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maemo.org - Talk (https://talk.maemo.org/index.php)
-   Jolla1 & TOH (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=56)
-   -   [HOWTO] Comprehensive Firmware Flashing Guide for Jolla (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91885)

Larswad 2013-12-30 11:06
Re: [HOWTO] Comprehensive Firmware Flashing Guide for Jolla
 
one thing I just don't understand in this discussion (not arguing, just don't understand). Why would the modem as a part of the SoC be a threat to the information integrity? I see it merely as a wcdma transport, if encrypted information goes in it just transfer it to the uplink, it goes over the rnc, to the downlink and to the modem of some other device. Sure, we don't know what goes on inside it, but if the data is encrypted it remains so the whole way. I suppose you say that there is a possibility or probability that it would relay the data to a third party (e.g. government)? In such case I suppose that weakness could be present through the whole chain, as usual. compromised servers etc. I don't get it. It's a passive component right? Are we making a hen of a feather? Trust me, I don't trust anybody or anything, but aren't we already out in the open?

juiceme 2013-12-30 11:44
Re: [HOWTO] Comprehensive Firmware Flashing Guide for Jolla
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larswad (Post 1402047)
one thing I just don't understand in this discussion (not arguing, just don't understand). Why would the modem as a part of the SoC be a threat to the information integrity? I see it merely as a wcdma transport, if encrypted information goes in it just transfer it to the uplink, it goes over the rnc, to the downlink and to the modem of some other device. Sure, we don't know what goes on inside it, but if the data is encrypted it remains so the whole way. I suppose you say that there is a possibility or probability that it would relay the data to a third party (e.g. government)? In such case I suppose that weakness could be present through the whole chain, as usual. compromised servers etc. I don't get it. It's a passive component right? Are we making a hen of a feather?
There are designs where the modem (and other parts of the system which run closed firmware blobs) is a separate HW entity which is connected to the main processing engine via a serial bus. In these cases you can treat it just as you describe, a black box that transmits your data up and down.

However, in some other designs the HW running closed blobs can directly access the flash&main memory of the device, and you have absolutely no guarantees on what it is reading/writing there (and when it does so)
The Qualcomm chipsets fall in the latter category :(

Larswad 2013-12-30 11:54
Re: [HOWTO] Comprehensive Firmware Flashing Guide for Jolla
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by juiceme (Post 1402057)
There are designs where the modem (and other parts of the system which run closed firmware blobs) is a separate HW entity which is connected to the main processing engine via a serial bus. In these cases you can treat it just as you describe, a black box that transmits your data up and down.

However, in some other designs the HW running closed blobs can directly access the flash&main memory of the device, and you have absolutely no guarantees on what it is reading/writing there (and when it does so)
The Qualcomm chipsets fall in the latter category :(
Well that sucks horseballs, in that case I guess it's a somewhat different story. Its another weakness, but probably even worse since it has unrestricted access to *anything*, regardless of on-disk encryption.
Guess there could be reasons that we have no idea about why they want their modem code closed.
Thanks for the explanation!

nieldk 2013-12-30 12:13
Re: [HOWTO] Comprehensive Firmware Flashing Guide for Jolla
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larswad (Post 1402063)
Guess there could be reasons that we have no idea about why they want their modem code closed.
Sure, if its compromised. Well, there you go, full access to whatever on a system-level.
This is what I want to achieve :P

nieldk 2013-12-30 13:43
Re: [HOWTO] Comprehensive Firmware Flashing Guide for Jolla
 
To summarize possible ways to 'recover restore' Jolla:

1. We have images. Those can be restored using dd
a. On a working device in terminal. Allthough, this will give issues on some partitions, but, bootloader can be restored this way.
b. fastboot custom kernel with telnet access and using dd to restore backked up images.

2. Possibly using QPST tool (Windows, or perhaps Python script)
a. Not sure, but seems like images we have can be used restoring partitions. Windows only, unless Python tool can be used.

3. fastboot restoring images from SD-Card
a. There seems to be this option if entering fastboot mode without USB connected. We need to figure out what is expected on SD card here.

4. custom recovery
a. Jolla already made a simple recovery option to factory reset device. Can we create similar with backup/restore options etc.

ggabriel 2013-12-30 13:47
Re: [HOWTO] Comprehensive Firmware Flashing Guide for Jolla
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nieldk (Post 1402072)
Sure, if its compromised. Well, there you go, full access to whatever on a system-level.
This is what I want to achieve :P
Well, this is possible, but in modems of cheaper phones (dumbphones as they call it). You need some sort of kit though.
I guess the fact that the modem is locked down so much demonstrates how weak the cellular protocols are. I saw some nasty things being done with full access to a modem.
It does bother me, however, that the modem part can do whatever it wants. Time to move away from Qualcomm? :-)

juiceme 2013-12-30 14:07
Re: [HOWTO] Comprehensive Firmware Flashing Guide for Jolla
 
The gsm/wcdma protocol stack is somewhat trusting in both ends. There are some messages and structures that have integrity protection but in general it is assumed that neither RAN nor UE is delibrately malicious.

torgil 2013-12-30 14:09
Re: [HOWTO] Comprehensive Firmware Flashing Guide for Jolla
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerg_rw (Post 1401380)
For me not baltic sea but "will it blend"
Excellent idea to make your own blend.

Why not just keep the old bootloader to boot your image (factory reset) and for the the normal Jolla image, pinpoint which package that brings it in, modify it and share it ("ssu er unlockedboot").

djselbeck 2013-12-30 14:14
Re: [HOWTO] Comprehensive Firmware Flashing Guide for Jolla
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ggabriel (Post 1402042)
Have you considered asking this in together.jolla.com so that people can vote and Jolla can react?
Hello,

good point, although I mailed it to jolla I created this two entries:

https://together.jolla.com/question/...even-with-git/

https://together.jolla.com/question/...re-components/

greetings

joerg_rw 2013-12-31 10:03
Re: [HOWTO] Comprehensive Firmware Flashing Guide for Jolla
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by torgil (Post 1402110)
Excellent idea to make your own blend.

Why not just keep the old bootloader to boot your image (factory reset) and for the the normal Jolla image, pinpoint which package that brings it in, modify it and share it ("ssu er unlockedboot").
I don't have the time and no interest in a device that's not "unbrickable" and needs hacks or even exploits to work with it. I already abandoned damn harmattan due to this.
I could sell the thing on fealbay when Jolla wouldn't delay the red TOH which will cause significant loss of money when not included in such purchase.
Jolla for Murphy award.

/j


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