Re: Discussing JollaOy strategy
 

"Silica open sourcing. Well yes that has been mentioned, but due to lots of overworked people and a host of other things it has not happened yet. And unlike people think it is not as simple as slapping a license on it and put it in a public place."

Silly question perhaps, but; does the re-licensing of QT make this prospect more or less likely?

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...tem&px=MTc2ODI

Re: Discussing JollaOy strategy
 

Seriously if I was a Jolla employee and I was reading this whole thread I would have definitely resigned and search for a job in Apple/Microsoft giving the finger to Open Source and the whole OPEN ideology because if this is what you get for beeing as open as possible and you get that kind of responses from the community then why bother? (thank god that kind of responses only come from a handful of people)

Some people have to understand that Jolla is a company and as a company they need to survive financially, they are not a charity, neither a non-profit organisation. A tiny startup company that have to follow the rules of the market and those rules won't permit the level of opennes some people want to have for a thousand reasons.

So if those people keep bitching about some non real problem on forums like this and still haven't changed their phones (or have done that but still bitch arround here saying the same non-sense), then I am sorry this smells fishy (not sailfishy) about what they really want to achieve.

Life is too short to waste on that kind of tiny things, move on and stop trolling (unless you are paid to do so).

Re: Discussing JollaOy strategy
 

I don't think so.

Personally, I see this as one of Jolla's failures. It would be nice to have an "explanation" =) on why a component that is supposed to be entirely developed in house and for which there seems to be some demand is not yet OSS.

Re: Discussing JollaOy strategy
 

Is there a reason why the Silica components need to be open sourced?

Is there a benefit to Jolla and therefore the community for non-Jolla people to be working on the Silica components?

Does it make strategic sense?

It seems to be massively important to some people. Equally it's massively important to some people that the device can be reflashed. These seem like really minor things to me personally (I'd rather see CardDAV, better CalDAV and SIP _personally_) but perhaps I'm just not understanding why it's so important.

Re: Discussing JollaOy strategy
 

Ah, that's what you are afraid of - media. I don't think media are that evil like you suggest. If media are telling obvious lies about a product, then usually companies ask them kindly to correct that. Otherwise there are always legal methods for them to correct obvious lie. I remember when first reviews of Jolla appeared in portals like Engadget and The Verge. The review was shock to many people at Jolla - "how someone could criticize our absolutely awesome, ground-breaking and innovative child... ?"

I remember that just after the launch I was helping Polish portal dobreprogramy.pl to have chance to test Jolla phone. I wrote a mail to Stefano if he could get a phone for review and he said that I should contact Marianne Holmund which was handling press and making list of media wanting to review freshly released Jolla phone. But I have found faster route - short time later Thomas Ruecker (tbr) who was going to Poland in December agreed that he could help with giving his unit as he will be visiting Wrocław. So I wrote once again to Stefano, that there is no need as tbr already promised that he will give them the phone to review. Stefano answer was very, very strange and consisted of one sentence:

I thought - what the heck? Phone is already in the wild, on sale and anyone having a Jolla could give dobreprogramy.pl phone for review. I replied:

Stefano replied:

So in other words, that shows that Jolla didn't want for press to test normal Jollas at that time that people bought in store, but specially prepared ones to create illusion that the phone is better than it is. It's because they had big trauma after The Verge review:
http://www.theverge.com/2013/11/29/5...nds-on-preview

They considered The Verge review completely unfair, but it was entirely fair - what portal wrote in article was a set of valid criticism around issues they've encountered with the product.

So the whole problem was that Jolla employees were living in a bubble for a long time, how awesome and talented they are and what absolutely great product they've created that millions of people will want to have. Moreover, they will prove how Nokia was wrong to ditch Meego and get rid of the awesome people connected with it at Nokia. It was very important, it was a matter of honour and ambition (do you remember Vesku shouting on stage "Nokia were cowards"). That certainty has heavily crashed with first cold reviews, later with sales under expectations and withdraw of some European operators that previously wanted to sell Jolla (http://web.archive.org/web/201310060....3.dk/d/jolla/).

My theory is that atmosphere in Jolla is like of people trapped in besieged fortress for long time. "We were supposed to put world at our feet, but we are attacked from all sides"
Their overreactions to criticsm, calling people trolls, paranoid etc. if they have different opinions like Pango or me. Jolla employees try to misrepresent critical opinions, discredit people expressing them etc. Unfortunately some of the devoted believers of Jolla in the community are joining this and using the same methods. That way reasonable people, that are tired of candy PR will leave soon and Jolla will be in new bubble with its community believers.

Re: Discussing JollaOy strategy
 

It was quite beneficial to me, when developing, to look into the source code of Silica to understand how the particular element is supposed to work.

The QML part is open source already and I don't think I've had the need to look through through the C++ bits (if they were available), but I can't rule it out.

Re: Discussing JollaOy strategy
 

Keep in mind that tbr's phone was likely not a normal phone, but a developer's prototype with unreleased software.

So IMHO Stefano's reaction was justified and the right thing to do.

Re: Discussing JollaOy strategy
 

There is a benefit, people could try to adapt Sailfish UI for example for desktop or help to further develop it and fix bugs. Besides it's not about benefits, but about promises. If someone promises of open sourcing Silica components on biggest FLOSS conference in Europe - FOSDEM (2013), to make some buzz and attract people, then later withdraws, softens it's statement with every month, to make it only half open, then it is clearly not ok and PR trick.

Re: Discussing JollaOy strategy
 

Where in that page it says that they are going to sell Jolla in Denmark? By the way isn't that operator selling Jolla in Hongkong?

Re: Discussing JollaOy strategy
 

I think I have provided examples on this thread, but just a quick look more at the SIM card update from Jolla:

"After investigating this thoroughly we have been able to isolate the root cause.

Should you encounter any SIM related issues, please submit a request to Care and they will help you."

Here's a bit more transparent version:

"After investigating this thoroughly we have been able to isolate the root cause. Turns out there is small amount of left flanges missing from an early Jolla batch. In such a case, we'll install a left flange at no cost as part of warranty service.

Should you encounter any SIM related issues, please submit a request to Care and they will help you."

It really doesn't have to be very elaborate to be a lot more transparent. During the pre-order deliveries, quick progress note or few, with actual info on the progress, would have been more than enough too.

You could explain what the cause is, no need to go into the minute details. You know, there are options between no explanation and minute details. No? This is not your average consumer product, this is an early adopter, enthusiast product. People care about such things. And some info during the wait for a solution can help with the wait. I'd hardly consider a rough explanation of the operation the phone will undergo for a fix as minute details.

Looking at that TJC thread, giving some explanation seems to just common courtesy too. These people had been raising an important issue, why not respect them with an answer when they asked so many times?

Well, it was - and still isn't - my intent to imply a systematic SIM card holder problem. But I must admit, the silence seemed damning, as if there might be a huge problem to be silenced. That's what silence does. It gets filled with doubts and speculation. Like I said, I think it would be in Jolla's benefit - and that of the community - to increase transparency.

If you want to see it that way. In reality, what I'm asking for is neither unreasonable, nor unprecedented.

I am happy to hear there have been changes.

I have no personal issues with Sailfish development style. I think Jolla is also doing many things right there. That's it too, seems like on a software engineer level Jolla is working pretty solidly, it is the corp comms, strategic moves and phone business part that has been lacking transparency and openness.

And my experience is that there is a culture of silence, instead of a culture of transparency, in there (in the areas mentioned above). That is the external perception. Just letting you know. And by that I mean beyond what I'd reasonably expect as business secrets. I don't expect all being out in the open for a business, of course.

You mean fk_rx's list?

You can improve current communications. That would be the best way to show things have changed. Besides, I think you are about the first sailor I remember going into such detail and critical look on the matter in public. That's refreshing. Keep it up, smells like transparency. Import it to your work place too.

Perhaps the scale was minimal, but I still think the TJC thread getting some explanation would have made Jolla look better than what it now did. The point wasn't about a broken SIM holder in some phones (understandable, although unfortunate), it was about how to handle the complaint in the best way possible. I offered my views.

I guess you are referring to fk_lx's list, but I don't recall personally commenting on the FOSS aspect. I think Jolla's participation in FOSS projects is OK, although there have been surprising limitations actually making Jolla one of the less open source solutions on the market. But as I'm not personally very big on FOSS anyway, I don't mind that as much as some. I would like Jolla to be honest, frank and upfront about such things though, so improved comms and added transparency over these is always welcome.

Others are more qualified than myself to comment on stuff like Silica, but I think one reason again is the lack of transparency in the comms department. You need to realize that you are probably one of the bigger contributors from Jolla, regarding these tough issues, in months if ever in this thread. Keep this rate up and you'd be pretty darn near as a company to what I'd call transparent enough. :)

I base very little of my opinion's on fk_lx's vendetta. But in reverse, I would suggest that you - and others at and around Jolla - also stop ignoring fk_lx's view point because of his vendetta. The vengeful stuff is easy enough to tell apart. There are good points also in his posts, do take heart.

Like I said, I want Jolla to succeed. Lately I haven't been feeling the love.