maemo.org - Talk - Nokia N900 vs. Motorola Droid / Milestone

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Re: N900 vs. Motorola Droid (Verizon Android device)

The Droid is really disappointing. No blazing fast CPU. Little onboard storage. The 1400mAh battery is barely larger than the N900's 1350mAh but has more screen to power. Yeah, the screen is slightly larger and has slightly higher resolution than the N900, but 3.5" to me is just about right for a pocket-able, phone-enabled device. Bigger is not always better. It does have a D-pad, but the keyboard looks flat and hard to feel.

Android vs Maemo - no contest unless you're only counting apps in a market.

And I'm sorry, but the Droid is just plain FUGLY. Looks like the designers of the upper screen half read the length spec differently from the designers of the bottom keyboard half. What's with that? Goofy lookin'...makes my old G1 look almost graceful.

But it IS a little thinner and lighter. I guess that's something...but I'm even more glad now I ordered the N900.

Re: N900 vs. Motorola Droid (Verizon Android device)

Quote:

Originally Posted by cb474 (Post 356107)

The iPhone is the best example of this. It does a lot of great things, but if it doesn't do what you want you're stuck, unless you're going to jailbreak it, which does not represent what most users are willing to do. You're also stuck, as I already said above, with Apple's capricious app approval process, including already documented cases of limiting political speech on the iPhone. Google won't be as heavy handed as Apple, with Android. They'll offer a set of applications and services so slickly integrated that it won't be worth your trouble to go outside this system, even if there's something you're missing. In fact, most users will be so complacent, they won't even realize what they're missing. This was really Microsoft's original strategy, with wanting to integrate IE deeply in the operating system. The courts shot that down, but Google is heading toward getting away with it on a much grander scale. Microsoft wanted to embed the browser and interaction with the web deeply in the operating system. Google has simply flipped this idea on its head and embedded the operating system/platform deeply in the web. The goal is the same. Completely monopolize the form of the user experience at all levels. You will also have zero privacy once you've decided to adopt the Google/Android way of doing things. As I mentioned before, everything in history suggests that this kind of centralized database of information about individuals will come back to haunt them.

Great post - the whole thing was a great read. Thanks.

Re: N900 vs. Motorola Droid (Verizon Android device)

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnkzin (Post 356932)

I wouldn't want an N900 with Android.

I would want Maemo ... and Dalvik. Then you get the best of both (real Linux computer in your pocket, Maemo's UI work and integration, and Android applications). And on a bigger device (a 4.1" phone with comfortable 5 row keyboard and dpad for one ... and on a 10" convertible tablet netbook for my other mobile device).

A second choice would be Android, but with a Linux user-land (terminal app, gnu bin-utils, apt-get/apt-cache, perl, etc.) added on. So that I get the "real linux in my pocket" effect that Maemo has. But I don't know how I would best add X to this (a small virtual X layer running on top of the existing Android graphics enviroment? not sure). I'm not a huge fan of X, as I think it's rather inefficient and under-featured as a window drawing mechanism ... and I'm agnostic about GNOME vs Android's "window manager". So I could probably even live without X support at all. But, again, that would be my second choice, and I probably wouldn't run it on an N900.

Third choice... not sure if it'd be Pure Maemo5 or Pure Android. I wont know the answer to that until I have my N900. :-) Though, there are a few things I miss about Maemo (from my days of using my N810). But not enough to keep using the two device model (a phone + N810). When it's Android on my G1 vs phone+N810, Android is good enough (and the two device model is inconvenient enough) that I'm more than happy sticking to Android. But, the N900 changes some of that equation (single device, better resolution than the G1, etc.). So I have to wait and see.

But if it was Pure Android, I doubt I'd run it on an N900. I'm hoping for a new Android device that has a 5 row keyboard (like the G1), but hopefully one with a dpad and a bigger screen than the G1. I was willing to consider the Motorola Sholes/Tao/Droid when it had a 4 row keyboard that had a dedicated number row ... but they changed the keyboard layout. Between that and having to switch to Verizon, not so interested anymore. The Motorola Cliq might be interesting ... but still, 4 row keyboard without a dedicated number row. But at least I don't have to switch carriers in order to get it.

G1 I have a 3rd party 2300mah from eBay. Works great for past eight months and the contoured cover enables it to fit in my belt case. The newer roms take up more of the app space and I am already down to 17megs. Apps2sd is not for me (need to card swap), so I am sticking with the functional setup I have now :)

As far as N900 with Android, I said "consider". Maemo needs less cpu clock to conduct similar operations and I like the premise of the OS- it is what Android should / could have been.

Re: N900 vs. Motorola Droid (Verizon Android device)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rushmore (Post 356966)

As far as N900 with Android, I said "consider". Maemo needs less cpu clock to conduct similar operations and I like the premise of the OS- it is what Android should / could have been.

Honestly, I think the optimal path is somewhere in between.

I doubt you're ever going to see a huge developer presence on Maemo. Sure, the Linux community might (_might_) grab on to it once Nokia _really_ gets behind it. But it's Linux. The mainstream consumer apps developer community isn't likely to make that leap.

Maemo needs 3 things that Android has:

1) a mainstream programming environment -- a Java based makes for an easy learning curve for the huge base of Java programmer who consider becoming an Android developer. It doesn't have to be Java, but it has to be a common language with a common (more common than Linux, Gnome, and probably Qt) API.
2) an open and optional App Market (as opposed to no central distribution channel for 3rd party devs that older Maemos have had, or the closed and mandatory distribution channel that Apple has)
3) the HUGE marketing push and effort that Google, HTC, T-Mobile, etc. have put into Android (or that Apple has put into the iPhone).

And, it wouldn't hurt to have a huge base of devices that it runs on as well. Apple hasn't needed that, but it's helping Android quite a bit, IMO.

#3 is probably the biggest key. But #1 and #2 would be a huge benefit to Maemo, IMO.

I'm not sure that Android _needs_ (for its intended goal/audience) anything from Maemo ... but I'd like to see it have a sort of "pro" version that gives you a more typical Linux experience at the command line, apt-get/apt-cache, perl, and not need to be "rooted" for some of the more interesting capabilities, and things like that. All things that you get with Maemo.

That's why my first choice is a hybrid of Maemo at the base, and Android on top.

Re: N900 vs. Motorola Droid (Verizon Android device)

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnkzin (Post 356981)

Maemo needs 3 things that Android has:

1) a mainstream programming environment -- a Java based makes for an easy learning curve for the huge base of Java programmer who consider becoming an Android developer. It doesn't have to be Java, but it has to be a common language with a common (more common than Linux, Gnome, and probably Qt) API.
2) an open and optional App Market (as opposed to no central distribution channel for 3rd party devs that older Maemos have had, or the closed and mandatory distribution channel that Apple has)
3) the HUGE marketing push and effort that Google, HTC, T-Mobile, etc. have put into Android (or that Apple has put into the iPhone).

And, it wouldn't hurt to have a huge base of devices that it runs on as well. Apple hasn't needed that, but it's helping Android quite a bit, IMO.

Responding to the last unnumbered point first, I think this is going to be the big stumbling block for Nokia and why they will lose out to Android. Nokia needs to sell the device itself to make money. Google gets money from tying people into their universe of services and applications (from whence they can advertise to you), so Google can give away Android and get others to do the work for them on the hardware side. Nokia's approach seems to be to reserve their best, highest end, platform for exclusive N series phones, which ends up making it into a niche product. Not much suggests Nokia is planning to change this strategy with the N900 or subsequent Maemo devices. That was fine in the apex of the S60 days, when flagship devices were more about creating brand appeal, than about selling numbers of devices. But then the iPhone came along, followed by Android, and popularized this sort of smartphone/desktop type device, and Nokia is just getting left in the dust. Nokia should put Maemo on a ton of different devices at different price points, if they want to compete (since Nokia can't really make money licensing Maemo--why pay for the license when you can have Android for free? also the Achilles heel of WinMo).

In response to 1), isn't Qt in Maemo 6 supposed to basically serve the same purpose as Java on Android? Although it sadly also seems like Qt may be another step toward closing down Maemo and making it more proprietary like the iPhone and Android.

Re: N900 vs. Motorola Droid (Verizon Android device)

Quote:

Originally Posted by cb474 (Post 356989)

In response to 1), isn't Qt in Maemo 6 supposed to basically serve the same purpose as Java on Android? Although it sadly also seems like Qt may be another step toward closing down Maemo and making it more proprietary like the iPhone and Android.

It's supposed to ... but, how much penetration into the wide world of mainstream app developers does Qt have? Certainly not as much as Java.

Re: N900 vs. Motorola Droid (Verizon Android device)

i have not read ALL 22 pages of blog here, but i have a question...

the N900 will have full PIM sync available through nokia pc suite and OVI suite.

but the android unit does not have a viable pim sync.

if so, that is "standard" and not some 3rd party app, please correct me.

Re: N900 vs. Motorola Droid (Verizon Android device)

just subscribing...sorry

Re: N900 vs. Motorola Droid (Verizon Android device)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ceroberts75 (Post 357003)

the N900 will have full PIM sync available through nokia pc suite and OVI suite.

The N900 does not have full PIM sync. It has limited PIM sync. You can sync to a local _WINDOWS_ PC via USB or Bluetooth. You can sync to OVI.

You cannot sync to any random SycnML service. You can't sync to a Mac. You can't sync to a Linux PC.

Quote:

but the android unit does not have a viable pim sync.

Anything that can sync to Google Apps (directly, or via various third party apps) can stay in Sync with Android. My Mac is in perfect sync with my Android phone, because my Mac has an add-on that sycn's with Google.

You may not want a "third party" app for it, but it beats the pants off of Maemo in that regard. When it come so PIM syncing, Android is miles ahead of Maemo, IMO.

Re: N900 vs. Motorola Droid (Verizon Android device)

It's the awful MOTO and VZN logos that are ruining the look of the phone. The phone itself look good.

And there will be GSM version of this phone coming out soon.