maemo.org - Talk - Let's talk Nokia stock!

maemo.org - Talk (https://talk.maemo.org/index.php)

- Off Topic (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=19)

- - Let's talk Nokia stock! (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=56370)

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lumiaman (Post 1240986)

The US market is very important. Its the most competitive market and there is no room for error and crappy phones. Nokia shunned the US because it was complacent to sell inferior phones elsewhere . World has become a global community and you people everywhere demand the best product. Nokia cant sell suboptimal devices anymore. If they gather significant share in the US , they will do elsewhere too. That is why the US market is so important .

This post seems to stem from your own inate sense of cultural superiority rather than any logic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lumiaman (Post 1240986)

We have a lot of symbian apologists here.

I don't see any need to apologise for Symbian, whilst Symbian was NOKIA's primary platform they towered over the opposition. Maybe not in the US but most everywhere else on the globe. Now even tech sites like ZDNet and betanews are questioning whether NOKIA should back pedal.

For me it was obvious from day 1 WP7 wasn't ready to compete in advanced markets like Asia and Europe and it's hardware requirements would also make devices too expensive for other strong NOKIA markets like India and Africa.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lumiaman (Post 1240990)

Nothing outsells iphone. IPhone is a single phone while Android powers many.

It used to be 'Android has many manufacturers' until Samsung overtook Apple, now it's 'Android powers many models'. Now in some markets, like here in the UK, just one of Samsung's many Android phones, the Galaxy S3, now outsells the iPhone on its own.

Quote:

Originally Posted by specc (Post 1241040)

But no matter how good Nokia+Symbian was, it was never a mass marked product, and was not marketed as a mass market product, at least not before 2007. After 2007 it became a mass market product, but it wasn't a good enough mass market product, it had no chance against Android and iPhone. As an enthusiast toy though, Symbian devices still are top of the line with the 808.

Symbian's installed base is still around 300 million, Android has only recently overtaken that and iOS is still miles behind.

Symbian competed very well with Android and iOS, as it proved coming out on top quarter after after quarter right up until it was deprecated. Sure NOKIA had market share erosion but there was no evidence to suggest an imminent nose-dive and crash.

Furthermore Samsung, HTC, LG, Motorola, Sony and others do make some extremely nice hardware, even NOKIA's market share erosion was not necessarily directly attributable to Android v Symbian.

Devices like the 5230 and 5800 were solid and good value rather than exciting. We had to wait quite a while for the N8 to pitch up and even that had rather modest hardware (camera excepted) compared to other devices hitting the market at the time.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lumiaman (Post 1241305)

The OS needs to be as smooth as ios or WP. None of the nokia devices had it. There is no room for imperfection in today's markets as the bar has been set high. Nokia hardware is great but software inferior, hence WP.

Android is not as 'smooth' as iOS (or WP7?) yet it continues to massively outsell both. Maybe power, functionality and freedom are more important than you appreciate.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!

Quote:

Originally Posted by switch-hitter (Post 1241324)

This post seems to stem from your own inate sense of cultural superiority rather than any logic.

I don't see any need to apologise for Symbian, whilst Symbian was NOKIA's primary platform they towered over the opposition. Maybe not in the US but most everywhere else on the globe. Now even tech sites like ZDNet and betanews are questioning whether NOKIA should back pedal.

For me it was obvious from day 1 WP7 wasn't ready to compete in advanced markets like Asia and Europe and it's hardware requirements would also make devices too expensive for other strong NOKIA markets like India and Africa.

It used to be 'Android has many manufacturers' until Samsung overtook Apple, now it's 'Android powers many models'. Now in some markets, like here in the UK, just one of Samsung's many Android phones, the Galaxy S3, now outsells the iPhone on its own.

Symbian's installed base is still around 300 million, Android has only recently overtaken that and iOS is still miles behind.

Symbian competed very well with Android and iOS, as it proved coming out on top quarter after after quarter right up until it was deprecated. Sure NOKIA had market share erosion but there was no evidence to suggest an imminent nose-dive and crash.

Furthermore Samsung, HTC, LG, Motorola, Sony and others do make some extremely nice hardware, even NOKIA's market share erosion was not necessarily directly attributable to Android v Symbian.

Devices like the 5230 and 5800 were solid and good value rather than exciting. We had to wait quite a while for the N8 to pitch up and even that had rather modest hardware (camera excepted) compared to other devices hitting the market at the time.

The sad part is that Symbian was NOT competing. It was simply being displaced by overwhelmingly superior forces. Pre-Elop nokians simply slashed prices to give it a little more life. It was a matter of time before Symbian, dead as soon as iPhone was produced and Android copycats, and unable in 5 years to even come close to android and iOS , was going to perish. I was a big Nokia supporter but even before iPhone showed up it was clear that their software writing skills were suboptimal. So don't delude yourself that Symbian was competing. It was not.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lumiaman (Post 1241331)

The sad part is that Symbian was NOT competing. It was simply being displaced by overwhelmingly superior forces. Pre-Elop nokians simply slashed prices to give it a little more life.

In Q4 2010 NOKIA's smartphone sales were up 36% year on year and the gross margin for smart devices was 29%. Also GM and ASP both went up in Q4 2010 as a result of the arrival of the N8.

In Q2 2012 NOKIA's smartphone sales are down 39% year on year and the gross margin is down to 23%.

It's not uncommon to see reductions in gross margins going hand in hand with increased sales, when customers place larger orders they expect keener prices (remember NOKIA's customers are carriers and retailers not Joe Public).

Decreasing margins combined with rapidly decreasing sales is a much more ominous sign.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lumiaman (Post 1241331)

So don't delude yourself that Symbian was competing. It was not.

The hundreds of millions of people who continued to buy Symbian phones long after iPhone and Android hit the market prove you wrong. Symbian absolutely, categorically was competing. Sorry if you don't like it but it's patently, obviously true.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!

Quote:

Originally Posted by switch-hitter (Post 1241384)

You are stuck in the past. Just like Nokia leadership, just like Brits many of whom wistfully reminisce of their empire, just like some Germans still think that stupid blunders cost them the Eastern Front. Wake up bud. It's a new day and it's without Symbian.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!

switch-hitter has sales numbers to back up his claims.

For FIVE years, 2007-2011, everybody (read: engadget) was messing how Symbian was dead while symbian sales in actual items sold were UP the whole period. They were up until the very quarter when Elop stated that it was time to evacuate.

Each and all argument against what switch-hitter backs up his claim with is NOT BASED ON REALITY.

I don't even like Symbian, but it was Nokias milk cow and it was shot in the head by Steven Elop. It's that simple.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!

Quote:

Originally Posted by switch-hitter (Post 1241330)

Android is not as 'smooth' as iOS (or WP7?) yet it continues to massively outsell both. Maybe power, functionality and freedom are more important than you appreciate.

EXCEPT Android is not more free than microsofts garbage:

take a look a this and stop beleive google is better its all the same evil as microshit is:

http://lwn.net/Articles/504865/

i really hope jolla get a chance in this area...

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikecomputing (Post 1241409)

Android may not be fully open but lets not go too far and suggest that it faces the same restrictions as WP. WP cannot even sideload apps and any homebrew is locked as a result meaning you have to pay $99 a year to develop your own apps on it, even for personal use.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!

Quote:

The N8 sold less than the HTC Desire and more than the SI only for a short period near launch, definitely not the far more popular SII that released shortly after. This is from Inderes Oy, a Finnish research firm.

yet

Quote:

Symbian's installed base is still around 300 million, Android has only recently overtaken that and iOS is still miles behind.

and

Quote:

In Q4 2010 NOKIA's smartphone sales were up 36% year on year and the gross margin for smart devices was 29%. Also GM and ASP both went up in Q4 2010 as a result of the arrival of the N8.

Time for the Maemo troll to make up it's minds. :rolleyes:

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!

Quote:

Originally Posted by specc (Post 1241418)

yet

and

Time for the Maemo troll to make up it's minds. :rolleyes:

wait, what? you do know you are quoting different people, right? What has what I said got to do with what others say?

Not everybody created multiple maemo accounts you know, which is more than I can say for you.