Re: [Announce] Pierogi - a universal infrared remote control app
 

I was actually asking for a keyset. Technics is in the manufacturers list, but there's nothing in the devices list.
Be much appreciated if you can :)

Re: [Announce] Pierogi - a universal infrared remote control app
 

Ah, my apologies; the "devices" iist right now is still not the best way to use Pierogi, as I don't really know what devices work myself. However, there is a decent selection of Technics keysets in the keyset list, and I'm betting that one or more of them will already work for you.

(Also, you can try out the new "Keyset Search" panel if you like; it'll go through all the keysets and send the "power on/off" command for each one. This way, you can test all of the keysets to see if any of them work for your device. :) )

Re: [Announce] Pierogi - a universal infrared remote control app
 

Cheers. That helped lots. Found that keysets 3 & 4 work pretty well.
Gotta dig out the instructions now to find out how to set up presets on the tuner now. LOL :p

Re: [Announce] Pierogi - a universal infrared remote control app
 

Good guess.
Yes, I`m CSSU and forced rotation user and I`m well aware why and how it works. Switched in on deliberately but forgot to add pierogi to blacklist after installation. Correction done.
BTW - You made a nice progress with pierogi, thanks.

Re: [Announce] Pierogi - a universal infrared remote control app
 

Thank you very much for the hard work, Copernicus. My Mitsubishi HC1500 projector still doesn't work, but maybe in the future. :)

Re: [Announce] Pierogi - a universal infrared remote control app
 

Drat. :) Yeah, I was only ever able to find a single config file for a Mitsubishi Projector. I was really hoping it would work. :)

Let me take another look around, maybe I can find something else...

Re: [Announce] Pierogi - a universal infrared remote control app
 

Copernicus, would you please push the new versions of Pierogi form Devel to Testing so can be reach Extras (if you consider stable enough of course), thanks.

Greetings.

Re: [Announce] Pierogi - a universal infrared remote control app
 

Ah, the big thing I wanted to do before moving the current version up to Extras was to get the documentation in order. (That, and try to get the macros into at least half-way usable shape; they're really a mess right now.)

Let me take a whack at the documentation at least, and see how far I can get. :)

Re: [Announce] Pierogi - a universal infrared remote control app
 

Fair enough, totally understand.

Greetings.

Re: [Announce] Pierogi - a universal infrared remote control app
 

I do agree it's not ready yet.
There's a nice first implimentation but I think we'll agree there's some polishing to do.

I am thinking polish it all off to stable standard before going mad on the documentation, you'll only end up re-writing the stuff again.

Re: [Announce] Pierogi - a universal infrared remote control app
 

Thank you, I really appreciate that. Say, is there any way I could help? What would I specifically be looking for? My googling skills are pretty good. ;)

Re: [Announce] Pierogi - a universal infrared remote control app
 

:) Google's pretty much the only source left for me as well; I get most of my data from either the LIRC project (www.lirc.org) or the hifi-remotes website (www.hifi-remote.com), but when they run out, I can sometimes find config data hidden in other websites all over the place.

Almost all the devices using consumer infrared today send their data in a very similar manner -- usually, each time you press a button, the remote control sends out two numbers, a "device" value and a "command" value. (Most devices only use one "device" number; the only common devices I've seen with multiple device numbers are stereo component systems, where each component frequently gets its own number.)

Most consumer IR systems encode information by varying the duration of time that the LED is on or off. So, when someone reads the pulses off of their remote to construct a config file, they might either just list the length of each pulse received when a button was pressed, or (if they know the encoding method) they might actually figure out the original numeric values and write those down instead.

So, in short, what I'm looking for is a list that associates each button with either timing values or device/command numbers. :)

Search strings like "IR Protocol" or "Remote Codes" seem to work fairly well. Sometimes I can get a hit with "LIRC", as it seems many people generate their own personal LIRC config files.

(And, of course, if you've got a PC with an IR receiver, you can just run LIRC yourself and read off the pulses for each button on your remote. :) )

Re: [Announce] Pierogi - a universal infrared remote control app
 

...not to mention, that for PC's with legacy serial ports, constructing IR receiver (compatible with LIRC on Linux) is very cheap and easy :)

USB-only comuter pose much bigger problem, last time I've checked (but still possible, so we could even do receiver for N900, and give it "learning remote" function).

/Estel

Re: [Announce] Pierogi - a universal infrared remote control app
 

hi...
can control the security system of cars with this program?
if no:
can do this with any remote program?
tnks

Re: [Announce] Pierogi - a universal infrared remote control app
 

Security system? You mean like the "keyless entry" mechanism?

I'm pretty sure that's done with RF signals, not IR. (And, as for myself, I'm really not interested in messing around with security systems in the first place...)

Re: [Announce] Pierogi - a universal infrared remote control app
 

I'm always interested in messing with security systems, but none car that I know uses IR for this purposes. Would be horribly unpractical.

BTW, encrypted (aka hard to spoof) IR transmission is fun idea. Just fun.

/Estel

Re: [Announce] Pierogi - a universal infrared remote control app
 

I am a security systems engineer and no product would use IR controls for there systems.
Maybe IR for a remote control on CCTV but many better methods are used for security and practical reasons.

Re: [Announce] Pierogi - a universal infrared remote control app
 

I may be mistaken but I think some product keys (Including cars and garage doors) use IR for security, especially cars pre 1990. I think the SmartKey was the successor to IR keys for cars post 1990 though.
.
I have a Mercedes Smartkey which uses RF for practicality but on the end has an IR transmitter for the engine immobilizer when the key is inserted.

IR is just like any other transmitted signal, it can be victim to replay attacks (recording the signal, then repeating the signal). This is the case for RF too isn't it? The only difference is that RF equipment is less common. These systems however do not rely on obscurity for security.

Publicly transmitted signals (IR or RF) employ a rolling code. That means the expected/transmitted signal changes with every keypress based on an algorithm known only to the intended transmitter and receiver which means a signal cannot be recorded and repeated (unless the car missed a valid transmitted signal that somebody recorded, so if you're super paranoid don't press your unlock buttons when out of range :D).

Sorry for always taking this thread off topic, please do let me know if it annoys anybody so that I will refrain from doing it again.

P.S. since I went off topic already I might as well report my past findings, for anybody still curious about the past discussion regarding the correct term for IR LEDs. The IEC do not like the term IR LED. The agreed standardised term for IR LED is IRED according to IEC60050-845. So beware! The IEC will frown on you. :rolleyes:

Re: [Announce] Pierogi - a universal infrared remote control app
 

IEC use IRED for infra-red and not UVED for ultraviolet, double standards or what? :p

As for security...
Yes, hopping and rolling code is possible for both but it's the combination of "practical and security" that ticks the RF box in the industry.

Yes, either (IR and RF) signals can be intercepted or jammed and susceptible to replay attacks if not encrypted somehow.

I can't say I have seen a car with IR transmission technology but I wouldn't expect pierogi to be compatible as I would expect rolling or hopping codes to be involved.

The huge downfall in infra-red transmissions is they can be effected by sunlight, take the IR proxy sensor on the N900 as an example.
Also to send data (voice, audio etc) any distance encrypted, the kit gets very expensive compared the same security in RF.

Pro's of IR is about 5 times more data can be sent along the same channel. Although RF will generally use multiple channels. Also now mesh RF technology is being introduced mainstream, systems can become self healing; if working over a network type scenario. Which makes signals as guaranteed as wired methods.

Due to this infra-red systems would only be used if indoor and the P2P is fixed or P2P is always in view, or RF cannot be used due to radio noise.

Thus being left mainly for consumer remote controls (edging back on-topic) :D
Consumer short range IR controls ("CIR" to make IEC happy) can be bashed together cheaply are fairly simple and energy efficient.

@Copernicus
Is there a correlation to a particular protocol(s) that have range issues?

Most of the protocols I have seen recommend about a 25-33% duty cycle, is pierogi on 50% ATM?

Re: [Announce] Pierogi - a universal infrared remote control app
 

I believe it is possible that a poorly defined protocol could manage to be understood by the receiver better when at a shorter range. Maybe. :) But yeah, all my protocol info is third- or fourth-hand at this point, so I'm certain I don't have the all my timings set exactly the way they were defined. So if I can find a correlation between a specific protocol and range issues, hopefully I can come up with a fix.

Yes, I've now got all my protocols defaulting to a 50% duty cycle. A while back, I had the default set at 33%. I'm not sure that either default setting has made a huge impact; and, while I also see recommendations for anything from 25% to 50% in various places, I haven't yet found a protocol that requires a specific duty cycle.

I'm planning on setting the default back to 33%, as that is the LIRC's default as well...

Re: [Announce] Pierogi - a universal infrared remote control app
 

I didn't notice a change when you switched from 33 to 50.

Also if I play with the duty cycle in the new setting with my LG TV, I have to go to the extremes of either end (<15 and >85) before commands are dropped.

Edit:- is your carrier frequency set for all the protocol or are they different for each?
Would ~3Hz out on the carrier cause this?

Re: [Announce] Pierogi - a universal infrared remote control app
 

I set the carrier frequency specifically for each protocol. Unfortunately, frequency data is even less available than command timing data; the LIRC just defaults to 38 kHz for most protocols, and that seems to work fairly well. But the receivers are expecting a specific carrier frequency, and getting closer to that desired frequency will probably provide better results.

By pushing the frequency all the way up to 60 kHz, I've been able to reduce the effective range to my little Samsung TV to maybe 50 centimeters (or a foot and a half). So I know that it has a range effect for at least some devices.

(I would imagine that bad command timings would have a similar effect.)

Re: [Announce] Pierogi - a universal infrared remote control app
 

Hi, after the new update of Pierogi (with the advance panel and the preferences tab), the macro seems not to work any more(it work if I press the "Run" button in macro panel, but when I press the physical key it does not work).

Maybe I set a setting wrong?

Re: [Announce] Pierogi - a universal infrared remote control app
 

Hi Copernicus!
Just wanna thank you for this app. :)
We just bought a TV this afternoon for my mom and had the opportunity to test Pierogi on different brands. I overheard a customer asking the sales guy what I was using, the sales guy trying to be all-knowing for his buyer said I'm using a "smart remote control". :D

+1 bragging rights, the N900 made an impression.

Re: [Announce] Pierogi - a universal infrared remote control app
 

Sorry for the late reply, been away from Pierogi for a while... Ah well, I'm still trying to clean up both my macro system and my keyboard controls. I think the first thing to check out is in the Preferences option in the menu, there is a "Macro Pack with Keyboard Focus" option that you'll probably want to switch to "User Defined Keyboard Macros". Hopefully that will get things working again for a while...

Re: [Announce] Pierogi - a universal infrared remote control app
 

I've done as you said and it does not work....

Re: [Announce] Pierogi - a universal infrared remote control app
 

Buddy can u make tha thingy such that we can add ir data of diff brands if we can find them? Pls or a possible workaroumd on adding data to it:) thanx

Re: [Announce] Pierogi - a universal infrared remote control app
 

Sure, you can add them just now. Look into code, and add new definitions there. Then send patches to Copernicus, he will be endlessly pleased.

Otherwise, you may want to send him definitions you've found and would like to see in pierogi, then ask kindly - just without all this "Plllls!" and other luser habits.

/Estel

Re: [Announce] Pierogi - a universal infrared remote control app
 

Add them to the wiki?

http://wiki.maemo.org/Pierogi_Device...eyset_Requests

Re: [Announce] Pierogi - a universal infrared remote control app
 

Busy finding ir data gonna flood :D

Re: [Announce] Pierogi - a universal infrared remote control app
 

@Copernicus
Spotted a typo I should point you to.
In preferences the last combobox you have mispelled "keyboard"
Only just spotted it, it's the last slot on the preferences page ;)

Re: [Announce] Pierogi - a universal infrared remote control app
 

Thanks, got it! I'm not certain when I'll get the next update out, but I'm working on it. My apologies to any folks who've been waiting a while...

Re: [Announce] Pierogi - a universal infrared remote control app
 

My apologies to any folks who've been waiting a while...??
Absolutely no appologies the more delay you make the more ir data gets in and more concrete the program becomes:) its already awsome just needs update time to time:p

Re: [Announce] Pierogi - a universal infrared remote control app
 

bumping........ just to attract replys:p

Re: [Announce] Pierogi - a universal infrared remote control app
 

Cool, I'll reply. :) It's been a while, but I'm finally trying to get back to working on Pierogi again. I've pushed a new update into extras-devel, it'll hopefully be available soon. This one doesn't do much; there's some underlying cleanup of the code, but the only user-visible change is that I've moved the "Power Key Search" up to the menu next to the "Select Keyset" option. Last year, I didn't really believe this would be as easy a way to find a keyset as it seems to be; but it really does seem to work pretty well. It really deserves to be made a primary tool, right alongside the manual selection mechanism.

What I'm hoping to do most in the next few weeks or so is clean up the existing code, fix the documentation, and get version 1.1 into a state where I can push it up into Extras. I know that the macros are broken right now, and I'm not sure how long it'll take to fix that; I'm beginning to think that I should just remove them from 1.1 for now, and reintroduce them in version 1.2...

BTW, also in this update, I've made a first pass at keysets for Alpine, ILO, SagemCom, and Starhub, and added a few new keysets for Strong and Technics.

Please let me know if you've got fixes or additions you'd like to see in Pierogi! Thanks.

Re: [Announce] Pierogi - a universal infrared remote control app
 

I think it would be good to see an update to Extras.
However since you have been away the migration has caused a few issues with packages and repositories.
Developers are waiting for promotion to Testing to be fixed and promotion to Extras is yet to be tested. I wouldn't want you to waste developing time from the above issues.

Re: [Announce] Pierogi - a universal infrared remote control app
 

Hey copernicus nice app i am using it for a month now and its working pretty good. The best part of the app the pranks on friends :D

I wanted to suggest an idea i don't know for sure if it's possible, but could you put air conditioning as a device type. I know there's a panel option but i can't find any brand of that, that are common used in greece.

Thank you for your good work.

Re: [Announce] Pierogi - a universal infrared remote control app
 

Yes, I've actually been fighting with air conditioning controls for a while now. I do have a couple of A/C keysets in Pierogi, but the main problem has been that most modern air conditioner remotes try to maintain state information. (That is, they try to remember what the temperature, fan speed, etc. was last set to.) This state information then gets dumped into each command sent by the remote, which makes A/C IR commands far more complex.

I have to admit that, after spending a few weeks on the problem last year, I put it on the back burner and focussed on other, easier tasks. :) I'll take another look and see if I can get something put together...

Re: [Announce] Pierogi - a universal infrared remote control app
 

Cheeesus, and for what? Why remote should be even remotely interested in last settings of controlled unit, instead of just keeping that in A/C's memory? Even *if* we would have remotes with LCD's, that would display current settings of controlled unit, it would be easier to do via two-way communication, than by dumping last thing into every new command.

Have their gone nuts, or is there any sane rationale for such werido? Asking just out of curiosity.

/Estel

Re: [Announce] Pierogi - a universal infrared remote control app
 

Of course! It's because remote controls with LCD screens look so cool! :) Why would you ever purchase an air conditioner with a bland buttons-only remote control, when you could get one that is so much more technologically advanced. :)

(Then again, as I've spent many hours now creating an incredibly intricate multi-screen universal remote control application, I'm really not in a position to complain here. :) )