Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

Having been a Sailfish user for close to 2 years I know pretty well what makes me happy. :rolleyes:

(looks at Jolla with old summer 2014 Tahkalampi that starts its native apps just a tad faster than my 2.0 preview, doesn't close music streaming apps and has powerful, double swipe cover actions)

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

Mini-Windows 8 feeling? You mean BB10 feeling? BB10 has the same covers as SOS but without cover actions.

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

so if without cover action ,seems like live tiles.

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Sorry my bad word choice, I meant to refer to the unsolicited removal of start menu in Windows 8.0, a start menu not really needed to run but already too long time embedded in the habit of loyal users to go unnoticed..

For example the phone app had a dial action and a go to address book action. (swipe left or right)
Thanks to 2.0 single actions I now even have a hard time recognizing my phone app.
Shortcuts for 4 favorites gone doesn't help either...

Now it's decided, I would like to downgrade to pre-2.0 for my daily driver.

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Good for you. Now please read what I said... guys. That's more than one.

And sadly, for Jolla to exist, they'll need more sales than the core provides right now. Thus, these refinements.

You're not happy? Didn't know. But since you quoted me; I'll do the same back to you.

Why do you think those things were removed? Or why do you think that trying to widen the audience is such a bad thing? I've seen BB10, Windows 8 and all kinds of incoherent ******** thrown about, but in the end, these changes happened for reasons.

Usually reasons that have seemingly grown past your likes/dislikes. Now, what will you do about it? Protest? Point out the changes ad nauseum? Or just take umbrage whenever a simple statement comes about that counters your stance and opinion?

Too bad there's a serious lack of native apps that were really compelling in their initial form. And with overlapping gestures, not sure that would be the way to go forward.

I am, however, sure that a good compromise is possible. But until then, I remain with my statement: nothing will make you guys happy it seems.

I'm still just sitting here, waiting on my tablet to arrive.

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That is a good thing imho.
on the contrary, there are enough place on the internet where everything companies do is hyped unquestioned.

What i have grown to love about TMO is the high level of criticism and people not hiding opinions.
At first i was drawn away from certain harsh critics posted here that often seemed "overreacted" and sometimes question the whole idea of Sailfish/commercial-Jolla from my POV.

As a relative newbe here i can only thank you all for providing a broad view on things and beg you to not hold back any critics or views, espacially if it looks like hurting the "status quo".

I am totally sure Jolla staff is reading here just like on TJC and takes what is brought up here with a proper amount of TMO-Salt.

The only thing to fear from that is people like filip linking here, ripping statements out of context...

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mosen u are right, they confirmed it to me on a tweet

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Sure, read that, and feeling addressed I am answering however not pretending to speak for the group.

Real refinements should happen under the hood and those refinements are the ones that will generate sales when performance and feature completeness are top notch out of the box.

A lot of effort went into the fine tuning of the Android sub system while they should be working to encourage not using Android at all (except for niche software)

Examples for need of refinement:

1) a basic functionality on every phone is to right click new called / missed call tel number in call history:

My old Sailfish phone app: call duration / send message / save as contact / delete

My new Sailfish 2.0 phone app: call duration / call (extra option:=refinement) / send message / copy / delete

Where is save as contact?

2nd Example:

The native Sailfish gallery with pictures in thumbnail mode offers a pull down menu with 1 option: "Select Pictures". Sounds promising doesn't it? Let's get productive with some batch action.
Then you start selecting pictures only to notice that the only 1 option available is: a trash can icon. How the..?


-> However when you click to focus on a single picture, there you are given options to mms, BT, share to 3rd party application like Jockr (Flickr). Normal expected functionality here.

-> In the email app you can select many pictures from gallery to email at once..

So it is possible to do stuff with more than one picture you select.

All in all a very inconsistent experience to say at least. It makes it hard to sell Sailfish as in "give it a week and you'll love it".
I have to be honest, after a year of usage I am still walking (swiping) into these "dead ends"

Jolla's developers should be using their Jolla phones more critically in real life instead of "studying" iPhones / Androids. ;)

Being different is not enough when logical work flow is interrupted at many critical places and the new user is finally using Sailfish to launch his Android applications.

It needs to feel more intuitive and logical yet familiar at the same time.

Still waiting for refinement much more than a tablet its painful to see see much work going into adopting the basic interface in order to lower the learning curve for Android users all while ditching smart interface design concepts unneeded - cover swipe actions and event carousel are compatible - and still while displaying frighteningly high skills of creating inconsistent flow

example: 4 favorite apps row home screen teaser - how to reach them conveniently?!

For the above remarks about favorites, you need to be a Sailfish user to see this for yourself and surprise yourself : what were they thinking? I would feel more comfortable if this was clearly flagged "work in progress, will be completed in release" now. Somebody?

So far there is some refinement but with too little attention for enhancing the native Sailfish user experience and sadly I start to notice the first stains of pissing in the pants to stay warm in winter.



Dropping basic functionality like cover swipe actions sounds like a game of panic football not so much reason.

Some say it was needed for allowing the new carousel design, but it isn't if you compromise to not swipe from center of the display but only from the borders.

Unlinke MS Win 8.0, Jolla has not time and money to try and see what will sell this year.

But I agree, changes do in many cases sell better than refinements.

Take something already good that doesn't sell, go change this or that even not for the better, then call it "new and improved" and relaunch it.

There is one of the reasons for many of the changes marketed as refreshed interface.

Take umbrage, (thanks for the new vocabulary), then vote on together.jolla.com :) I am an early investor / backer. Not a potential sub 10K Rupee Intex "Aqua Fish" user that will be presented with a device that comes cheaper in purchase at the cost of forced compromise to a "complicated" interface that luckily also runs favorite Android apps.



If they don't give up on refining those native apps , complete their functionality and open the door for application makers to integrate popular communication protocols seamlessly and keep them up to even after Jolla is gone , that seems like the way forward.

I'd like to see a Sailfish phone / device that is not an empty shell w/o app store / internet connection in 3 years.

If there is a serious lack of something (like need for another OS) you can also compensate it with ideology.
Fairphone with their modular phone concept seems like a good partner for Jolla that should have nothing against allowing multi boot Android / Sailfish / other OS. How far are the talks and how fair is Sailfish compared to Google's OS?

Jolla already was the compromise. I wasn't expecting happiness out of the box, but now it is taking longer than expected.

I understand that they have decided to release something and intended to finish it later, but to many usability / security options are still needed to be implemented and fine-tuned in order to make people want and love native Sailfish.

Changing interface concepts for every commercial prospect and "fix" lack of native app functionality by offering superb Android support is not bringing Sailfish up front the agenda of the mobile world.

1) stay away from major interface "refinements" 2) include basic functionality to get rid of necessity "wait for somebody to write app / patch " 3) enhance security options 4) try to partner with high end hardware maker

When you get it, please torture the hell out of it and post feedback on together.jolla.com when you have time.

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Real refinements cannot be restricted on UI or under the hood only. Average user doesn't give flying duck if there were gazillion improvements and features under the hood if learning curve to use them is too steep. Simplifying the UI eases the adoption of new (for average user) UI paradigm, even if some tricks have to be sacrificed because of it. Personally I like the new UI, it feels more polished, non-stuttering and consistent than the previous one, even if I had some reservations about it before the early adopter release. Just remembering the feature set of old Symbian phones... and how awkward it was to use at times. :)

Now, UI and Android support have been in the center of development because those are needed for the Tablet - Android apps ease the adoption by bridging the app-gap to other platforms and it needs to work out of the box. If it's as unstable and lacking as it were in the launch of the phone, it will be an utter, complete disaster. So, it's understandable that they have been given priority at this stage of development. Unfortunately it has been the trade off using different type of SoC in Tablet.

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Agree this version's interface feels very smooth as in "less graphic stuttering" when scrolling icons.
Android applications run very well and stable.
But I never have experienced so much general lag once several programs are open concurrently than with this version.

Of course we may expect the tablet with double RAM to run everything much faster.

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Ok, i came across this "news" already in February when i stumbled over the linkd video.
Now that a user over at TJC posted some kind of rant feeling betrayed or something, i would like to know if this was already discussed.

Link to the video of aigo x86 tablet

I was/am totally not surprised jolla is adapting sailfish to an existing hardware and we would see other manufacturers with similar builds.
What is the guy freaking out about, help me plz?!

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I'm quite sure it can be a good thing; in fact I think all things should strive for "perfection". The problem I have though, as a long time Linux user, I'd never endeavor to make a group happy that can't even discuss civilly a shell or text editor.

But we actually agree.

Apple? Google? Agree here. I didn't say nor think that questioning is a bad thing. But when the voices are not coherently saying the same thing, it equates noise. Noise is far too easy for a company to ignore unfortunately.

It's definitely why I stay here.

I'm not sold on that they're not overreacting quite yet. But it's passionate speech and constructive criticism that's needed by a company that's powered by people. So far, it's been just one huge bitch-fest of how folks don't like stuff and I've yet to see examples on how to make it better.

Just how it's gotten worse. Nobody benefits from such rhetoric no matter how anybody tries to spin it.

Agree. Thank you for adding your voice to the discussion. It's greatly appreciated and I hope that you add more.

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Now THIS is the kind of feedback that this forum and Jolla needs to hear/see. Not something so vague it looks like a whine; but a qualified take on what's different and more likely considered missing.

I get where you're going, some of these refinements look/sound like things were removed, but I wonder if there are use cases that support it or if it were just some arbitrary change.

And yes... trust me. When I get my tablet, I'll probably become a terror on TJC.

Thanks for clarifying your position. It's far easier to understand statements backed with facts than opinion steeped in angst. It sends a clearer signal (see above: noise) to all involved, especially the manufacturer.

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Aha, I've gotta admit I hadn't known about this before, but this kinda makes the constant delays make sense to me now. :) So, Jolla was originally working with a design created by someone else, which is why they seemed to be able to come up with a such a high-end tablet in such a short amount of time last year. Then, they started fiddling with it, particularly adding a new high-end display; and with that, lost most of the advantages in speed they gained by choosing an off-the-shelf solution. :)

And, I would imagine, they're still facing repercussions of their design choices now, as they don't have 100% control over the design or manufacture of the device. On the other hand, if it does still retain any significantly identical parts with its sibling device(s), it should be easier to get replacement parts / replacement devices in the future.

(Also, this would probably explain the very strange user manual that TabletMonkeys gained access to a while back...)

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That thing was a fake.

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Maybe he is freaking about the "designed in Finland: :D

It is a myth that these kind of low end electronics are being designed by other companies than the usual Taiwanese / Chinese tech giants.


You want buy tablet pls fill in form:

Own case / Reference case (Print own brand included)
Dimensions 5, 7, 9"
Thickness
Based on above choices the rest is exclusion list based:

Display resolution / type
Battery removable yes / no
Camera yes / no
Chipset
Memory slot
Charger type
Functions enabled: BT / Wlan mode / 3G / FM Radio Rx Tx / NFC
RAM (max..)
eMMC size
boot loader

Fill in qty desired

Find price / piece.


Personally I found that the SD card slot gave it away :) Open like that is typically Taiwanese, not scandinavian at all.

All I can say: please more sailfish on Chinese hardware! Why we have only 2? :cool:

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One needs to provide country of the form filler/designer, this is where Finland comes into play

[edit]: annd frankly, with nokia going bust, it did seem like patriotic/nationalistic campaign to save finnish industry would be a piece of cake, jolla's marketing did fail tremendously, <50k phones sold with so easy to use angle... Maybe it's nokia's fault, somehow doubt it

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Just a couple of minor points/answers:

The 'Save as contact' command is still there on my Jolla under the latest update (1.1.9.28)

As for the second option, you still have the instant ability to launch three programs from the pulley menu in the lockscreen, or swipe up, and they are all there.
The only instance where it is harder to launch your favourite apps is from the home screen, but then you didn't need to go there in the first place to launch the app!
And there also remains the option to not close your favourite apps and use its zombie cover to launch it from the homescreen.

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

@mrsellout

Just a couple of minor points/answers:

The 'Save as contact' command is still there on my Jolla under the latest update (1.1.9.28)

--> thanks so much and good to know that it is only gone for me

As for the second option, you still have the instant ability to launch three programs from the pulley menu in the lockscreen, or swipe up, and they are all there.

-> Lock screen ok, I know that and have flashlight, calculator, voice recorder there in that pulley menu for quick access when my phone is locked :cool:

But I need to lock my phone first to access this menu where before I could use it when unlocked. :rolleyes:

Yes swipe up brings me a nice I con grid. Why, was I asking where are all the icons?


The only instance where it is harder to launch your favorite apps is from the home screen, but then you didn't need to go there in the first place to launch the app!


Yes and that homescreen / multitasking window happens to be where I hang around when I am thinking about launching an application.

Swipe up to bring up full icon grid for camera, try to reach top list. Ok let's strategically move camera to lower part of grid so I look less clumsy.

This is not making me love Sailfish. It is making me feel that handling a random persons Android is not so bad after all because also there I am browsing in icon lists.


And there also remains the option to not close your favourite apps and use its zombie cover to launch it from the homescreen.

Thanks, I been there trying it out and I feel sorry for Jolla that I now have to do it this way.
You need to arrange your zombies in a familiar order. They even created one step to much before you can drag them around (long press to bring up "close app crosses", then long press again on app to dragg it)
Also they changed the icons of minimized apps and for example camera is less clear.
(can be confused with gallery cause it also changes background with picture),

phone app icon is also less clearly recognizable.

(before you had dial and contacts mini icon in one minimized app and you could launch both, now only dial)


Conclusion of a long story: I can still launch apps. Thanks.

Why am I writing these comments under Tablet?

Ok maybe here Sailors will be reading opinions during processing of the next blog update on the Tablet :)

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Aha, the tablet invitations FAQ is back! Hopefully this time for good. Still has the same dates as well (such as a mention of the 24th of September, although I don't know the significance of that date). But yeah, hopefully, some folks are now receiving e-mails to finalize their tablet distribution:

https://jolla.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/a...nvitations-FAQ

EDIT: And even better, a blog entry:

https://blog.jolla.com/jolla-tablet-operations/

https://cdn-blog.jolla.com/wp-conten...7_1024x480.jpg

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and invitations seem to be coming too:
https://twitter.com/LiKimmo/status/646295366762008576

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I can confirm got email just now

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I got it too.

And after checkout the tablet is still in my cart so you can order as many as you want :)

(I don't know if that will work)

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What are your pre-order number?
I would like to know how many invitations they send today. :rolleyes:

I hope I will get mine soon (in the next days) but I think my number should be something with 9xx of the first early birds batch. :(

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Hmm, that's not supposed to happen. From the FAQ, the cart is supposed to be emptied after checkout:

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# 152

tenchars

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#114 :D

10chars

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Seems the small group is not that small :) I'm 42 btw, and this answers everything ;)

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Is there a Sailfish app to check my pre-order number? :?)

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About time! Waiting for invitation... may take some time though, this time I wasn't exactly one of the first ones. :)

I'd appreciate if they shared some information why another delay, now that things should be rolling again.

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They may be talking about the order number once you pay VAT as opposed to the contribution number which indiegogo doesn't seem to have (unlike kickstarter ;) ).

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I go invitation too and paid VAT for 2 tablets and Lastu case just now!
So excited wooo...:)
Apparently #194 though I remember I was in first 50 who ordered in IGG.

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I'm rather excited for you early birds, looking forward to seeing your unboxing vids and and first impressions. I still have some time to wait yet for my invite (I was away from home for the announcement).


Can I suggest adding your tablet contribution dates too? This might be helpful for us and those late contributors to gage how many are shipped/sold and where they are in the queue. ie...

Pro-order number:1234/waiting for invite
Contribution date: 31/12/2014

Me:
Order number: waiting
Cont' Date: 22/11/2014

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Me:
Order number: waiting a few months I guess
Contact Date: 11/12/14

edit: any idea how many tablets jolla planning to ship at this stage?

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One per day and those bashing will be queue.pop() => queue.put_last()

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Are we talking about the Indiegogo backers? If so, I was among the first 100 but I haven't received an e-mail yet...

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I tried to find my preorder number, but couldn't find it anywhere. Where did you look up those?

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no way to get it unlike kickstarter :/

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Hmm how do you know the queue nr?
At least in the Indiegogo mail it was not stated?