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maemo.org - Talk (https://talk.maemo.org/index.php)
-   Jolla1 & TOH (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=56)
-   -   Update 1.0.9.n this week? (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=93830)

w00t 2014-10-03 02:24
Re: Update 1.0.9.n this week?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gaelic (Post 1441558)
I understand that the 'core' system should be as stable as possible. nevertheless it should be possible that some 'internal applications' are updated as the applications available through jollastore. This means for example updates for the mail application + new features incl. sync profiles etc.
Right, except that we don't have bundling of all dependencies of an application. Welcome to Linux, enjoy your horribly uncomfortable stay unless you have a large team of people who know what API/ABI stability are, and can also claim to keep bug compatibility.

(I've yet to meet those people, unfortunately)

The impact of this is that if you just upgrade one part of things, you massively bloat out the number of combinations you have to test. And if any of those have a problem, and you miss it, well done - you just broke an application for an end user.

Dave999 2014-10-03 05:00
Re: Update 1.0.9.n this week?
 
Hey woot. Welcome back. Didn't you steal the latest update before you left. Bring us the leak. We won't tell anyone :D

aegis 2014-10-03 07:38
Re: Update 1.0.9.n this week?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikiwide (Post 1441651)
Quick reply...

What is the part that you do not trust: the compiler or the code? If compiler, then compile it yourself, like Gentoo, or feed it to a trusted builder. If code, then read it, or wait for the developers whom you trust to read it.

Best wishes.
Neither or either. It doesn't matter. There is a trusted set of developers that have a duty to ensure a change is good and appropriate.. Jolla.

It's the same reason I take patches and updates from a restricted set of repos on my web servers rather than just finding a patch online and recompiling it. I can't review code for every change so I rely on professional companies with QA and support contracts.

nieldk 2014-10-03 07:52
Re: Update 1.0.9.n this week?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegis (Post 1441676)
Neither or either. It doesn't matter. There is a trusted set of developers that have a duty to ensure a change is good and appropriate.. Jolla.

It's the same reason I take patches and updates from a restricted set of repos on my web servers rather than just finding a patch online and recompiling it. I can't review code for every change so I rely on professional companies with QA and support contracts.
lol. If you dont know where to find the original sources, then dont install it.
hint! its GNU bash - use this search to find official patches
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...+gnu+bash+4.3+

javispedro 2014-10-03 08:20
Re: Update 1.0.9.n this week?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by w00t (Post 1441653)
You have no idea how amused I am that "smart watch" got presumably hit by the forum swear filter.
If you want more laughs, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=93648 (edit: wait, you already knew this :) ).

javispedro 2014-10-03 08:26
Re: Update 1.0.9.n this week?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vistaus (Post 1441641)
The keyword here is 'trust'. I trust Jolla and I trust OpenRepos.net .
/me explodes.

Dave999 2014-10-03 08:33
Re: Update 1.0.9.n this week?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by javispedro (Post 1441681)
If you want more laughs, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=93648 (edit: wait, you already knew this :) ).
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91316

javispedro 2014-10-03 08:33
Re: Update 1.0.9.n this week?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by w00t (Post 1441654)
Seeing the number of distros that ship complex things like Qt virtually unpatched at the .0 minor release, after knowing the amount of effort we had to put into 5.1.x and now 5.2.x to get them to a remotely product-capable level, makes me realise that the people testing them aren't really testing them at all. Either that or they're testing with a "hello world".
So on one side you have things like Debian Stable which ship 2-5 year old packages and take years to "stabilize", and on the other hand you have rolling distros which explicitly have minimal QA only (a glaring example is Sid).

You'd be surprised at the number of users Sid has.

I'm not saying one method is better than the other, but there's definitely some significant number of users that would choose "MOAR updated" even if it meant "it crashes every other day". I mean, google for "$DISTRO 'unstable' branch does not deserve its name, it's actually quite stable!!!!"-like posts where you get lots of people with questionable definitions of "quite stable".

Note personally I don't care about this. I use Gentoo stable, which is still stuck at a gcc version not much newer than what Jolla ships today, and Qt 4.8 .

gaelic 2014-10-03 08:48
Re: Update 1.0.9.n this week?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by w00t (Post 1441655)
Right, except that we don't have bundling of all dependencies of an application. Welcome to Linux, enjoy your horribly uncomfortable stay unless you have a large team of people who know what API/ABI stability are, and can also claim to keep bug compatibility.

(I've yet to meet those people, unfortunately)

The impact of this is that if you just upgrade one part of things, you massively bloat out the number of combinations you have to test. And if any of those have a problem, and you miss it, well done - you just broke an application for an end user.
Of course I understand the problems. Nevertheless it is achievable.

billranton 2014-10-03 09:11
Re: Update 1.0.9.n this week?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nieldk (Post 1441679)
lol. If you dont know where to find the original sources, then dont install it.
hint! its GNU bash - use this search to find official patches
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...+gnu+bash+4.3+
I appreciate the work you do over on openrepos, but the guy has a point about QA. That's the main difference between updates from you guys at openrepos and Jolla, and it's perfectly acceptable for someone to want to wait for the official package from Jolla that's undergone the sort of rigorous QA w00t is describing. That's the trust he's talking about - not suspicion of malicious code.

The problems back in March with bash are a clear example of that. It shouldn't be up to you guys to do extensive QA, so most people should get their stuff from Jolla and the store so they can be sure their phone will (mostly) keep working.


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