maemo.org - Talk - Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms

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- SailfishOS (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=52)

- - Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=87764)

shmerl

2013-09-08 18:49

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lumiaman (Post 1372949)

How is open source more secure??

It has more potential to discover vulnerabilities. Recent revelations about backdoors in commercial closed code demonstrate it. It's much harder to discover such thing in a black box code.

zimon

2013-09-08 18:52

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms

Quote:

Originally Posted by jalyst (Post 1372908)

Being 100% open source is no anti-dote, they've actively gone after those models too.*
The only (slight) advantage, is that vulnerabilities would be found/closed more quickly.

Yes, but I would say it actually IS anti-dote. It just isn't 100% working anti-dote or sometimes it takes time to work.

It could be said based on the recent (hero) Snowden's revelations, open source IS THE ONLY WAY to be potentially spy-free and backdoor-free.
More encryption won't be the answer, more open source can be.

One of the most famous so far found security weakness in an open source software was the SSL weakness in Debian found couple of years back. A good lesson to all open source developers. It is a shame it wasn't found already then when two lines of code was removed between two revisions. That is why diff patches are for, not need to audit every line of code from start to end every time, just the changed lines.
https://www.schneier.com/blog/archiv..._number_b.html

Code:

        MD_Update(&m,buf,j);

        [ .. ]

        MD_Update(&m,buf,j); /* purify complains */

Quote:

Back when the NSA was routinely weakening commercial cryptography, their favorite technique was reducing the entropy of the random number generator. (written 2008 by Bruce Schneier)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikecomputing (Post 1372914)

to repeat what said already, take a look here what IS open:

Is there a same kind of lists of software which is IS NOT going to be OPEN (already known) in the Jolla Sailfish devices?

I remember there being re-license-request-tags in the bugs.maemo.org ("product=Licensing Change Requests").

shmerl

2013-09-08 19:02

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms

Quote:

Originally Posted by zimon (Post 1372953)

Is there a same kind of lists of software which is IS NOT going to be OPEN (already known) in the Jolla Sailfish devices?

Nothing like that is to be expected before the release. After the release such list can be compiled.

jalyst

2013-09-09 05:45

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms

Quote:

Originally Posted by zimon (Post 1372953)

Yes, but I would say it actually IS anti-dote. It just isn't 100% working anti-dote or sometimes it takes time to work.

Well that means it isn't a anti-dote. My point still remains, I don't dispute it being better for security, I dispute it being a "panacea".

jalyst

2013-09-09 05:49

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms

Quote:

Originally Posted by shmerl (Post 1372956)

Nothing like that is to be expected before the release. After the release such list can be compiled.

The open/closed make-up was broken down into quite a bit of detail in at least 1 thread a mth or 2 ago.
Do you know where to put you hand on that, that's what we can show him, for now at least...

zimon

2013-09-09 10:56

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms

Quote:

Originally Posted by jalyst (Post 1373035)

Well that means it isn't a anti-dote, my point still remains, I don't dispute it being better for security, I dispute it being a "panacea".

There is vaccines in medicine, which do not give you 100% cover against some virus, but where more people are vaccinated when time goes by, more changes the virus won't spread more quickly than it is terminated, and eventually the virus dies away.

So ok, call it vaccine then instead of anti-dote :-)

Same thing with security with open source software. There may be a backdoor somewhere, but giving time, chances someone finds the backdoor are increasing. If it is closed source, the backdoor will more probably stay there forever (IIABDNFI).

For example, the famous SSL weakness in Debian 2008. If it would have been closed source (MS Windows) the weakness would most probably still be there.

shmerl

2013-09-09 13:29

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms

Quote:

Originally Posted by jalyst (Post 1373036)

The open/closed make-up was broken down into quite a bit of detail in at least 1 thread a mth or 2 ago.
Do you know where to put you hand on that, that's what we can show him, for now at least...

Not sure how that was possible, since Jolla published no information about most applications they are working on. For example e-mail client and the like. The last time I've heard from them, info on those being open / closed and etc. will be avaialble only after the release simply because there is no info on them at all before the release. I probably missed that thread as well by the way, can you please link to it?

jalyst

2013-09-09 16:31

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms

Quote:

Originally Posted by zimon (Post 1373092)

So ok, call it vaccine then instead of anti-dote :-).

Lets not get into semantics here, it's called an "expression"... ;)
Folks know what is meant when such an expression is used, unless their English isn't very good of course.
As for the rest of your post, you seem to be arguing with me when I've already stated that I agree with the main thrust of what you said.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shmerl (Post 1373126)

No time ATM, if anyone else has an idea where it is please share, TIA!

mikecomputing

2013-09-09 19:48

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms

Quote:

Originally Posted by shmerl (Post 1372930)

It depends. One can be 100% open source, if one finds way to be profitable. Examples include Red Hat, Mozilla and others. Jolla are a startup, and are still figuring things out. I hope they'll find a way to make Sailfish 100% open source (I'm not talking about driver blobs here).

About NSA and etc. Things go way deeper than many even think. It's way beyond Google and co. already.
See http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...e-surveillance

I dont say NSA is something I like. But thing is most people are stupid *****s and dont care. They will continue to use facebook, buy android phones etc...

And about FOSS not possible. Yes I take that back, some companys can, but thats way different sectors than mobile/embedded markets where you depends on alot more manufactors to realese FOSS drivers etc.. As I already has stated in an old post: Jolla is to small get drivers or write FOSS drivers themself.

Jolla has to have another bussines plan if they want to be fully open. Licensing SailfishOS if fully open source will def not work.

shmerl

2013-09-09 22:19

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikecomputing (Post 1373206)

And about FOSS not possible. Yes I take that back, some companys can, but thats way different sectors than mobile/embedded markets where you depends on alot more manufactors to realese FOSS drivers etc.. As I already has stated in an old post: Jolla is to small get drivers or write FOSS drivers themself.

Jolla has to have another bussines plan if they want to be fully open. Licensing SailfishOS if fully open source will def not work.

I'm OK with drivers being closed. Writing their own drivers is probably impossible for Jolla. Even if they'll get into reverse engineering, there can also be potential patent pitfalls there and etc. But I was talking about higher level. Making the OS besides the hw adaptation fully open can be a possibility. In the future Jolla should expand anyway. I hope they will.

jendkers

2013-09-21 07:37

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms

[UI] Shape of the icons means something? or it's unorganized?

Mikkosssss

2013-09-21 08:43

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms

I think that in some video he said that theres 3 shapes and app developer can chose best that suits for it.

jendkers

2013-09-21 12:23

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms

I think that cool idea will be that multimedia apps will have corner on the left upper side, system apps left bottom or something like that :)

jalyst

2013-09-21 12:48

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms

https://sailfishos.org/principle-article.html
https://sailfishos.org/core-article.html
https://sailfishos.org/navigation-article.html

youmeego

2013-09-21 15:28

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms

I wonder how would Jolla or you make a simple, short and interesting Sailfish UI/UX(exiting an app, activating screen, where is the toolbar?) tutorial for iPhone or Android users?

For iPhone users:
Home button --->Swiping an app from left/right edge [avoid showing them how to close an app or accessing event view because it is kind of confusing to them]

thedead1440

2013-09-21 15:42

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms

Quote:

Originally Posted by youmeego (Post 1375875)

Ever seen the small booklet shipped with every N9? It explains things in the most succinct way possible and something similar should be more than sufficient...

Mikkosssss

2013-09-21 16:13

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms

And theres tutorial when you start phone first time.
Or do you mean that they wont buy it because it looks complicated and tutorial would help?

ggabriel

2013-09-21 17:05

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms

Quote:

Originally Posted by youmeego (Post 1375875)

I wonder how would Jolla or you make a simple, short and interesting Sailfish UI/UX(exiting an app, activating screen, where is the toolbar?) tutorial for iPhone or Android users?]

In general, rtfm.

N9 did a good job with the mini tutoral at the beginning, and there was also the manual.

I remember big-company-that-makes-phones-tablets-and-other-things saying in an advert that "you already know how to use it". What a load of rubbish. No wonder they ceased doing that as it was false advertising.

Kriek

2013-10-01 14:30

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms

Has there been any discussion regarding the web browsing experience on the new Jolla / Sailfish device?

For example, how does it compare to the N900 MicroB experience?

DeeGee

2013-10-01 14:49

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms

I don't think they have shown anything about the browser. Only claim I've heard that it's based on Firefox/Gecko (IPCLiteAPI) engine just like QmlMozBrowser/Meefox.

pre	2013-10-03 04:09

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms

This did not fit to the requested applications list, and therefore posted here as longish request list

The idea was was to connect people, forums, multimedia and high quality audio. It must be wireless, always on, securely connected trusted or non trusted multimedia player or a gadget with ability to connect with people and published (downloads) and streamed multimedia content.

*** connectivity & interfaces
- xG connections to have no boundaries for content and media downloads and especially winning the last mile download challenge
- xG network based secure end-user identification
- has dual simcard slots for multioperator usage
- has my secure device identifier with master pasword and security wallet for multipple paswords because there will be many communities
- WLAN connection to access for local cloud disc storage
- USB x.0 and eSata connection to access attached media storage
- HDMI out to connect to tv or multimedia / "stereo"
- supports multichannel digital audio
- HDMI is DSD capable for rich voice quality support
- HDMI interface support 4K/8K
- has BT for headset connection (binaural stereo calls)
- has std analog headset connection for headset
- act also as a usb storage only
- higres camera to view the pictures on big screen tv
- codecs and media package support
- must support stereo or MCH mobile phone calls finally
- device output interface supports DSD (MCH) bitperfect out
- reads iso media containers to offer backwards compatibility to current delivery media copies

*** to avoid the network bottleneck, the industry want to sell discs, but security copy of the end users' content should be in the trusted media cloud with customer identifier
- end user has access to the cloud with personal account
- if local storage HD go broken the end user enjoys the cloud back-up copy

JOLLA operating system has multitasking platform available that is good for rich and heavy interfaces & processing
Local applications like
- spotify client for music with bitperfect output
- a local high quality mch music player that is using the interfaces
- netflix for movies via hdmi
- navigator with offline maps
- slide show player/ archive for the pics via hdmi to tv

Make the dream unit as a portable mobile phone
- roadmap should have Jolla multimedia pad: JPad

=> The other half #5 is like an interface docking station for some of the ( optional) above listed rich interfaces for easy connectivity to "AV-Stereo-Video-TV" devices

Industry or the "community" is then making USB and HDMI based gadgets and such products that the listed rich interfaces support to Jolla other half

I wish for the best luck and spirit to the new beginning after old platform has been forcefully torched down in management speaches, ramp-down the sales campaigns, acts and trojan like gestures.

jalyst

2013-10-03 07:07

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms

I gave up on maintaining this & tying it in with it's sister threads a long time ago...
Others are free to pick-up the same process, can give them full access to the google docs, to be used in conjunction with the wiki entries etc.

bennypr0fane

2013-10-27 17:28

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms

There should be proper contacts management with favorites, grouping, etc. also, a really flexible calendar with full syncing capabilities.
Both were realized rather poorly in Maemo, big love to Jolla if they improve on this. Not all the love must go into the UI...

jalyst

2013-10-27 18:30

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms

Quote:

Originally Posted by bennypr0fane (Post 1382766)

I think the Nemo middle-ware would largely dictate how well this works*, so if you want to get a rough idea of where it's at, speak to some Nemo folks or try Nemo.

*Although there maybe some substantive twks that are unique to Jolla's layer

jalundan

2013-12-10 21:04

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms

Is there a possibility to create forlders for downloaded apps? Meaning like create folder "Games" and move all the games to the folder. :confused:

EDIT1: and is there a way to turn off the notification light on the front of the phone. The one that changes color, blinks, or stays on with certain events.

EDIT2: Is there a possibility to change the background image after an ambience is created? Or customise the colors? I get a sucky brown/orange theme when I use my dark and gloomy background to create ambience. It is not supposed to be cheery and poppy, but rather mellow and plain and dark. ARGH! :)

Tried to search the manual and web, but nothing on this.

jalyst

2013-12-11 04:51

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms

The main purpose of this thread was abandoned long ago, this is the most suitable thread for your post:
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91875&page=133

cloudbuster

2013-12-22 10:49

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms

I'm sorry, but I didn't read the whole chain of messages.

As Maemo user (N810, N900), I would like to install applications to be used in CLI in SailfishOS on Jolla device.

For instance I could install Python 2.7 (pkcon install python) but not Python 3 (which I would like to have). Irssi would be nice, perhaps vim too.

How can I add repositories to SailfishOS? Or where should I look for packages?

jalyst

2013-12-24 17:57

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms

This thread was never meant for this sort of post, aside from that it (kinda) served it's purpose long ago.
You're best-off starting a new thread in this sub-forum:
http://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=52
Or finding a relevant active thread there, or the other main sub (which is more hw/device centric)...

soahibk

2014-01-21 11:33

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms

can someone help me with

Android Support App

From Another source

Not Jolla Store ??

nieldk

2014-01-24 12:08

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms

UTF8 support modules
BT-HID modules (others ?)

Patching of drivers compat-wireless/Qualcomm Prima WCNSS drivers to support 1) Monitor Mode 2) Packet Injection

connmanager update to support proxy (sock4/5 etc)

idro	2014-01-31 22:26

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms

I know that there are some solution in together and a post in talk.maemo but......
When we will have an update or a program that just make the SD card "read-ble" for Android apps???
All andorid apps sees SD empty!!!

robnas

2014-02-10 11:19

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms

I miss exfat support by Jolla.
There's a thread here that's discussing exfat support and finding ways to implement this, but I'd rather see Jolla support it, because the topic about exfat looks more like debating Microsoft/patents than is about supporting exfat.

If there's patents/licenses, just ask Microsoft. I think the intention of ex-fat is not being closed source...

robnas

2014-02-10 11:22

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms

Splitting posts, because this is a new idea/concern:
I don't know if it's been mentioned before, but where's my sd-card when I attach the phone to the pc? I'm able to read the internal memory and there's a way to make a symlink to the sd-card, but that's a workaround...not a solution.

Talking about symlinks:
Will it be able to make a symlink in the android storage, pointing to the sd-card? I really want to move my Sygic-folder (can get lots of GB's big) to my sd-card.

mariusmssj

2014-02-10 11:44

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms

Quote:

Originally Posted by robnas (Post 1411953)

This might be helpful for you

youmeego

2014-02-10 12:00

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms

skype android app fails to make call on jolla!

juiceme

2014-02-10 19:10

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms

Quote:

Originally Posted by robnas (Post 1411953)

I don't know if it's been mentioned before, but where's my sd-card when I attach the phone to the pc? I'm able to read the internal memory and there's a way to make a symlink to the sd-card, but that's a workaround...not a solution.

What do you mean it's a workaround, not a solution?
Your SD card is where you mount it, you can well choose to put it whereever you want to.

robnas

2014-02-13 08:15

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms

Quote:

Originally Posted by juiceme (Post 1412031)

What do you mean it's a workaround, not a solution?
Your SD card is where you mount it, you can well choose to put it whereever you want to.

I mean there's no native support for seeing the sdcard on the pc. If there would even be to made the sdcard available as mass storage, you'd even can do more, such as using it as usb media device in car, or possibilities on pc such as formatting and errorchecking.

juiceme

2014-02-13 08:25

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms

Quote:

Originally Posted by robnas (Post 1412532)

Well, I kind of see your point here, maybe it would be useful for some people, for some solutions.

I actually prefer it the way it is, as there are plenty of problems/shortcomings in exporting memory card out via USB as mass storage;

If you want to export it as raw device, so that embedded applications like Car Audio Systems could access it or an external computer could do diagnostics&formatting, then you would need to have it unmounted from the internal filesystem when doing that.
That would require a state managing daemon for making sure there are no applications like camera, music player, whatever, ... accessing it when user wants to export it. That is a kludge IMHO.

toki	2014-02-25 00:09

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms

not sure if anyone has mentioned this or has found a way around this but... i cant find a forced sync option

as in.. calender, theres no option for me to sync manually

this makes me sad :(

chemist

2014-03-06 09:52

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms

Quote:

This thread's redundant now, can it plz be locked, & a final post link to this as it's replacement:

https://together.jolla.com/questions/
http://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=52
http://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=56

Thank-you.

Please follow the links above

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