Re: TOHKBD rev2
 

With 1'034 preorders yet to state their choice, this topic is going to fly to the moon. :]

Re: TOHKBD rev2
 

I would hope the choices are made somewhere outside this topic ;)

Re: TOHKBD rev2
 

There's no hope of that.
Sorry.




Now, to get back on-topic :p

Alumide + Black + Kelo

or

Navyblue + White + Birch

Re: TOHKBD rev2
 

Made this earlier ;)
http://aonsaithya.kapsi.fi/url/jolla...basciphone.png

My personal choice will probably be one of these though. I usually prefer all-black, but the domino/oreo -cookie is surprisingly nice, even classy.

Re: TOHKBD rev2
 

I think walnut goes great with black keyboard.
Not sure if I should go for a black TOH part or for a more personal looking black + white combo :D

Re: TOHKBD rev2
 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22542581/tohkbd.png
I made this :3

seriously i think all black with walnut backplate would be the option for me.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...k%2Bwalnut.png
this would look good even after long use.
bright colored plastic has the bad habit to not look good with black fingerprints (i sometimes have greasy hands from bicycle maintenance)

Re: TOHKBD rev2
 

Technical update

Main focus points of project:
- functionality (making great progress, no worries)
- durability (update below)

The emi contact fingers providing the springy contact between the two parts prove not to be durable enough. See picture below, problem marked with sad smiley.
https://dl.dropbox.com/s/beftt7cresm...2019.34.32.jpg

NO PANIC

I've done some research into pogo pins (gotta love 'm). These should also do the job, but because they are just surface-mounted, the copper beneath it becomes the next weak spot. However, there are pogo-pins that go through the PCB and provide a very strong connection.
https://dl.dropbox.com/s/hrul5zbp39d...2019.32.04.jpg

They are about 1.5 times as thick as the pins of the phone itself. They go through the full thickness of the PCB and feel very strong even without being supported by the outer casing.

This is still under testing, but first impressions and primary tests give me a lot of confidence this is a good solution!

Re: TOHKBD rev2
 

Thanks dirkvl,
I really like the way you are keeping us updated.
Best communication about progress on a Kickstarter project I've seen so far.

I think the pogo-pins will also look even better than the "old" contacts.

Re: TOHKBD rev2
 

Keeps me sharp and is a good learning experience!

Anyway yes, this will also look a lot cleaner, just 6 1x1x1mm copper diglets sticking out from the frame :)

Re: TOHKBD rev2
 

A quick doubt: won't those pointy things protruding from the key part scratch the TOH part attached to the phone when sliding the keyboard in/out?

Re: TOHKBD rev2
 

slightly less important, but that is next thing under consideration.

but to set you at ease, because of the alignment pins, there is a minimum 1mm gap between the parts when not in connected state

Re: TOHKBD rev2
 

Hello,

Small nitpick (sorry - bad form for my first post :) )

In your store the colour selections are for the 'base' and 'bottom', which are as good as synonymous. The terms the preview widget thing uses - 'TOH' and 'KBD' are much clearer to someone unfamiliar with the project in my opinion.

Love the work you're doing though, thanks!

Re: TOHKBD rev2
 

Before everyone gets too carried away with colour choices, let me just tell you all that I have a simple LEGO-OH that flypig designed. It's really cool and I like it a lot, but I got a blue one (made by Shapeways) and here's the thing:

After having it in my pocket for a few months the colour is starting to come off. I thing Dirkvl has already pointed this out, but all plastics (except for alumide I guess) are just surface coated white prints it seems. So the colour does wear off, at least on my piece.

Something for you all to consider before deciding on what colour to choose.

Edit: I'm in no way criticising Dirkvl, just wanted to make that very clear! I'm extremely impressed with what he and the rest of the team has come up with. If anything, I'm a bit disappointed in the way Shapeways markets their available colours...

Re: TOHKBD rev2
 

At least for normal FDM printers (such as our Prusa Mendel I2 RepRap) this is not the case - the plastic (ABS or PLA) filament that goes in is fully colored (eq. the color has been mixed-in to the molten plastic when they made the filament spools) and therefore also the things you print have the same color everywhere. Even if you break it to pieces, it still has the same color. :)

Of course my 3D printing experience comes from FDM printers and Shapeways might be using some other 3D printing technology that might work in a different way.

Re: TOHKBD rev2
 

Thanks for the pointing to an eventual problem with the colours.
I hope Dirk will give us some information about this point. I wouldn't choose a coloured one if it isn't imblued.

Re: TOHKBD rev2
 

Yes, this is known from the prints by Shapeways. I personally have not experienced it to be as severe as you describe, but every user-case is different off course!

With the way it is currently constructed, it will probably be quite easy to replace the casing later on. The 3D files (and all other files also by the way) will be open-sourced, so you will be able to buy parts separately aftermarket.

To conclude, whatever the construction method, there are always up- and downsides to every choice we make. The focus on this project is on functionality and durability, and all decisions are made to be inline with this. Possible colour fading after some months is not preferable, but given the ease at which they can be replaced aftermarket this is imo well mitigated.

Re: TOHKBD rev2
 

Hi Dirk thanks for information. Do you know if that is the case with all colours? Even black?

Re: TOHKBD rev2
 

My pink diptoh has "faded" a lot too, and I can easily see the contrast because a small area just around the switches is close to the original colour because it has gone through less frictions in my pockets. I still like it, but it definitely does not look "brand new" anymore, just by the sight of the colour (which is actually less agressive and fancy, so for the pink, that might be a good thing!).

I have not noticed colour-fading with my black toholed from Kimmo, but I don't remember if it was from Shapeways or some other manufacturer, and I'm not even sure it's the same material (it feels different). Kimmo already answered to that actually, but I don't remember his answer.

Thanks for the updates Dirk. What's this carbon-fiber-like backplate in a pale/whitish colour in the Kickstarter update?

Re: TOHKBD rev2
 

The black toholed you have is also shapeways, same we use now.

What white carbon backplate? I have no idea what you are talking about!

Re: TOHKBD rev2
 

i think he means this

Re: TOHKBD rev2
 

oh that one! ehm.... ehh... how do i explain this??

okay we added 1 last extra backplate option, but dont tell anyone!
http://media.giphy.com/media/2L4njaPawt3uo/giphy.gif

Re: TOHKBD rev2
 

Well that's too bad because now I want two colour sets, which means two keyboards, which means two Jollas. The Black/White/BBS plus the White/Pink/WCF. And no common parts between the two sets. So basically, it means that I hate you.

(I'm really surprised toholed and diptoh are the same material, they feel so different in hand. Even tohkbd1 that you 3D-printed on your own machine, if I remember correctly, has a different feeling from the two aforementioned. Maybe the same material feels different depending on the 3D-printer being used?)

Re: TOHKBD rev2
 

OK, I got a new suggestion for you, just to give you a reason to redisign the whole thing again ;-)

How about making the base into a general purpose connector plate? Something for those who want to swap their TOHs often and quickly? The magnetic attachment idea is ingenious, and should certainly not be limited to just keyboards!

Re: TOHKBD rev2
 

Dirk, I'm sure you will make more units than actually pledged on the Kickstarter campaign. Any ideas of how many extra units will be made? I have only one Jolla so I ordered only one tohkbd2, and I want to try it by myself before purchasing an extra one in different colours (+ spare one in case of loss/break/etc.). Just trying to know whether that will be possible, or if I should take the risk now, which I'm not sure I can. :o

Re: TOHKBD rev2
 

I'm afraid I cannot answer that at this point. It is now for sale in my show and on KS, but when I have all data from the KS pledges it will also no longer be possible to buy it in my shop.

From that point on I have to process all data and buy parts. Getting and processing additional purchases halfway really complicates this.

Of course I will make more than the amount of orders, but I have to take into account that some will break during production or are DOA. If all goes well I can sell some more at that point, but I cannot predict how it will go.

Re: TOHKBD rev2
 

It already is.

Since all files will be open after the project (when all designs are final), so you are free to make other stuff.

Re: TOHKBD rev2
 

Dirkvl, congratulations on the €150.000 goal. Will it end on 300% on inital goal? We'll see...

Re: TOHKBD rev2
 

Thanks! 7k away from 3rd most successful dutch campaign, that would be a killer! :D

Re: TOHKBD rev2
 

Still a little sad about no injection molding but it's completely understandable (what would happen with promised delivery dates? and venturing to new production techniques with no former experience of them can always bear unexpected and money-costing mistakes)...

While we're at it, take this! :
yellow base, black kbd, walnut brown
black base, red kbd, black carbon

When I order these two, I actually get four possible combinations which all fit together :D

PS: It's a shame about that 'mint' colour, I really like it...

Re: TOHKBD rev2
 

For me it will be:

Backplate: Carbon Black
Keyboard: Black

For the Cover i doubt: Red, Orange or Blue. Probably Red.

And obviously my spanish qwerty modification if possible :)

Re: TOHKBD rev2
 

Dirkvl, you said it would be easy to get the keyboard engraved with the symbols wanted in a shop. I asked about it to a friend who works in something related and he asked me if the letters are just painted or there is groove in the plastic.

Re: TOHKBD rev2
 

The symbols in the keyboard are also laser engraved at the manufacturing place. The keypad is made with black plastic keycaps on top of a flexible translucent membrane.

Re: TOHKBD rev2
 

Yes, I know, but I am talking of adding symbols by myself to convert the qwerty layout in qwerty spanish. I just want to know if they are painted over the plastic or the plastic have grooves (small perforations in the plastic to draw the letter) and the paint inside them.

Re: TOHKBD rev2
 

He said it's black plastic on a translucent membrane, so when the lazer etches off the plastic, the membrane is exposed. The letters will show up when the LED lights turn on.

That's what I gathered, anyway.

Re: TOHKBD rev2
 

think andrew can best comment on this

Re: TOHKBD rev2
 

I totally understand, but it was worth asking. I'm sure I could wait a bit and you would still have some parts in stocks, but I guess I'm gonna order two from KS anyway. :]

I have pledged on the €120 option which is not available anymore. If I want to add €130 for an extra keyboard, how will you keep track of the initial pledge that grants me the signature edition (thanks to the Hero)? With €250 (God, what am I doing? :D) and the limited pledge I got, I should have a custom colour signed tohkbd2 and a custom colour tohkbd2, but I'm afraid you cannot see that once I change my pledge.

Re: TOHKBD rev2
 

this is i think one of those messages you type while you think, and then don't read it back. i cannot 'make cheese out of it'.

anyway, starting on a job i have been avoiding so far: changing the keyboard pcb to have circular domes instead of semi-oblong ones.
circulars have -i think- a little higher push-force, which is better since they will under slight tension by the keypad membrane. but mainly it makes ordering domesheets easier, because i only have to give list of locations and no worries about orientation.

https://dl.dropbox.com/s/z55wl7s9959...rrectdomes.JPG

i mentioned here already i will probably be going for through-hole fat pogo-pins instead of emi fingers? cleaner look, more durable.
https://dl.dropbox.com/s/hrul5zbp39d...2019.32.04.jpg
these will be on next test pcb for keyboard piece.

also, waiting on the pcb for in the toh cover, that is the first final-release candidate. if that one is perfect i will put some fancy pcb art on it and can start setting production up for it.

Re: TOHKBD rev2
 

Actually I did proof-read my message, but I'm not a native speaker and what I am trying to ask is difficult to put in words.

1. I have pledged on a €120 option to get custom colour tohkbd2 at a discount price.
2. €120 custom colour units all have been sold.
3. A hero entered the game and converted my €120 tohkbd2 to a signed one.
4. I want to purchase an extra tohkbd2, with custom colour. It costs €130 given that there are no limited (cheaper) options anymore.
5. I need to add €130 to my pledge amount, but Kickstarter will not allow me to choose multiple pledge options. Either I revoke my €120 pledge, or I keep it but pledge 250. With the latter option, how will you know that the extra €130 are for an extra tohkbd2 with custom colour, and not any other combinations or donation?

Re: TOHKBD rev2
 

can't you just boost your pledge to 2xoriginial+1xshipping? otherwise you will get 2xsurvey i guess. first time for me also, all will be fine.

Re: TOHKBD rev2
 

Sure I can, that's my question and I will do that if you recommend it, but then on your side it will show something like:

"This guy pledged 251€ on one €120 limited edition tohkbd2."

I was not sure how you would interpret the extra euros. Sure there is the survey, but considering that KS only allows selecting a single option, you cannot know if people have put money for several limited editions when they were still available.