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-   -   Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=82014)

GrimyHR 2012-05-06 08:51
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danramos (Post 1202460)
nice, in the graph it is clearly visible that nokia was growing until february 2011 when that ****** announced killing the symbian and going with wp

danramos 2012-05-06 08:58
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrimyHR (Post 1202463)
nice, in the graph it is clearly visible that nokia was growing until february 2011 when that ****** announced killing the symbian and going with wp
But he's grinning! Clearly this is a WINNING strategy! Lumiaman assures me that it is too!

misterc 2012-05-06 12:01
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danramos (Post 1202460)
there are no problems...
only (wrong) solutions ¦-)))))))))))))))

specc 2012-05-06 18:22
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrimyHR (Post 1202463)
nice, in the graph it is clearly visible that nokia was growing until february 2011 when that ****** announced killing the symbian and going with wp
Nonsense. Look at the whole picture.

Their problems started to materialize at the end of 2007. Feb 2011 is hardly visible. Elop was hired in to solve the problem, but clearly things are not going in the right direction.

What went wrong? Android and Apple came on the scene with better products. That's it. Better in the sense that they are preferred by more people.

What Elop did was unforgivable. Not that he apparently killed Symbian/Meego, he didn't, those OS'es were doomed the minute iOS and Android entered. What he did was to marginalize hardware in favor of "ecosystems". That wasn't a bad move initially because hardware business in Europe cannot compete with China, and Nokia had to move on into the future. The cardinal sin he did was to go with an ecosystem-model of yesterday, Windows. He exchanged control of hardware for an ecosystem that cannot in any way, shape or form compete with Google. MS/WIndows may be able to compete with Apple, but Apple will soon disappear in the same manner as RIM, WM, Symbian, Palm, WebOS has vanished. Google is a force way beyond that of an "ecosystem" of yesterday. Google is a child of the internet; information, data and statistics is the blood. This stuff was previously largely unobtainable and most of it didn't even exist. The ones that could obtain some of it, used it to assert control of others.

Samsung did the right thing. They knew deep down they couldn't figure out a way that didn't include Google, they couldn't even figure out exactly what made Google tick. They made an attempt with Bada, but ultimately made a head on attack on everyone in the business with the one thing they knew really well - Hardware. That has paid off, and will pay more off in the years to come.

Previously I thought people would object to the spy-methods of Google, that Android would fracture into thousand pieces and that generally the "old" ways would come back. The exact opposite is happening, largely because Google is good, they don't force anyone. The "old" ways has proven to be toothless against Google. Apple will be the last one to fall, but fall it will.

daperl 2012-05-06 18:54
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Look, it's real simple. It's all about three symbols that both end in 7.

Nokias major f*ck up BE (Before Elop):

N97

Nokias major f*ck up AE (After Elop):

WP7

They should have stuck with the converging Qt plan, but they were no longer they any more. They fell victim to Redmond's version of Invasion of the Body Snatchers.

GrimyHR 2012-05-06 19:38
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by specc (Post 1202653)
Nonsense. Look at the whole picture.

Their problems started to materialize at the end of 2007. Feb 2011 is hardly visible. Elop was hired in to solve the problem, but clearly things are not going in the right direction.

What went wrong? Android and Apple came on the scene with better products. That's it. Better in the sense that they are preferred by more people.

What Elop did was unforgivable. Not that he apparently killed Symbian/Meego, he didn't, those OS'es were doomed the minute iOS and Android entered. What he did was to marginalize hardware in favor of "ecosystems". That wasn't a bad move initially because hardware business in Europe cannot compete with China, and Nokia had to move on into the future. The cardinal sin he did was to go with an ecosystem-model of yesterday, Windows. He exchanged control of hardware for an ecosystem that cannot in any way, shape or form compete with Google. MS/WIndows may be able to compete with Apple, but Apple will soon disappear in the same manner as RIM, WM, Symbian, Palm, WebOS has vanished. Google is a force way beyond that of an "ecosystem" of yesterday. Google is a child of the internet; information, data and statistics is the blood. This stuff was previously largely unobtainable and most of it didn't even exist. The ones that could obtain some of it, used it to assert control of others.

Samsung did the right thing. They knew deep down they couldn't figure out a way that didn't include Google, they couldn't even figure out exactly what made Google tick. They made an attempt with Bada, but ultimately made a head on attack on everyone in the business with the one thing they knew really well - Hardware. That has paid off, and will pay more off in the years to come.

Previously I thought people would object to the spy-methods of Google, that Android would fracture into thousand pieces and that generally the "old" ways would come back. The exact opposite is happening, largely because Google is good, they don't force anyone. The "old" ways has proven to be toothless against Google. Apple will be the last one to fall, but fall it will.
what about the fact that their smartphone sales were going up continuously until 2011? so symbian was growing even with ios and android being there for years already.
http://www.asymco.com/wp-content/upl...7.02.02-PM.png
you see? and how much is it shipping with wp now?

i wouldnt be surprised if nokia still sold more symbian smatphones than all wp phones from all manufacturers combined together

gerbick 2012-05-06 22:14
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
That graph stops before the "burning platform" memo. Whole picture would be from 2007 to 2012.

GrimyHR 2012-05-07 07:10
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1202757)
That graph stops before the "burning platform" memo. Whole picture would be from 2007 to 2012.
yes, it stops one month before that, i couldnt find one that goes to 2012 in a short time, but this one shows that symbian was rising right before the memo

switch-hitter 2012-05-07 11:10
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1202757)
That graph stops before the "burning platform" memo. Whole picture would be from 2007 to 2012.
http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/image...pmentsq211.jpg

Elop's apologists would have you believe the timing of Symbian's crash was entirely coincidental :rolleyes:

zimon 2012-05-07 11:24
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
And profits:

http://static8.businessinsider.com/i...-2007-2010.jpg

And Elop-effect:

http://communities-dominate.blogs.co...4a50dcd970d-pi

daperl 2012-05-07 18:32
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
1 Attachment(s)
This has a break-out of Windows Mobile and Windows Phone. It doesn't look good.

America’s New Mobile Majority: a Look at Smartphone Owners in the U.S.

Attachment 26216

misterc 2012-05-07 18:37
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by daperl (Post 1203145)
This has a break-out of Windows Mobile and Windows Phone. It doesn't look good.

America’s New Mobile Majority: a Look at Smartphone Owners in the U.S.

Attachment 26216
maybe NOKIA should try and make a WM device?!?
>¦-))))))))))))))
would at least give them a three fold chance of selling something :|

misterc 2012-05-07 20:10
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
maybe a... solution, eventually?
Kicking Nokia When It’s Down, Class-Action Suit Filed

Quote:
Nokia’s legal department is going to have a busy summer. Only a day after Nokia went on the offensive and filed lawsuits against HTC, RIM, and ViewSonic for patent infringements, a dissatisfied shareholder filed a class-action lawsuit against the struggling mobile company.

Robert Chmielinski filed a class-action lawsuit against Nokia and its CEO Stephen Elop and CFO Timo Ihamuotila in U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York, claiming that the company and its executives misled shareholders. Specifically, the company committed fraud by telling shareholders that the Windows Phone platform would put an end to Nokia’s falling position in the smartphone market.

But since when did an optimistic outlook on a corporate bet equal fraud? According to the plaintiff, the key is that executives knew they were making misleading statements in order to artificially inflate the price of Nokia securities.

“During the Class Period, defendants had both the motive and opportunity to conduct fraud. They also had actual knowledge of the misleading nature of the statements they made or acted in reckless disregard of the true information known to them at the time,” the suit documents assert.

The lawsuit cites Nokia’s $1.7 billion Q1 earnings loss as evidence that Windows Phone failed to reverse the handset maker’s slide. It further claims that Nokia mismanaged the Lumia 900 release by shipping the device with a glitch, which forced the company to offer a $100 refund to customers.
eventually ppl start to wake up & realize that Flop is desperately incompetent ¦-)
even though filling the law suite in Southern NY...
good luck :mad:

danramos 2012-05-08 03:03
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Elop's Nokia with Windows Phone
http://forgifs.com/gallery/d/77562-5...oses-tires.gif
So much for that "smoked by Windows Phone" campaign that they incidentally also provably lost out on. :)

almamo 2012-05-08 21:31
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danramos (Post 1203308)

So much for that "smoked by Windows Phone" campaign that they incidentally also provably lost out on. :)
Your comment made me use Photoshop to add something else to the "Smoked by Windows Phone" victims...

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-X...SmokedByWP.jpg

danramos 2012-05-08 21:42
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by almamo (Post 1203734)
Your comment made me use Photoshop to add something else to the "Smoked by Windows Phone" victims...

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-X...SmokedByWP.jpg
Oh that's perfect. I'm so posting that on Facebook/Google+ :) Thanks for sharing!!

Rauha 2012-05-09 16:32
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Idiocy of Nokia management and the speed of light in a vacuum.

Both are universal constants and cannot be beaten in their class. The diffenrence is that c was defined by a genious and Nokia management is defined by idiots.

danramos 2012-05-10 04:41
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rauha (Post 1204166)
Idiocy of Nokia management and the speed of light in a vacuum.

Both are universal constants and cannot be beaten in their class. The diffenrence is that c was defined by a genious and Nokia management is defined by idiots.
You mean a "genius?" :)

Rugoz 2012-05-10 23:44
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Just seen the list of 101 things wp7.5 can't do. I didn't know it was THAT bad, I mean seriously, nokia should stop that ******** now.

Lumiaman 2012-05-11 01:43
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rugoz (Post 1204987)
Just seen the list of 101 things wp7.5 can't do. I didn't know it was THAT bad, I mean seriously, nokia should stop that ******** now.
That list is disingenuous. I can put up a list of 101 things wrong with n9 too.

gerbick 2012-05-11 02:39
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
That list is pretty accurate if you have ever wanted/had those features on another platform or combinations therein.

patlak 2012-05-11 06:44
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by misterc (Post 1203202)
Nokia’s legal department is going to have a busy summer. Only a day after Nokia went on the offensive and filed lawsuits against HTC, RIM, and ViewSonic for patent infringements, a dissatisfied shareholder filed a class-action lawsuit against the struggling mobile company.
This is so Microsoft. IIRC, Pre-Elop Nokia focused more on competing with their devices rather than with their lawyers.

patlak 2012-05-11 06:47
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumiaman (Post 1205003)
That list is disingenuous. I can put up a list of 101 things wrong with n9 too.
All this features are what a phone should have. A consumer can notice all 101 of this things. When it comes to the N9, I bet your list is gonna be:

1. missing dual core
2. lag
3.missing dual core
4. lag
5. missing dual core
6. lag
7..............................

Get a life Lumiaman, WP is pathetic, you don't earn money from MS by talking so positively about a crap OS.

ir.miringila 2012-05-11 09:10
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
i go linux because win vista is ****... after one year using ubuntu and then debian i realise why window is ****.. why i never use linux distro before just because i dont know how to install it on my computer..just that. then ubuntu came in very easy way to install and i try it... yes i'm noob but i'll never go back to windows except for games only. what the different between wp and windows? they both ****

coopere 2012-05-11 20:13
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
European carriers don't want Windows Phones because of Microsoft's purchase of Skype. They say Skype will eat into their revenue and are totally dissatisfied. Elop himself admitted it in a shareholders meeting this month. The story has been making waves.

http://articles.businessinsider.com/...one-nokia-deal

misterc 2012-05-11 22:19
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
more trouble for Flop coming this way...

Nokia Reverses Course, Quietly Begins Selling N9 in United States

a few excerpts...
Quote:
Nokia today quietly initiated sales of the Nokia N9 in the United States. The phone joins the PureView 808 as being a non-Windows Phone being slated for sales in the American market.
[...]
factors may have driven Nokia’s about-face.

First, is difficulty in taming Windows Phone for some of the market demands. It has been all-but-confirmed by Nokia that the PureView 808′s high-resolution camera could not function properly with today’s Windows Phone platform. The instant-photo requirements of Windows Phone are very rigid, and 41 megapixel capacities likely require extreme resources from the handset. Only a real-time operating system like Symbian, now known as Nokia Belle, can handle such tasks currently.

In pressure from European customers, Nokia’s board pressured CEO Steven Elop to back down and commit to further development in Belle. The company now has charted out Belle devices for at least the next three years. Belle platform development is also being spearheaded by software consulting giant Accenture. Hundreds of Nokia-transferees would likely be terminated in a demise of Belle, a questionable move if Nokia is struggling financially with Windows Phone. As Nokia has said their “Plan B” is for “Plan A” (Windows Phone) to succeed. With MeeGo abandoned, and Belle discontinued, Nokia would be without a Plan C.

But what does any of that have to do with the Nokia N9 launching, now?

This week, Nokia strategically timed the announcement of a US-bound PureView 808 with the CTIA technology show. It’s not a mistake that the N9 is launching stateside a day after CTIA ended.

With Nokia now admitting it needs to sell non-Windows Phone devices in the United States, in order to have a fighting chance at breaking even with technological investments in PureView superphones, the N9 then becomes okay to sell. Microsoft is not worried about the N9 being a threat to Windows Phone anymore, as the platform is now merely a skunkworks project for Nokia.

In fact, a thriving N9 actually gives more woes for smaller competitors, as it fractures the Tizen and Open webOS marketplaces, trying to be rebooted by Intel/Samsung, and HP, respectively. Still, neither Tizen nor Open webOS are on the market today. Hence, the N9 may become a haven for those looking for a sustainable, open phone environment.
[...]
read on for your own pleasure ¦-)

the fruit looks more & more rotten...
going to fall from the tree & disintegrate before long :D

gerbick 2012-05-11 22:21
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
misterc... that ad just isn't right. They misspelled the OS, "MeGo" (sic) is spelled incorrectly and the screen size is wrong.

misterc 2012-05-11 22:28
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1205492)
misterc... that ad just isn't right. They misspelled the OS, "MeGo" (sic) is spelled incorrectly and the screen size is wrong.
read the post, check the link :cool:
and then don't post :D

here's an other one...
Nokia 808 PureView Coming to the U.S.
must be a conspiracy... :eek: :confused:
or i am a troll ¦-) :rolleyes:

MINKIN2 2012-05-11 22:36
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Well this looks interesting... Microsoft Revamps Search engine to include Social network results

I have said before that if MS want people to continue to use their search engine then they should stop trying to revamp and rebrand it so often. And this ain't going to help them when half of your facebook friends feel the need to update their status's when they can't decide what to have for tea.

However on a device such as the lumia where it be could integrated with the facebook app (or whatever the kids use these days) then it would be useful to some.

gerbick 2012-05-11 22:37
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
I checked the link. Frys is more or less capable of sourcing the N9 from any third party reseller. That's a far cry from it being "official". Amazon had them, was that official? Same for Expansys, Negri Electronics and a few other US based stores that sold the N9 unofficially.

That's the issue - well that and some of the most horrible copy I've seen in a while.

specc 2012-05-13 19:40
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by misterc (Post 1205489)
more trouble for Flop coming this way...

Nokia Reverses Course, Quietly Begins Selling N9 in United States

a few excerpts...


read on for your own pleasure ¦-)

the fruit looks more & more rotten...
going to fall from the tree & disintegrate before long :D
I don't know about the N9, but the 808 is apparently headed to the US. I have read that from other sources also. But that article is flawed. Win CE (WP) shouldn't have any problems with pureview as it also, like Symbian, is a RT OS. In fact a WP version of pureview is coming very soon. This may be the source of the rumor about the 808 ?

Or, it could be that some genius at Nokia has discovered that they actually need to sell phones to stay alive instead of going with the recent Nokia practice of NOT selling the phones people want.

GrimyHR 2012-05-13 21:23
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by specc (Post 1206189)
I don't know about the N9, but the 808 is apparently headed to the US. I have read that from other sources also. But that article is flawed. Win CE (WP) shouldn't have any problems with pureview as it also, like Symbian, is a RT OS. In fact a WP version of pureview is coming very soon. This may be the source of the rumor about the 808 ?

Or, it could be that some genius at Nokia has discovered that they actually need to sell phones to stay alive instead of going with the recent Nokia practice of NOT selling the phones people want.
a) bolded part is not a fact but a rummor
b) i doubt that any qualcomm soc has dsp that supports image capturing at 41MPx

MINKIN2 2012-05-14 08:15
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Now I have just seen something interesting... Our (my workplace) Desktop/GT IT team have created a drop off point for Blackberry users to exchange their old blackberry's for the new Windows Phone!

I used to work with those guys before my current role so will go see what the crack is later on

panjgoori 2012-05-18 16:10
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Here another sad story for Nokia. Nokia Cash Reserves Might Be Low

Nokia boards Now have to Fire Elop.

misterc 2012-05-18 21:33
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by panjgoori (Post 1208752)
Here another sad story for Nokia. Nokia Cash Reserves Might Be Low

Nokia boards Now have to Fire Elop.
the damage is done, as far as PR (≃ Public Relationship) is concerned.
the best they can hope is excel in Symbian and Maemo and show the mobile device buying public that they still make outstanding phones, hardware and software wise
808 PureView & Belle Fix Pack 1 are moves in the right direction.
Maemo / MeeGo coding competition 2012 too :D

specc 2012-05-20 19:05
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by misterc (Post 1208931)
the damage is done, as far as PR (≃ Public Relationship) is concerned.
the best they can hope is excel in Symbian and Maemo and show the mobile device buying public that they still make outstanding phones, hardware and software wise
808 PureView & Belle Fix Pack 1 are moves in the right direction.
Maemo / MeeGo coding competition 2012 too :D
What options does nokia have?
Symbian? Too late, all bridges are blown by Elop
Maemo? Too late, all bridges are blown by Elop
WP? Going downhill at an increasing rate
Meltemi? Is there even such a thing?
S40? Could be OK for short term low end, but not for very long.
Android? Works for everyone else, why not for Nokia?
Tizen? Could work, but high risk.

danramos 2012-05-20 23:58
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by specc (Post 1209803)
What options does nokia have?
Symbian? Too late, all bridges are blown by Elop
Maemo? Too late, all bridges are blown by Elop
WP? Going downhill at an increasing rate
Meltemi? Is there even such a thing?
S40? Could be OK for short term low end, but not for very long.
Android? Works for everyone else, why not for Nokia?
Tizen? Could work, but high risk.
You left out MeeGo--which, although they would be going at it alone, might still be an option IF they take it more seriously and GENUINELY take up the open-source cause the way Red Hat does.

Maemo isn't as burned a bridge as it seems you think, though.. but I do think it'll have a very hard time convincing me and others to come back to it after the bad taste they've left in our mouth. In the end, the Maemo (at device and support) experience was NOT a very good one and just kept getting worse.

I agree, though, Android is probably their best hope at this point.. and there's no reason why they can't do Android AND MeeGo or something else. It's not like Android makes exclusivity a requirement the way Microsoft probably tried to get with Nokia.

gerbick 2012-05-21 00:35
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Maemo would be seen as a step backwards and they would have to get Ovi or whatever they would name the desktop connectivity software going forward to be, to work with Maemo. So far, that's not been the case 100%...

Android would be seen as a surrender; not unless they're going to say way up front that they are a multiple-OS company, with multiple-OS strategies in multiple countries. Slate WP7 for North America, perhaps China. Move Android to where it's selling well - also North America, but also Europe. Bring back Symbian Belle, up the build quality on what they've shown for Meltemi (those look like some seriously cheap *** phones) and incorporate Harmattan swipe onto the last two.

Nokia is in a hole right now. Salvageable but it's going to take years now. But they are more than likely closer to end up running out of money before that happens.

That's my take.

Crashdamage 2012-05-21 14:50
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
It's simple. Doesn't matter if Nokia is running out of cash or what the market share of WP is. M$ will do and/or spend whatever it takes to keep Nokia - and so by extension WP - alive. Failure of WP is not an option. Meego, Tizen, Meltemi, Symbian, Android - doesn't matter - nothing else is an option. M$ is in control and will not allow it. The only way WP goes away is if it bankrupts M$ trying to make it go.

So just forget about Nokia using anything but WP except possibly on low-end devices. It will not happen. It's pointless to even speculate about it. I know that's a bummer, but it is what it is.

Registered Linux user #266531. Android user since v1.0.

zimon 2012-05-21 14:57
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Unless some Chinese or South-Korean cell phone maker buys Nokia out for its patents and Navteq, breaks the contract with Microsoft and pays the penalty ~2 Bn€.
It would hit Microsoft hard.


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