Re: Restructuring the forum
 

Tizen is a must!(if the other OSes gets their own areas, that is) I don't want a device but I want to discuss them.

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

I hate you.

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

He certainly has a point. And i think not just one.

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

Given the amount of maemo devices available for purchase and the number future devices, I think the domain name is perfect to consider any other OS as equal citizen ;)
XDA was also a very specific name about some old device (02 XDA), and it certainly isn't an issue for the other devices targeted by the forum.
So I vote for keeping the domain name (as long as we can).
But I also support the addition of sub forums for the new platforms. If they don't deliver, we don't have much to loose, but if Linux/Qt phones go anywhere, I think we should try to be an important part of it.

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

Why would they come here? I don't see any reason why TMO would become the obvious place for discussion of these platforms. Plasma Active is part of the KDE project. It has sweet FA to do with Maemo. If I wanted to talk mostly about Plasma Active, I would go elsewhere, which is probably what most others will do. I can maybe see more of an argument for Sailfish, but Jolla haven't shown any interest in TMO, and seem to be encouraging people to use XDA.

If talk.maemo.org is to become talk.any_device_with_qt.org, then what is the point of it's existence? This place has a strong identity. It's what separates it from the many other tech forums. I'm not actually against having additional subforums if/when those platforms deliver the goods, but I get annoyed when I see people (not necessarily in this thread) declaring that 'Jolla is the future', and that we should 'leave Maemo behind and move on' (I'm paraphrasing here). As I said in my last post, there were very similar comments regarding MeeGo 18 months ago. People were being encouraged to leave crusty old maemo.org and head over to the shiny new meego.com. That plan didn't work out too well.

I'm just tired of seeing people obsess over what might be coming next when we already have some great devices with a great platform running on them. Shouldn't we be focusing on making those devices the best that they can be, instead of just looking forward to the next shiny?

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

Either you expect them or not - they will come. At least that's what I think, since Mer derivatives never made any collective community forum so far, and Meego forum died (basically). Since Maemo -> Meego -> Mer evolution is known, people would expect to find some relation to this all in this forum. And reasonably so.

Devices which aren't officially sold anymore (or almost not)? You sound elitist saying that one shouldn't care about current developments. I think one should. And don't forget - new users don't necessarily have the same history as you (i.e. some aren't using Maemo or Harmattan). You can stick with Maemo as much as you want - no one is forcing you to suddenly dump it. What's proposed is to enable the forum for discussions about recent platforms and developments as well. You can avoid them if you don't care and to stick to Maemo section. But I see no reason to prevent creating other ones just because some aren't interested yet. Others are and will be.

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

This is getting out of hand. How about one of the admins come and see what they think?

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

Why would people have been saying that. It was well known that the whole thing's longer-term prospects were very shaky, long before the the 1st bridge device (N9) was out.
I don't think many people would've been saying that at all... Sure the occasional uninformed person, but far from the majority.

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

No, these are two different topics.

In one side we have the proposal to include new OS and devices in our forums with their own subsection. Right now there is not enough material about Mer / Sailfish, but it's clear that they will be adopted by some of our members as the new iteration after Meego Harmattan.

Changing the Forums name or domain is a tricky question, that would imply that external references to forum threads wouldn't work. Actually I'm not completely decided what would be my position about this topic.

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

I'd never suggest ditching maemo.org completely, that would be impractical...
All older content could/would still be obtainable via x.maemo.org, if it was decided that domain change was more ideal than site_name or no change.
But yeah, tis all beyond the scope of this thread, and still too early to begin discussing/assessing in depth.

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

...now if this is somewhat realistic, my interest in them is really diminishing. F$^* It seems i really don't get "them". XDA. Pah.
Soooo, let's create the proposed sub-forums, keep the domain name until further time has passed, then re-assess.

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

Yes I pointed that out, but it doesn't mean we can draw sweeping conclusions that they'd prefer XDA to be the hub for "all things Qt Mobile".
Also, I don't blame them for wanting to raise their profile slightly more thanks to XDA...
We just have to become a "better XDA*", one that's a bit more specialised though, at least for starters.

*we already are in some ways, but there's def. a thing or two we can learn from them

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

No problem here... as long as they help to pay the bills :D

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

I don't think it's a problem to retain the domain name as maemo.org (unless you worry about trademark threats from Nokia). As others pointed out, the name doesn't dictate that discussions should be limited to Maemo (as XDA name is also historic and the scope of it is broader). I'm primarily intersted in the other subject - i.e. subsections for open mobile OSes which are missing on TMO already.

It's not like it's purely theoretical. There are already threads about Mer based systems (Nemo Mobile, Jolla/Sailfish and etc.), about Ubuntu mobile and even Firefox OS. They are scattered who knows where - in Meego/Harmattan section, in Alternatives section, in Competitors and even Offtopic section. It can't be called well organized or good approach as is.

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

They liked my post, don't assume they think XDA is better than our forum. I personally hate that place.

http://www.appcheck.net/storage/jolla-xda-fb.png

Some of you seem to be forgetting there are already two domains for this forum. Ever been to www.internettablettalk.com?

There is a blackberry 10 SDK and blackberry 10 apps already. Developers are always interested in blackberry as it's the easiest place to make money (historically).

We don't need to wait until after the migration of whatever other servers is done, adding forums in vbulletin is not more than a few clicks. The sooner we do it the better, people usually stay in one place. Giving them the option of posting here in 6 months is not going to do anything if they're already happy somewhere else.

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

Sailfish OS SDK and Ubuntu Phone OS SDK will be released in 1-2 months. So Maemo/MeeGo developers need ASAP new forum sections to share issues, info, etc, about porting software in Qt/Qt Quick to these new mobile OS.

I follow TMO since late 2009 with my N810. I've read a lot of criticism here against N900 from some Maemo 4 users. Then the same thing (worsed by lack of qwerty physical keyboard) against N9 from some Maemo 4&5 users. Let's not repeat this "shoot our feet" behaviour, please.

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

This thinking and also support new mobile OS are not exclusive if they share a common programming framework, like Qt/Qt Quick within Maemo 5, MeeGo Harmattan, Sailfish and Ubuntu Phone.

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

My proposal -> Add subforums for all of them, keep those that gather some traffic, move the rest to Old/Other. Let the TMO users themselves decide what platforms they care about. :)

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

Creamy Goodness,

Just FYI that Jolla Mobile Facebook page is a fan-group not the official page... The official one is Jolla (Official); see it on jolla.com... ;)

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

But is there enough content to make a sub-forum even worth it? It sounds like the problem you mention above is more about forum moderation: moving threads to the appropriate section.

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

The problem is the unwillingness of moderators to create new sections (or just their lack of time to do it). Moving stuff around irrelevant sections won't make it any better until relevant sections are created. As @Creamy Goodness said, it should take a few clicks. But we can't do it.

Let's make it simpler. Who on the forum has the authority to do it?

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

It's not the answer you want, but isn't "Competitors" or "Alternatives" the right sections?

Alternatives:
Other operating systems powering Maemo compatible devices e.g. Mer, Debian, Android, Ubuntu, Palm (GarnetVM)...

Competitors:
Similar mobile devices shipping with alternative operating systems.

Sometimes I go into Alternatives to read some threads there, but Competitors doesn't interest me. Personally, I don't care if new sections get created, I probably won't read them that often. I like the idea of creating some sections on a "let's see how much traffic they get" basis, but it's always harder to take something away than to not give it in the first place, and there's not much difference between trying it out, or just putting the threads where they belong (Competitors or Alternatives) until there's significant mass and some shipping hardware/software.

I also think it's not a bad idea to wait until migration is FULLY complete and everything is working before making any changes. There are parts of TMO that are still not working as we can see (email).

And as far as authority goes, this is a community site, run by the community. Perhaps some sort of a poll?

If the idea is to make fans/supporters of other systems more welcome here, than specific sections will help accomplish that, imo.

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

Sorry for the OT but is your email still not working? I thought it resumed working 2-4 days ago; if it isn't please report on the service downtime thread. Thanks!

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

@thedead1440: Those sections aren't contained enough and too confusing to match exactly to dedicated OSes. That's why threads appear all around. I still don't get why someone finds a problem in creating dedicated subforums.

I can make a poll - it might be helpful.

[Poll] Restructuring the forum
 

This is a supplementary thread for "Restructuring the forum". Please vote here and continue the main discussion in that thread.

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

Related poll: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=88790

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

So will we have a windows subforum?

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

When did I say anything against adding a section? I was asking shawnjefferson about email not working on TMO... I think you got the wrong idea ;)

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

@thedead1440: Sorry, it was wrong reply :) I meant to address it to shawnjefferson.

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

Who cares about a poll, lets just do this already, some of the layouts suggested are very good/reasonable*, we don't have to spread it too wide/thin for starters.
We can just start with just Maemo 4-6x, the MeR derivatives, & maybe Ubuntu/BBX....
We're not talking about a huge structural change here (at least yet), this is just about ensuring that at least some of the mind-share remains centred at maemo.org.
Ofc if it's too tricky to do at this point in the migration, then ofc lets wait until that passes, that's really only known by those specifically involved in it...

NITdroid, GarnetVM, Debian Chroot etc. could be in "Alternatives", as none are tightly focused/geared around the Qt biosphere like the aforementioned.
Further down the track there could even be a dedicated HTML5 section that has these sub-forums: Tizen, FFOS, OpenWebOS etc, maybe they could start-off in the "Alternatives" section.
But the immediate focus IMO should be around Maemo 4-6x, MeR derivatives, & maybe Ubuntu/BBX, & not just in the forum, it should expand to beyond that eventually.
"Competitors" would be anything not in the main sections/sub-forums or Alternatives: i.e. WP, Android, iOS, BBX (if assessed as not subtle for the other sections), Symbian etc.

*we could also get some ides perhaps from XDA's structure/layout.

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

I really like your "Can do, and will do it NOW" attitude. It's otherwise "all talk and no chalk" here. This keeps things movin', of course you have think things through a bit before actually movin'... ;)

It's not that threads couldn't be moved if deemed neccessary in the future, due to reorganizing again!?

(Seriously, just look how long took it until the 'Concil Elections' banner was exchanged to the 'Donate' banner?!)

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

And why starting a new poll (and thread) when there was one already existing?

Basically, what is discussed here, is covered by points 1-5 in the previous proposal:

1. In section OS / Platform add "Mer / Nemo / Plasma Active / Sailfish" section, and move relevant threads to there. Try to coordinate with people at these projects and encourage them to participate here.
2. Archive section OS2006 / Maemo 2 / Mistral - Scirocco - Gregale
3. Add a section for Nitdroid. Coordinate with Nitdroid guys to move all the stuff from Nitdroid forums here, if they agree.
4. In section Devices merge subsections for Nokia N810/N800/N700. We will create new sections for upcoming devices.
5. The old section might be less visible to avoid clutter in the main page.

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

6. Can application section be splitted in maemo and harmattan?

If application targets both plstforms then go in upper section
Applications
|-Harmattan
|--[ANNOUNCE N9]
|-fremantle
|--[ANNOUNCE N900]
|-[ANNOUNCE both]

Just a proposal and regarding other subforums. I dont think other devices except for maemo devices deserve so much diiferent sectionsnas the maemo devices. So IMO mer should be have a subforum in competitors, alternatives or whatever, but it should NOT have its own development, application forum. The main focus should be Maemo and maemo only, IMO.

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

IMO each major sub-forum (within each section e.g: maemo, mer, alternative, competitors) should just have it's own "Applications" sub-forum.
But you should be able to add "tags" for more than just the sub-forum you're posting in, so that (if necessary) it can appear in more than one at once.
No idea if that sort of thing is possible with VBulletin though...

Maemo has no future*, do you know of any new Maemo devices coming out this year?
There's one nextgen Qt mobile device coming out this yr, possibly more, within 18mth there'll definitely be at least 3, & that's not even including BBX or the HTML5-centric platforms.
If Hildon is to be a strong entity 2yrs from now, it needs to embrace more than just Maemo 4-6x.
It needs to do so fully not half-heartedly, & it needs to do so soon, before other sites become the "go to" place.

*except amongst a minuscule & hard-core group of well-informed enthusiasts

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

So what are you saying, jump on the android/iOS bandwagon just to be relevant?

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

Maybe even do away with devices section entirely (archive), only have:
N.B. Title = Section * = Sub-forum

Maemo OS
*Maemo 4x
*Maemo 5x (freemantle)
*Maemo 6x (meego-harmattan)

MeR-based OS
*Nemo
*Sailfish
*Plasma Active

Ubuntu (maybe, YTBD)
*Ubuntu

BBX (maybe, YTBD)
*BBX

Alternatives (a better, more descriptive, title needed)
*NITdroid
(following could maybe be moved to their own HTML5-based OS section eventually, but possibly not for approx. 1yr)
*Tizen
*FFOS
*OpenWebOS
(maybe the following under a sub-heading?)
*GarnetVM
*Debian Chroot
*WebOS games emulation layer (name escapes me)
*etc.

Competitors (WP, Android, iOS, BBX(maybe), Symbian etc)
We could have sub-forums, or just keep as is, with threads only?

Buying & Selling
*Buying
*Selling

Perhaps we could have a prefix (tags kinda) that one must chose from in a drop-down list?
So if you're in the Sailfish sub-forum & you're starting a new thread, you'd have to chose from:
Jolla or N900 or N9/950 & devchat or end-user & apps or OS/core_apps etc.*
This would either plonk the thread in a further sub-forum under Sailfish, or perhaps just tag it.
So that, depending on what filtering you've chosen, it will/won't appear in the Sailfish sub-forum.
The same or similar methodology could be applied for ALL the sub-forums, not sure if VBulletin has that kind of utility.

*It could default to something from each of those sections, or it could require that you get it right from the outset.
Ideally it'd be retrospectively amendable....

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

Keep the devices sections so that when for example the Jolla phone releases it can have its own section while any Sailfish for N9(00) would be in the N9(00) sections instead of crowding the OS section...

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

I was elected to lead, not to read!

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

I agree with jalyst - each OS subsection should have devices/applications etc. subcategories. Since devices discussions are usually not purely hardware related, but most often are tied to particular OS running on that device.

@ivgalvez: This poll only adds to the one you started before, and they show the same thing - subforums for new OSes are needed. Now it's up to the actual moderators of the forum to create them.

Re: Restructuring the forum
 

There is also the issue related to number of threads. If we adding lots of subs we will automatically get several threads. Let's say you have an app forking for 4 os. Expect 4 threads... Is that what we want?