Re: Ask the Council!
 

I think that now elop&co have other things to worry about ;) But it's not a discussion for this thread. And yes, it's not decided yet, but it "defaults" to continuation of financial support (as per Qgil statements). Via regular Nokia practice, finances for next year are "stamped" mid-summer, so You must wait until then, for definite answer.

Why I think risk of Nokia's withdrawn from financing is very low? Amongst other things, it's the effort made to make Community OBS running, which will also target appsformeego, Mer, etc. Of course, current Nokia management is unpredictable (in the bad meaning of this word), and only due to that, I gave risk of 5% ;)

/Estel

Re: Ask the Council!
 

here's the link again: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/mae...il/005031.html

Re: Ask the Council!
 

I am not talking about the application itself, but for users data. 500mb should be enough for all users EZlists for example, or for all data for a contact sync app. Cloud apps that offer file storage already exist and are out of the scope of this proposal exactly for the reason you mentioned (funding).

Very few apps need cloud storage, maybe less than 10 for each platform. So allocating a total of 5gb to this purpose shouldn't be a real problem. If later on more apps need cloud space we could put a payment system and ask a small contribution from the users of those apps.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

platforms? i assume Fremantle & Harmattan (?) => 2
10 apps per platform => 20 apps
5GB to be shared between 20 apps => 256MB per app
EasyList mentions 100 user => 2.5MB per user per app
didn't really bother looking into what EasyList was all about, but had the impression it's a shopping list sort of thing (?)
doesn't really matter as with 10 apps, one can't limit the scope or nature, right?
2.5MB seems more then enough for a few shopping lists, indeed.
way too much, in fact.
would it make sense to allocate the space by user (qwazix, misterc aso.) rather then per app, so that the space that isn't used for one app could be saved for an other?

anyway, if encryption isn't mandatory, no need to count me in :eek:
sure our Polish friend will fret at how again i'm only talking but not doing :D :cool:

in fact, if encryption is only optional, you probably cause more harm to Maemo by all those "mainstream" publishers (which, like mobilegizmo's or the like think that m$ coming to mobile (like they haven't been here for over a decade ¦-) is the best that ever happened to the mobile world :mad:) an easy feast, like
«look how ridiculous Maemo / NOKIA / Open Source / expand !m$ list to heart's disgust... offer a cloud service... UNENCRYPTED (ROFL)»

not a good idea :(

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Yes ok, I made an error with the math (it was 5 in the morning) but I see you get my point. I think it shouldn't be hard to setup, and would give credibility to some applications who could benefit if they stored a few bytes online.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

and... encryption?
still (only) an option?

but yes, i agree that every Maemo app should get all the help & support it can

Re: Ask the Council!
 

I am of course all in for encryption. But I want to hear from somebody involved with the maemo.org infrastructure. Is it feasible? What type of encryption can we use? How can we make it easy for developers to test? Another smaller repo without encryption? Let's see if somebody from the council (or candidate) is willing to support this.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Well, I've already asked in the election topic but nothing happened. The election should start on 6 may as I recall. We have 10 today and under the link there is still nothing (or I can't see it ;) ). Is the election canceled?

Re: Ask the Council!
 

I'm not following up on this because I am a candidate in the election. We were told in the April council meeting that the election was covered. Somebody (even Qgil would be OK) should contact Nemein and tell them to get going though.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

So how to ping Nemien (what is his nick) on IRC or mail him?

Re: Ask the Council!
 

It is the job of the outgoing Council to ensure the election happens.
It's nothing to do with Nokia, IMHO.

SD69, just because you're a candidate doesn't mean your
responsibilities stop. Obviously you aren't going to do the work or
declare the winner, but it's your responsibility to liaise with Nemein
(X-Fade volunteered IIRC) to get it going.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Not entirely true, Jaffa. Direct access to voting infrastructure - including starting voting, etc - is available only to X-Fade&co (see old problems with Code Competition voting). Only one thing SD69 can do, is talking with them.

Yet, during last Council meeting, his partners on technical/Nokia payed side answered, that "voting is covered". IMO, SD69 was not able to do anything more *before* voting start date.

Although, I agree that now, when voting start time passed, it's needed to contact them again. To avoid "communication breakdown" ;) and hearing - after 6 months - that no one tried to contact them about this problem, we should not "ping" anyone, but fill official, trackable bug.

Which is the thing I'm doing now. I'll update this post with bug report.

/Estel

// Edit

Here it is:
https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12612
Please, vote for it.

Due to fact that I'm Council candidate too, I'll now comment, what do I think about it as whole. Especially, that it wouldn't be pleasant to read.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

i don't think "bug" is the proper way to handle this :(
it is an administrative issue, not a technical one.
e-mailing QGil or X-Fade (or anyone else in contact with NOKIA / Nemein (which is the company hosting some of the Maemo infrastructure, i think)) seems more adequate.
what are QGil's or X-Fade's e-mail addys ?

Re: Ask the Council!
 

X-Fade already said it was covered. It's not my responsibility at the moment thank you very much (if it ever was). If you want to help, then help. Don't show up just to purport to tell other people what to do.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Hey, people, lets not argue - at this point it's most important to get election going. We can treat is as another experience, and thing that new Council is going to have "serious talk" about, with our beloved tech staff.

We will see answer we're going to get on bug report. I hope everything is going to be fine soon.

/Estel

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Let us do argue, 6-13th of a month is a happy time for people who get their payslip around the beginning of a month, moving the election week/couple forward will make those positive emotions history. How about we disqualify unhappy people while we're at it? Voter fraud is voter fraud, lets call things what they are. (I know, tasteless, yet similar things have been practiced in US and sanctioned by the for-rich-courts, democracy my ***)

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Now this thing looks odd to me. All the positive momentum is gone with the wind. I do not understand how this thing works but one thing is clear. Nokia is a no go with such attitude. Soemone gets money for working with maemo as a community and again everything sucks. Not a good sign for the future.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Doweneed a separate account for the bugtracker? I don't seem to be able to login

Re: Ask the Council!
 

https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12612

We've got answer. It seems, that despite bug being posted in *correct* section (elections), it is assigned to Dave - person, who wasn't involved in anything Maemo for 2-3 years. How cute.

Although, I must admit, that Dave response was blazing fast (thanks goodness, without his reaction, we would be probably stuck for weeks), and we're working on forwarding it to correct person.

@qwazix
Shouldn't it be same account as for rest of infrastructure (*not* TMO)? It's working for me, at least.

@all
While I understand and *do* share Your frustration, please refrain from heating atmosphere yet. Yea - situation is miserable, shaming, etc, but our main goal now is to get it running. We'll talk about consequences, fixes, and responsibility after clearing main mess, ok?

Of course, it's just my personal "asking", no one need to feel obliged by that.

/Estel

Re: Ask the Council!
 

NOKIA pays the bills for Maemo.org.
they don't babysit the community
it's the communities' responsibility to organize itself & do what it is here to do... write code.

Council is a part of that organization
nothing more and nothing less

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Hi, I just saw the last posts in this thread. I have also assigned that bug to Niels, in case it helps.

Why not pinging or complaining in the maemo-community list, or directly to Niels & Henri?

I'm only posting and trying to help connecting dots because my name has been mentioned. It doesn't make any sense to have the Nokia contact facilitating the Council elections.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Because last time we did that, and after 7 months (!) we were told, that we should use official bug form, because X-Fade wasn't remembering that anyone contacted him via mail or IRC pings. So, we switched to fully traceable, recommended method of dealing with technical staff.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

They also pay people who should do things which are obviously not done. If you don't see it we have nothing to talk about.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Niels answered in bug comment:
https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12612

Well, as usual, "it's not his fault". Anyway, he require current Council input. I have no idea why he request such thing from a hat - it wasn't case during last election - but whatever... SD69, could You send him what he asks, and we could get this ball rolling already?

/Estel

Re: Ask the Council!
 

IME the council has always been involved in drafting the election announcement.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Yes. And falling back on "well, I raised it at the Council meeting so it's now not my problem" may be factually accurate, but it's not exactly helpful.

I'm not going to blindly quote "voting is covered". The exact exchange allows one to see exactly where communication has fallen down. Again.

-- http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-meeting-irclo...04-17T18:56:27

I'm guessing that SD69 didn't confirm the dates. If he did, X-Fade seemed to think he was offering to help with the technical aspects of the vote (the bits that dneary did in the past); not all the comms work (the bits the Council did in the past). If he didn't, X-Fade would've been waiting for the next step from Rob.

I'm assuming that there wasn't a follow-up email (there wasn't to maemo-community) confirming the dates and if everything was lined up. It's not leadership, nor management, to point - like a lawyer - to the exchange above and say "not my fault" when it is clearly the Council's job to ensure the next election happens and happens smoothly.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Instead of explaining what happened, how can we fix it and make things right?

Voting time has started and is almost finished and we still don't have votes. This is clear that it's a lack of organization and pre-planning on our (the maemo communities) behalf. This is something that should be dealt with, in the next council.

That aside, how can we rectify this situation as quickly as possible?

Re: Ask the Council!
 

@Jaffa
you're plain wrong here. Again.

"I'll confirm dates" mean exactly, that person speaking this, will confirm dates = Rob was waiting for X-Fade move.

Anyway, this discussion is quite pointless now, and I don't see what exactly You're trying to prove - if not questionable rationale about Your "bad communication" theory.

I just hope, that everything will be settled down ASAP.

/Estel

@Arie
It's already said, that X-Fade waits for some unnecessary "voting invitation" message and list of candidates (available from appropriate page for ages) from SD69. I'm sure the latter will send it to tech staff (I would do it myself, but they want it from current Council), and we'll be going.

Of course, we will have full voting period. We like it or not, but voting must end few days later.

/Estel

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Estel, I know you mean well, but stop posting in regards to what happened, all posts should be about how to rectify the situation as quickly as possible.

Nothing else should be on our minds except getting this done.

What happened can be spoken about after the fact.

Let's fix voting, get our council for 2012 in office, then work from there.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Answered You via edit. "What can be done" part was done already, see last two pages.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Has SD69 sent the required information to X-Fade at this point?

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Unfortunately it isn't (I can log in perfectly at maemo.org and garage.maemo.org but not bugs.maemo.org). I also tried to create new account and complains that my email is already in use. I tried all propable passwords (I hope nobody stores them for malicious use) but I cannot log in.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

@Arie
No, as he wasn't online since X-Fade asked for it.

@qwazix
I've checked it, and for sure login = Your email, and password is same as for wiki etc. Maybe try resetting it?

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Where is the rest of the council then?

Re: Ask the Council!
 

See https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12612#c5

Can you try to find in your mailboxes the text that was sent in previous elections? If you have it paste it in that bug report. Or here and we will move it there. Thank you.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Answering about 'what happened' only because Nokia's role or decisions are being questioned. We can postpone the debate until the new council is elected if you wish.

Ok, you are right and that makes sense.

Bug 12612 - Community Council election process isn't working at all history:


* Reported by Piotr Jawidzyk 2012-05-10 22:41:20 EEST
* Replied first by Dave Neary (former Nemein) 2012-05-10 23:12:43 EEST
* Assigned to Niels Breet 2012-05-11 04:30:14 EEST
* Acknowledged by Niels Breet 2012-05-11 11:51:01 EEST - NEEDINFO

Please point to bug reports that you consider mishandled / ignored.

Also, if you think Nokia should do anything different wrt current processes, current infrastructure, current maintainers, current provider or current funding please share your alternatives.

We want to work in the best situation possible. If the current situation is not good enough then we need to identify what doesn't work, how could it work better and go for it.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Huge thanks for helping on this, qgil. Unfortunately, I don't have previous Election's mail :(

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Done
:-)
/j

Re: Ask the Council!
 

that's called delegation
do you go bark at your companies' CEO every time the IT helpdesk doesn't answer one of your requests quickly enough?
probably not.
could you?
sure.
you'll make about 200% sure that it'll take even longer next time around you forget a comma or question mark 'cuz, "sorry, your request is not clear..."

bottom line, if you want to be babysitted, maybe it's time to move on to Lumia devices & have Bllamer tell you exactly how to do what where and when?

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Honestly, guys (and gals)
Next Council's election is a genuine and most noble task of current council. No matter what's to be done to make it happen, it's first and foremost council's duty to track and followup on it. (BTW a possible flaw in statutes, as a council not willing to drive its own replacement will simply not do anything, seems we're seeing similar situation right now)

If help of anyone from Nokia/Nemein is needed, it's up to council to ask for it, monitor it, and take whatever needed action to make it happen in time. Incl several times of asking what's current state and prognosis if any task got delegated.

BTW on topic "in time": tokens ought have been sent out to users several days, even weeks before voting opens - obvious, isn't it? Also much broader visible advertising of council election was desirable. E.G. on IRC I basically haven't heard a word about election form any of the current council nor from any of the candidates. That's already ~400 users that neither received any mail regarding election, nor might they be willing to scan tmo on a regular basis.

my 2 €ct
jOERG