its benefits of course when it comes to less complexity in regard to protection of memory and resources.

It all boils down to what audience of users and developers you are targeting, if we are talking about the numbskull java or objective-c developers who hardly have heard the words assembly, mutexes, semaphores or critical sections, you're better off with an OS that backgrounds and sandboxes the applications, with of course the limitation that on application level nothing is executing at the same time. Ok, maybe they can spawn some worker threads in their applications, but it still doesn't do it.

But, I for one like being able to, for instance ssh into my server, starting an application with x11 forwarding, do some video encoding while still be able listening to music, checking mail and make a phone call at the same time.
Please try doing that with a regular phone from the fruit company or a droid, I'd like to see that.

Multitasking for some people mean that you can start more than one application, switch to another while the previous one maintains its state data. That's not multitasking, no matter what you say.

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

You can do that on a droid, just make the sshd server keep a wakelock 24h a day. But since all the Andridiot power management is designed around "being able to suspend as soon as possible and as often as possible" your battery craps itself.

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

I have been happy with "multitasking" in SGS3, for 5 months now.

For example, yesterday I was listening FM radio, while surfing the net with Firefox, playing games (TinyVillage, ModernWar), browsing photos. Also I had sshd running in the background all the time. It just works. I know most of the apps are not running in the background, but I do not care as long the system is highly responsive and I can continue where I left the application last time.

When something really needs to be run in the background, forcing to have a special service thread/process makes sure the developers do not put any battery or RAM wasting code there.

The "real multitasking" makes mobile systems unresponsive sooner or later. Those systems are not suitable for "normal people" and therefore cannot succeed in the ecosystem war.

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

You know, most of the above also applies to Fremantle ;-) The underlying OS is more than capable, but the brilliant "UX designers" typically castrate it.

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

I like the cut of your gib!

Often at work I am SSHd into my n900 doing computer type stuff WHILE using it as a music player and taking calls.

Hell, sometimes I am SSHd into my phone, SSHd into my server, SSHd into my router at home!

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

Yes, you are totally right, and it is one of my complains in Harmattan. This is the reason I think that webOS has actually better multitasking, because their UX designers thought it out a little bit more.

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

Nice video on youtube. You mention that both Andoid and iOS does this but the video is for iOS. Do you know of an equivalent app for Android?

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

Comes stock with e.g. the galaxy note 2.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6c7XaDWmJg

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

Well, I was hoping for something to run on my galaxy note 1...

In regards to multiple emails and such, with overskreen app you can open up multiple window for browsers to access emails. Also for copying and pasting with editor you can copy to clipboard which is saved so you can use in another document. Of the five apps shown in the first post you can open multiple windows with OverSkreen, hovernote, aircalc and stickit. There is another app called airterm which can make multiple floating terminals and I can use to ssh into ubuntu on my GN1). I just opened three of airterm, Overskreen, hovernote, and aircalc simultaneouly. So 12 open windows on my galaxy note screen. And, why not, fired up Angry Birds. My screen looks like a total mess! But I'm multitasking...

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

Please when you are on a call try to take a picture with the purpose of send it by mms and see what it say, I have sgs3 and it lag, crash and slow down of course do limited multitask, if you have a N9 do it you will be very surprise.

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

Can Android phones do this simple thing?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=au1nF...&feature=g-upl

just one (out of many) good true multitasking example.

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

No, not in current state, but I don't miss it either if I want to play in minimize window I use my n900 :) I rather use multi view over this. That's why you should have several devices so you get the best of everything :)

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

The RAM I just ordered for my laptop turned out to be incompatible. For support I used my n900 to start a live support chat in the browser. While I was on the chat I had to look up my order number in an email, and while I was doing that a work call came in (over SIP), that I had to answer. So I was on speakerphone, and copying information from my email into a live chat in the browser.

Honest question, can other smartphones do that? It seems like a fairly basic thing so I'd assume that Android and iPhone shouldn't have a problem with it, but I can also see the browser getting frozen in the background and losing the live chat connection.

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

I can do it on my phone, but I'm not sure about the iPhone. There was a time that you couldnt but that was when I had iOS 3 (?) on the i3G.

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

Good to know. I'm pretty sure the one time I tried to do a Live Chat on an iPhone I wasn't even able to get it to launch, but that was probably on an iPhone 2G.

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

If you really want, you can install IceWM in Maemo5. Your maemo apps will open up in a win95ish window manager with taskbar and a start button and all that. It's actually pretty nice when hooked up to a TV and using bluetooth mouse and keyboard.

(Side note:) This thread does not appear to be about running this in NITDroid. Doesn't it belong in the Competitors forum instead of Alternatives? Can it be moved?

Re: Is this not real multitasking? [Android]
 

I love these threads about multi-tasking.

"REAL" multi-tasking isn't about having a half-dozen applications on screen at once and having the ability to switch from one to the other.
"REAL" multi-tasking is about having a half-dozen applications on screen all doing something simultaneously, just like I used to do on my Commodore Amiga 19 years ago.
I'd have Imagine or Lightwave rendering a scene of objects, Vista Pro rendering the landscape that they are going to sit on, both churning away in the background while I'm working in Personal Paint on the textures that are going to be mapped to the objects.
That's 3 graphically intensive programs all "working" together and nothing sitting idle in the background.

Here's a good way to test muti-tasking on the N900:
Start Bounce Evolution and let the intro animation kick in, then hit Ctrl+Backspace. Now start a video in KMPlayer, enable fullscreen and hit Ctrl+Backspace again and see what happens.