Re: [Council] Community Thoughts About Board Reelection
 

Hey Jim.

There is nothing more to add to the posts after yours.
Really awaiting your letter and your intentions.


Welcome aboard.

Re: [Council] Community Thoughts About Board Reelection
 

But it seems a bit late.....

Re: [Council] Community Thoughts About Board Reelection
 

Great. Which mailing list?

Love the implication that I didn't. Invalid.

Not interested in a pissing contest about your resume. Being a programmer does not make you unique or even naturally qualified to operate an NFP. The fact that you don't point to your work on other foundations, but instead some vaguery about unrelated skills, does not engender confidence or validate the tone you've taken. The Hildon Foundation needs people who understand the issues that the maemo community faces.

Not "directors." One "director." One unelected "director." Nobody can figure out why he does what he does, which is a huge part of the problem. The fact that SD69 thought that some pseudorandom dude on some mailing list was a good plan shows more about his failure as a director than it does about your motives. Your passive-aggressive jab about your assumptions regarding nobody else 'stepping up,' when we've been demanding an election for a while now, doesn't sound promising. I look forward to a first-hand account of why you assume that your presence on the board is the great boon you seem to assume it will be.

Re: [Council] Community Thoughts About Board Reelection
 

What about THP? I point him to the election.

Re: [Council] Community Thoughts About Board Reelection
 

This would be an absolutely sound and reasonable consideration. It however implies that whoever acts in HiFo on behalf of community to do some technical the slightest stuff (and yes that even includes contracts with Nokia), would pull in, ask, and listen to those technically savvy people we have such abundance of. Actually I don't see this happen, despite several complaints from council.

/jOERG
(COUNCILOR)

Re: [Council] Community Thoughts About Board Reelection
 

I get that. But your words and tone here have left many thinking you're looking to move in a different direction. I know that wasn't your intent, but it was in fact how people interpreted it. I'm not saying this to accuse, but to inform.

I agree that a long term goal includes the eventual need to reach out and expand the community to new options as the community shifts toward them (much like tablettalk did before becoming TMO). Doing some of that preemptively, like the conversation we had with Jolla or adding a subforum for something new isn't a bad idea. But we should not do so instead of (or at the expense of) the tasks that are needed in the present.

Right now we have existing issues that we must resolve. We have incomplete business with Nokia and others, and need to resolve those items quickly.

Looking forward is great, but if we do so at the cost of losing the existing community in the present, then it's all for not. Just as it's wrong to focus myopically on the distant past, it's also wrong to focus only on the far future. We need to consider both of them, and the present, in order to survive both short and long term.

Re: [Council] Community Thoughts About Board Reelection
 

I think it would be a good idea to ensure that there are at least two elected members (of the three, or else a majority) on the board who are elected from the community.

Re: [Council] Community Thoughts About Board Reelection
 

for those who haven't noticed: Jim posted his letter of introduction at http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=89438

/j

Re: [Council] Community Thoughts About Board Reelection
 

I think you mean here :)
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=89438

Re: [Council] Community Thoughts About Board Reelection
 

A newbie post: speaking clearly i would like to see 2 elected and jim :)in this awkard crossfingerpointing situation for hifo i think elected members are abssoltttely necEssary to maintain a community like a community they as they will be naturally more concerned in it wheras a experienced aliean may have the power to steer it in the right direction thats dierly needed......i would suggest buy more time for election in this traumatic situation that will surely step up the community:)

Re: [Council] Community Thoughts About Board Reelection
 

just that HiFo isn't exactly about steering. Any "direction" been already taken by those who inventend/developed mer and meego and nitdroid and cordia and... you name it. HiFo doesn't have anything it could steer anywhere to, it's about keeping maemo alive as it is. Making friends with those who spawned all those projects based on maemo doesn't hurt but still is not exactly a new perspective for maemo. Everything of maemo that HiFo is allowed to offer (and that actually makes sense to use) got already migrated to those successor projects. You maybe think HiFo will inherit the sourcecode of the closed blobs - no, Nokia will not hand out those sources, neither to HiFo nor to anybody else. And HiFo doesn't have any developer manpower at hand they could allocate to any project.

So: nothing to steer.

Re: [Council] Community Thoughts About Board Reelection
 

That's your perspective, personally I don't think it's correct to rule-out completely, things that may or may not happen longer-term.
No doubt there's things to consider, or ways it could evolve, (longer-term) to maintain relevance/vibrancy...

Re: [Council] Community Thoughts About Board Reelection
 

I honestly would like to know which are those things that may or may not happen. Anyway I don't think I ruled out anything except the absolutely unlikely case that Nokia would hand out sourcecode for the blobs in a year or two. So HiFo simply doesn't own nor even possess anything they could "steer". And founders of HiFo been aware of this and designed HiFo accordingly - it's not even meant to steer anything since there is nothing to steer (except those in community (usually not developers themselves) who think there should be an emperor instructing everybody (particularly developers) what to do, something that will never work in a FOSS community) And that's what my post is all about.

Re: [Council] Community Thoughts About Board Reelection
 

If you think of things purely from a Maemo 4x-6x code perspective then sure, of course there's little to steer.

W.T.F?

thedead1440/joerg_rw, no thanks for me, where's the love guys? jk :D

EDIT: thanks thedead1440

Re: [Council] Community Thoughts About Board Reelection
 

Absolute rubbish.

We now have $7000 of server hardware. We will soon have maemo.org, the maemo trademarks, the maemo website, the maemo infrastructure, and as much of the maemo software as possible.

This is possible only because HiFo exists. If HiFo didn't exist, we wouldn't even be able to read this message now.

The people who founded and began to run HiFo Board are friends, and on the same side as the community - but you can't see that, you go around repeatedly insulting and calling names like "emperor" instead. Negative politics suck. The people who founded Hildon Foundation and worked to save maemo when other people did not (including the name callers) deserve to be treated better.

Re: [Council] Community Thoughts About Board Reelection
 

Oh dear... what did I do... :D
Please can we go back to singing Kumbayah, why are those warm/fuzzy times always so fleeting :(

Re: [Council] Community Thoughts About Board Reelection
 

We shall overcome

Re: [Council] Community Thoughts About Board Reelection
 

exactly this:) make a sticky thread link on talk homepage abot infastructure aim possibilites etc etc so that newcomers third partys etc can know abot hifo what is it why they need it .this will have a general overview of maemo as all info is scatterd and is a absolute mess:) hifo isint just another 4m its something apart:)

Re: [Council] Community Thoughts About Board Reelection
 

Thanks for clarifying this. Now WTF is then the role of the Hildon Foundation, besides declaring itself as not attached to Maemo(.org).

Why have TMO members donated money to a "foundation" whose only director now declares the foundation as unrelated to Maemo?

I don't like the tone of this. AFAIK the only reason for a "foundation" with some sort of a pseudo-legal status was so that Nokia would transfer the ownership of the fvcking maemo.org domain name. No more, no less.

Re: [Council] Community Thoughts About Board Reelection
 

Ah please. Could you just shut up if you have nothing to say?
Thank you.

Re: [Council] Community Thoughts About Board Reelection
 

I don't believe he said anything of the sort, you seem to be misconstruing what he said.
You seem to be confused, perhaps you should review the dozen or so epic threads that outlined what HF encompassed.

Re: [Council] Community Thoughts About Board Reelection
 

Rob, take your pills, then reread what I wrote. How you can make an insult out of me quoting some inspecific sort of people thinking there should be an emperor is **absolutely** beyond me.
:mad::mad::eek:

also, I don't exactly get it what you hope to "steer" with that server?

Re: [Council] Community Thoughts About Board Reelection
 

TBH, it was kind of a weird/non-helpful sentence, even if it really wasn't directed at him....
Why even make it in the 1st place, is that how you genuinely perceive some people, do you honestly think it's justified/accurate, why? Honest Qn.

Re: [Council] Community Thoughts About Board Reelection
 

Ok, I'm forming my own alliens at TMO. Good luck with your election and your atittude.

Re: [Council] Community Thoughts About Board Reelection
 

I will follow you Dave, the community will surely survive with your fearless leadership :)

Re: [Council] Community Thoughts About Board Reelection
 

@jalyst

Well, more often than I'd like I encounter users/drive-by-commenters that suggest "the community should be guided to do this or do that" - usually the demands are specific like "council should tell (CSSU) developers to port maemo to XY" or similar. I honestly wonder what those guys are thinking and what I should think about them. Anyway those guys are the only ones that honestly suggest that any maemo entity like HiFo or council should "steer" something. So I guess it's fair to assume it would be first and foremost those guys that needs steering, if we would do any such thing like steering the community (maybe we got a definition problem here: when I say "maemo" I mean the community and maybe the OS. For sure I don't mean peripheral stuff like an infra. Maybe others do exactly that: maemo=the-website). Usually those guys asking for council/HiFo doing "steering maemo" also don't get it when I try to explain to them that council is community's ambassadors, not their leaders. Same applies for HiFo which are more like community's stewards, but also not leaders.
How Rob got mad about this comment about a particular kind of people "in community" is honestly beyond me. What I understand however is him accusing me for namecalling while same time he calls my posts "rubbish" and judges on what I get or don't get, based on unrelated statements that are really completely unlinked to what I wrote. Or did I say "HiFo is useless"???

:baffled:

/j

[edit]
[quote jalyst] ...I don't believe he said anything of the sort, you seem to be misconstruing what he said.[/quote]
he's not the only one: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...9&postcount=25 [quote Woody] You've worded it poorly enough that community ablaze, screaming about HiFo separating from the community[/quote]

Re: [Council] Community Thoughts About Board Reelection
 

What is alliens? That word is not in my dictionary..... :confused:

Re: [Council] Community Thoughts About Board Reelection
 

This is much clearer, it helps remove confusion & find some common ground, there's no 100% right way on how to take things forward (except for the more technical/immediate migration related stuff ofc), everyone needs to be prepared to hear everyone out, & appreciate the merits of one another's views. This is especially important for the Council & BoD, & they in turn need to reach out to their constituents, & not just the same old hardcore clique. Council/BoD has to go out of it's way to ensure that the entire community's well aware of what's happening, + give it time to digest & offer feed-back. All of this is mostly done in my estimation, & usually done pretty well, ofc there's always room for improvement, & everyone's fallible, but that's what we should always strive for. We must also never forget that all of us want a community that's healthy/vibrant, even 7yrs from now, we may disagree on how we go about that, but ultimately our end goal is the same.

Anyway, I genuinely wish everyone well on that ride, I've decided to back away completely from the community for approx. 7mths, simply too much going on IRL. I really admire those who are able to sufficiently time manage themselves so that they can give back, big respect to everyone who does that, whether it be as a developer or some other way. This should be my last post, so if anyone sees me posting again, please do chastise me for having no will power! :)

Adios.

Well that's hardly declaring that the foundation now does nothing in the interests of Maemo xx-6x, which is what Reinob's post implied.
Seems to be little more than a "storm in a tea-cup", which (sadly) is a holding pattern this community often gets itself into.

Re: [Council] Community Thoughts About Board Reelection
 

I'm sorry. I mean Alliance of cource.

I'm forming if you need any help in the future:

http://beautifultrouble.org/wp-conte...go-770x471.png

Re: [Council] Community Thoughts About Board Reelection
 

Thank you Dave, now I understand what you meant.

I think it is very important that we use the rigths words to prevent misunderstanding. It is easier for people who are native English speakers to understand misspellings than it is for us who have it as a second language.

Re: [Council] Community Thoughts About Board Reelection
 

To be honest, I neither had nor I have now any particular interest in what the foundation is for or in what it does exactly.

My interest is in Maemo and in the N900, and most importantly in their interesection. If Nokia apparently *required* some sort of legal entity in order to transfer ownership of the domain name, then I obviously agree(d) that a foundation was necessary.

Now I still have not heard or read a single argument besides the DNS transfer that would "convince" me that a foundation is necessary.

If I was a foundation member or director or whatever-you-call-it I would focus on DNS and then declare the foundation as unnecessary, as long as no other raison d'être has been identified or shows up at some point.

Hence my disappointment with the foundation, and in particular with its sole member, Rob, who, based merely on his written words (as I don't know him personally), seems to have a bigger, "master", plan for this so-called foundation.

This I find contrary to the spirit of the foundation as well as to the expectations of the community. And by community I mean the people involved in maemo.org.

Given that the foundation was appropriately *not* named Maemo foundation, I suggest that once the maemo.org DNS entries point to the new server, the foundation can disjoin itself from its original goal and pursue other, perhaps grander, ambitions unrelated to Maemo and to maemo.org.

There is obviously a non-zero probability that *I* am missing something here. I would thus appreciate it if other *maemo-relevant* functions of the foundation, that is besides the DNS transfer, could be enumerated, perhaps in this very thread.

Thank you. And sorry for the long post.

Re: [Council] Community Thoughts About Board Reelection
 

thanked for good summary of the whole situation, though this goes pretty much OT for the thread's topic meanwhile. i'm not going to provide that enumeration of HiFo tasks now, just one note: there's more to HiFo than just DNS/domain. Particularly Nokia's permission to deploy their blobs, and generally taking care for other virtual (user base) and material (server iron) assets.
I obviously concur - like most others who posted here, incl BoD and HiFo co-founder Woody, GeneralAntilles, Jaffa, complete council - about demur regarding "master plan" in HiFo though.
IF there were any place for master plans, then that would be council, and those master plans had to be based on careful evaluation of what community asks for, even including referendum if needed. Not even in council (which been voted for roughly those duties like concentrating and coordinating community's thoughts, plans and projects) there is room for any of its members developing and pursuing *own* master plans based on own solitary considerations.

cheers
/j

Re: [Council] Community Thoughts About Board Reelection
 

Sigh... must, resist, temptation... must, fight it... Good-bye.

Re: [Council] Community Thoughts About Board Reelection
 

As a end user interested in long living maemo and this Community I do not like the whole behind the scenes mystery. As I see it things are simple so there is no need for this chit chat about HiFo this HiFo that. As someone before stated - HiFo was supposed to save the domain and data for users left behind by Nokia puling the plug. Let's just do it and move one with the goodies provided by developers. As this is supposed to be an open community I would like to have everything crystal clear and transparent. Since a few months I can only read that the HiFo people did a huge work. What work? Could someone clarify? Huge work is when you dig a 100m long canal for boats with a shovel. As I see it the work is done by the community, developers and people from Comunity Councile and others involved.

The most terrifying thing is that people who should be with HiFo are stepping down, there are no elections etc. Why did the Board members started their work first place? What were they thinking? What are the reasons to step down? What has changed since day on of their HiFo work, vision so they step down?

The whole thing builds an impression that something is not going as supposed and starts some conspiracy theories probably not only in my head ;)

Re: [Council] Community Thoughts About Board Reelection
 

Its degrading :( find a oem hire devlopers create maemo 10 thats it:)

Re: [Council] Community Thoughts About Board Reelection
 

i won't go as far as Jaylist and pull out completely but...
my impulse a few weeks ago was to volunteer to help set up and maintain the Maemo.org infrastructure. after all, i earn a living doing this and until a few months ago was practically daily on TMO, so why not?
after yesterday's Council meeting (IRC log of #maemo-meeting for Friday, 2013-03-15) i got to the conclusion that... that i'll use my N900 as long as it lasts.
if the public repos go down (thus MO disappears) i have a download of most packages & can built myself a local repo that will easily fit onto a 64GB µSD :D
and even distribute it as a torrent...
i also have a few copies of the ROMs lying around, so basically...

hasta la vista, babies... 8-X
(i may be back ¦-)))))))
:|

Re: [Council] Community Thoughts About Board Reelection
 

That seems a shame, meetings are bound to have disagreements. Especially when people feel strongly about a topic. Remember people who are in Council are representing the community on community issues. If you don't stand up your voice will not be heard.

I don't see any reason why you should let one meeting put you off. However many could agrue, if you feel this way your not the right person for volunteering. ;)

Re: [Council] Community Thoughts About Board Reelection
 

it wasn't the differences that put me off.
it is the fact that Woody, no matter that he is currently one of the most dedicated member of the Community, is perfectly unable to admit that he did or said something wrong.
or, even worth, that someone may have a different opinion then his own.

that's definitely not someone i want to work with leave alone entrust my money to, no f#ing way...

again, it doesn't matter that right now he seems to do the right thing(s); soon or later, and i sincerely hope it will be later, he is bound to make a mistake or adopt a stance that is not in the community's best interest.
even though on TMO his tactic is always that of the pachyderm, simply ignoring any question implying critic or criticism and going on posting the same gnagna over and over and over again until the critic tires away, in a Council, Board of Directors or even in a public meeting, that's an unacceptable behaviour.
in a government, that amounts pretty much to deporting ppl.
@ best...

Friday's meeting was a painful illustration of that.

Re: [Council] Community Thoughts About Board Reelection
 

Typical...

http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...&postcount=114

Re: [Council] Community Thoughts About Board Reelection
 

Good shot but I think you missed the target as well as the intention.