Originally Posted by reinob (Post 1453540)

Not everyone here will want to (or be allowed to) become a member of the e.V.
So as long as the Council represents the community "at large" (i.e. not only the e.V. members) it cannot be integrated into the e.V. Which brings us, again, to the potential conflict between the Council and the GA, as the Board is bound to execute both, but Council and GA will only have a (small) overlap.

Originally Posted by reinob (Post 1453581)

...Board can kick anyone out...

Originally Posted by reinob (Post 1453581)

Plus I have no clue if some ... law that prevents non-EU citizens...

Originally Posted by Estel (Post 1453517)

Exactly, like you choose moderators for TMO or tech staff - volunteers with correct skills, assigned by Board (or accepted by general assembly or whatsnot), not elected.

General rule of thumb is that for such tasks, you assign people with correct skills, not the ones that just want to do "something". Ironically, most people interested in doing humble housekeeping tasks doesn't bother to go through some elections, promoting themselves as candidates, etc. At the same time, you're likely to end with 5 vocal Councilors, that are good at doing 20% of "more glamorous" housekeeping, a no one to do the 80% rest, especially, if some of it require specific skills.

Think of it - it would be silly to ELECT every cleaning gentleman/lady in your building, right? Sure, you can choose between few offers, but ELECTION with CAMPAIGN for housekeeping? Seriously?

/Estel

Originally Posted by wicket (Post 1453669)

An interesting proposal to establish a volunteers' working group but the problem I see with it is finding volunteers who would be willing to do the "mundane tasks" as you put it.

Originally Posted by wicket (Post 1453669)

I don't really understand the cleaner analogy. Cleaners don't have the responsibility of keeping an organisation running.

Originally Posted by wicket (Post 1453669)

A more appropriate analogy might be one of councillors on a city/town council.

Originally Posted by wicket (Post 1453669)

As I understand it, there is currently no rule in place would prevent volunteers from coming forward to help out the council but we don't seem see many volunteers outside of the council as it stands.

Originally Posted by Estel (Post 1453709)

IDK, I would be first to volunteer for doing "mundane" housekeeping tasks in Maemo, as long as it doesn't involve Council, elections, and all that fss-fuss ;)



Neither Council have - keeping the organisation running is job of Board (BTW, this common misconception reinforces my theory about eternal power conflict if we keep Council).



Nah, housekeeping tasks of Council IS being the cleaners (mostly). Councilors on city/town (as we have ONE city here) is the General Assembly, with Board being the major ;)

BTW, cleaning the "house" IS part of keeping organization running - try to work in town hall that wasn't cleaned for 2 year or live in a city where trash isn't disposed of (even for few weeks), and you will notice that in short term, cleaners are much more vital for organization survival than town council/major ;) Italians would have some experiences with it...

Current Maemo Council IS for cleaning - including cleaning the toilets, if you pardon the comparison. Important task (no irony), but nevertheless miles away from city/town Council. When one toilet cleaner think he is head of city Council/major, we get what we had in past few months, and we *must* not allow it happen, again, ever. Ditching election campaign of room/toilet cleaners is a good step toward it.



Because if they're already elected, why you would need to? We have, like, 11 candidates. Last time it was 10. Still, the unelected ones were NOT volunteering doing mundane tasks after election, even if they were willing to volunteer BEFORE election (thus candidated) - which is another proof that the election circus around Council discourage people from doing real work.

Even though current time's Council is unpaid and meant to be house cleaning, there is too much involved with election in our "bigger" society, that (conscious or not) catalyst thinking like "they got elected, so it's their responsibility, why should I do this task if they got elected to do so?".

/Estel

Originally Posted by wicket (Post 1453756)

I've already expressed my concerns in the other thread regarding voting differences and personal data storage so the fact remains that not everyone in the community will want to become a member of the GA. This means that the Council (or a similar entity) is needed if you don't want to alienate anybody.

Originally Posted by peterleinchen (Post 1453776)

Any volunteer would be welcome to council meetings and tasks. How much did you see? And I do not think this is because of attitude of 'they got elected so why should I care?'. But more a general nowadays attitude.
How much volunteers do you think we will have on a Tuesday night meeting without those 5 members that got elected?

Originally Posted by Estel (Post 1453804)

Speaking about IRC - are there any plans for making the IRC moderator things more transparent and in-control of current organization? 3/4 of IRC moderators are inactive, one is sworn enemy of the current administration and known for notoriously abusing moderator powers, and I think no one knows who have grand-administrator privileges there. Time to contact freenode and reclaim #maemo channel? AFAIK freenode have ruleset for such situations, and de-hijacking should be trivial.

Originally Posted by peterleinchen (Post 1453776)

How much volunteers do you think we will have on a Tuesday night meeting without those 5 members that got elected?

Originally Posted by Estel (Post 1453804)

I think that requirement for IRC meetings is broken by design, as it requires real-time presence (that, most of the time, is NOT required to do the actual work).

Originally Posted by Win7Mac (Post 1453880)

As I see it, not everybody is ready for disbanding Council (yet) and as a result from recent discussion, I suggest to postpone such movement. If MC eV shows up fully functional and members find ways of promoting maemo communiy without the "need" for a council, the time may be ready then.