Re: What is wrong with Jolla?
 

No we are more join Apple. Keep your friends close but you enemies closer ;)

Re: What is wrong with Jolla?
 

I ment this as a reminder that we should not try to draw the fences to high and learn from what others already have been trough without judging them for "attitudes".

Re: What is wrong with Jolla?
 

So whom to blame?

Aliens, Greece or just bad luck :confused:

Re: What is wrong with Jolla?
 

This is true. NIH-syndrome is an ugly thing.

Re: What is wrong with Jolla?
 

Re: What is wrong with Jolla?
 

How about... oneself?

(Which in this case unfortunately means, Holy, Omniscient, Untouchable, Irreproachable, Faultless Jolla, my friends.)

Re: What is wrong with Jolla?
 

Can you not make a phone which satisfies mainstream users and hackers alike?

Imagine an N9/Jolla complete with polished/complete core UI, an appstore with loads of native apps, an enthused base of Qt/QML developers, and a security/sandbox model done right. Now make a keyboard version of the same hardware, where the system UI all goes landscape and you don't feel like a 2nd-class citizen (release very similar HWKB and Touch models side-by-side every hardware iteration). Make sure the security system can give you full access when you have dev mode installed. Make sure there's an X server and an overly-complicated terminal app. Done?

Re: What is wrong with Jolla?
 

Hmm. Images float into my mind...

Enthusiastic developer: "You've gotta open up or get rid of this sandboxing thing! It's stopping us from doing great things on this platform!" (example)

Big-name app developer: "I'm not going to develop for your device until you support Java / Objective C. We've already invested too much in our current programming language to switch over to Qt."

Confused user: "I enabled the 1337 haxor mode on your phone the way that my friend told me, and now it doesn't work. I hate you! I want a refund now!"

Big-business IT guy: "I'd love to support your phone in our network, I really would, but it's just too easy for hackers to use that dev-mode and gain access to our secure data. Yes, yes, I know that iPhones can be jailbroken, and that Android phones can be rooted. I don't care. I still think they are safer than your device is."

I just don't really think these two views of the world should be combined into a single product. Bad things are likely to happen. ;)

Re: What is wrong with Jolla?
 

That's right. Jolla failed because it tried to make a mass-market consumer smartphone. As long as it continues to do that, it will continue to fail. There is not the slightest chance that they will displace Android for a significant part of the mainstream smartphone market. Their only chance is to make a genuinely different product that does not compete directly with Android, Apple, Microsoft or Blackberry AT ALL.

Re: What is wrong with Jolla?
 

If Jolla manage to compensate backers I don't see Jolla as a failure. To me it has nothing to do with numbers.

Re: What is wrong with Jolla?
 

If they want to have more people get their phone, then they need to make it work on more frequencies.
Even the N9 works in the US but was not released there. Because the N9 has all 5 bands for 3g, but the Jolla phone does not.

Re: What is wrong with Jolla?
 

That's not exactly what I'm trying to say. :) And, in fact, I think Jolla still has quite a good chance of achieving a successful mass-market consumer phone OS; they've identified areas where Apple / Google are weak (BRICS localization, security, America-based centralization with all the various ways that can be corrupted). They've created a pretty and user-friendly UI on top of a powerful mobile OS infrastructure. There's no reason why they couldn't actually gain some market share with what they've produced.

What I'm trying to say is that Sailfish could not be produced by the open source community. Open source coders are not going to donate huge portions of their lifespan supporting a UI built for novice users, because open source coders are naturally themselves not novice users. The most obvious way to create a situation where a person writes code that will be used mainly by other people is to offer that person something in exchange; in particular, money.

Thus, I reason that a user-friendly UI (as defined in the way that Apple and Google define user-friendly -- that is, usable by technical novices) is best produced in the private sector, by closed-source means.

Re: What is wrong with Jolla?
 

You'd think the moment an alternative to Apple/Google would come out, folks would buy it... instead, they seem to be quick to disprove of whatever is offered and want to walk away quickly.

Re: What is wrong with Jolla?
 

i dont think even jolla deserve a place at here then

Re: What is wrong with Jolla?
 

The main problem for Jolla focuses on two things:
1: Economic model: what did they try to do to earn a stable continuous amount of income? Advertisements? Subscriptions fees? A steady flow of new devices with the manufacturers paying a fee per device for Sailfish?
If you don't get it right to have a stable income...well, that just ends all. Period. There's no debating about that.
I think Jolla should let their contributors pay a small subscription fee for the updates. Let's say somewehere around €5 per month or less.

2: open source, but not regarding to news. I've read big issues on several channels, but not from Jolla itself. Do they have to hide something? I've asked many times for the stock internet browser to have the option to change the user-agent (a base feature for a mobile browser), without any response. "No, it's not possible", or "No, it's not our focus now" is a response, rather than no response. Jolla, talk please!

Re: What is wrong with Jolla?
 

mistake ?
right answer is ipill

Re: What is wrong with Jolla?
 

Because there is huge difference between something new(when android and iphone came out) and alternative to already mature and strong player in existing segment. To challenge them you need not only offer what they have but add something that they have to get users from their side to yours. And if you don't have that you at least should build strong community starting with existing supporters and not scary them and use them as just resources.

Re: What is wrong with Jolla?
 

You're sort of right Copernicus but for the wrong reasons.

It's rare that the open source community attracts user interface designers of any worth. Often it's the same programmers working on the back end code that do the front end and what a programmer will put up with as a UI is often miles away from a user. Often it's a reflection on the underlying function and they've not thought about how a user interacts first and this is where Apple usually wins. Eg. A programmer coding a map application would have just slapped a +/- zoom button on, Apple came up with pinch to zoom.

The UI you get is therefore often self selecting in the open source community. You'll get 1000 programmers remaking Windows XP because that is easy and it suffices.

It'll be interesting to see where Sailfish now goes without a designer.

Re: What is wrong with Jolla?
 

Immigrants? ;)
Just kidding. Most people would call me an immigrant too.:D

Edit: Added Dave's quote which was left out.

Re: What is wrong with Jolla?
 

Guys.... Will Jolla return back to their position after the big disaster?
Some people say yes, some say no......

I think it's time for all of us to take the red pill...

https://i.imgflip.com/w72gk.jpg

Fremantle was/is perfect for tablets, Harmattan for phones.

Re: What is wrong with Jolla?
 

just another troll from a teenager who probably has no clue about business. It always good whining about no open sourcle blablabla. Why the f... is there no one intrested in working with plasma mobile or Nemo mobile then!?!?!

Instead cry at Jolla not open source. Sorry guys but open source SFOS does not help Jolla in any way. Only Stallman fanatics do think that is the solution!

Re: What is wrong with Jolla?
 

Even Stallman doesn't think free/open source software is a good business decision - he thinks it is morally the right thing to do.

Re: What is wrong with Jolla?
 

I have played with this, and it is great! Did not find it as sensitive as the n900 resistive screen but it was a great leap for capacitive touch.

As for Jolla, I am still waiting for the tablet? Yeah, still waiting. Hoping to see a round of shipments before another sailfish update that we know will not update the browser copy and paste issue!

Re: What is wrong with Jolla?
 

Personal computing devices were a mistake, mainframes are the answer!

Re: What is wrong with Jolla?
 

Nobody panic, we have a blog post from Jolla promising that the finance is ok and also a promise that a new Jolla phone is on the way, a promise that the india thingy will be done and a promise that they will talk about the tabletgate soon. So everything will be ok. SOON. They must already be packing up the tablets with a complimentary jPhone2 to be sent to everyone at tmo.

Re: What is wrong with Jolla?
 

well, no. A very BIG NO.

Re: What is wrong with Jolla?
 

[SARCASM]
[/SARCASM]

It seems your post was missing some TAGS, put them there for you!

Re: What is wrong with Jolla?
 

Better [SOON] ... [/SOON] tags.

Re: What is wrong with Jolla?
 

people - say whatever you say curse whatever you want
but not the india thing or specifically the whole brics thing.
India is a good market and has serious potential in terms of new devices .
so even a little more succes will actually help them and intex has been selling usable phones for some time and has presence in brick & mortar stores individualy owned small shops in remoter parts too and they got service centers that provide acceptable service as i have delt with them .
also rural-ish people who have no clue about software hardware are a large part of the customers and frankly they dont care much . its like good if they can make it work somehow and bad if it dosent work .they are the ones who basicaly buy something by asking a fellow or its generally the shopkeeper who helps the customer buy his phone

only thing i dont know is why i want a jolla and not something else ? do you ;)
i mean what advantage a intex jolla provides in any frontier.

Re: What is wrong with Jolla?
 

That's why we have all this "cloud" stuff these days. You will be back to a dumb terminal perhaps a mobile one ;)

Re: What is wrong with Jolla?
 

Exactly. Particularly annoying with navigation solutions. That is one thing you definitely want to be stand-alone. You have a tool in your pocket 10x more powerful than what you had on your desk 10 years ago. So why on earth are almost all navigation solutions cloud based?

Re: What is wrong with Jolla?
 

Exactly. THIS is the big question and THIS is where Jolla needs to put all their focus if they want to succeed in any meaningful way. As of now, they are just Yet Another Mobile Platform™. They really need to work harder on selling themselves. What is the main attraction? Why should anyone buy them and not another Android, for example?

Re: What is wrong with Jolla?
 

Because this is the solution for realtime information. You need a point to sync it between peers (look for example at waze which is the best car navigation with realtime updates of heavy traffic and works and everything on the road) . There is possibility to make decentralize thing, but information exchange and being online is extra plus and step forward. The problem is that you can't trust proprietary solution as you do not know what information they get and what they do with it :/ So it's basically where comfort of solution is so high that you give up the privacy is where they win. That's why I say there is no need on other closed OS.If they use linux as base and use FOSS, doesn't mean we can trust them 100%

Re: What is wrong with Jolla?
 

[OT]I don't know about you but I have to pay for a onnection. Plus, of course, the idea of a mobile navigation is to get you around an unfamiliar terrain, where you are not even guaranteed to have a connection. Or where the connection is bloody expensive, such as when roaming. All of these speak for an offline solution. Things like realtime updates are a nice convenience but they should be optional, not an excuse to force me to go all out online.[/OT]

Re: What is wrong with Jolla?
 

i have to agree, even if i dont like it. Nemo Mobile's paypal account for collect something for helping developers do their job is still at 0.00...before that account was created someone was complaining about the fact it wasnt possible to donate with paypal. Now, that account has been created, nothing has changed.
So i am slowly convincing myself, just a noob of FOSS, that pretending and claiming for Open Source and shouting its philosophy is just an excuse to take everything you want without giving anything back. sorry for my bitter words, but i am too much sincere, i guess

Re: What is wrong with Jolla?
 

This is unfortunately true, at least to some extent.

However, I still believe that partly open sourcing, or dual/triple licensing Sailfish OS could be a wise move. Nemo and Mer are a bit far from functional product people use every day so it's no wonder there is limited interest in them even if effort put into them also benefits Sailfish. Mere licensing change won't cut it though, there would need to be an infrastructure and processes to support co-development, accepting patches, documentation etc. And of course there is the hurdle with some parts being kept out of public (in regard to future products, etc). But still, IMO it would be the best way, now that the foundation and UI is more or less solid.

Re: What is wrong with Jolla?
 

If you are referring to me I am still waiting for a bitcoin alternative since I am boycotting Paypal due to their treatment of wikileaks. Besides that I agree that it is sad that there so little interest in supporting Mer/Nemo.

Re: What is wrong with Jolla?
 

No, i wasnt referring to anyone in particular since i really didnt remember who was and i am not interested to it. it was a general statement. I really dont want to blame anyone, was just a thought

Re: What is wrong with Jolla?
 

@taelc however i have an account for bitcoin, but i really dont know so much of how it works, can i ask you something about it in PM??
i agree that paypal is to blame for the behaviour that have had with WL...but just like Visa,mastercard....and we haven't been boycotting those ones. they are ****ing bast*rds