Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

By contrast, ironically, my Android 2.3 running Samsung Galaxy Tab 7 STILL gets MOST of my usage even though I have several devices--some running Android, and it's not even running the latest version of Android or the fastest processor or anything. I love my Galaxy Nexus but that 7-inch form factor with a REALLY good Hummingbird processor that can still keep up really well even with NEW games is truly impressive. Once in a while a REALLY good device comes along that really earns its value--for me, that turned out to be this Tab.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

My FM-Transmitter keeps dropping the jaws of all my iPhone friends. They think I am able to hack into their radios. :D

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

About Android:

Old school software-guys can never understand and agree Java (or any interpreted based language) software platform can be efficient both in performance and battery wise. Although Android has already proven the points by selling numbers both to IT-experts and to common people and anyone can buy a Android device and see himself.

My friend's dual-core 1.4 GHz Samsung Galaxy S2 can run longer
and more complex (Java) applications with 1650 mAh battery, than my N900 (with 900 Mhz CPU and 2x1320 mAh battery) which have mostly native (c++) applications.
Many old school software professionals just won't believe it would be possible, but it is, and anyone can try himself quite easily.

I am referring to this discussion thread:
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=68730

The best platform for me would be the main branch Linux kernel based OS (OSS Tizen) with Dalvik VM so Android-applications could be run as well as in any high-end Android-device.
I would not miss Qt, although I wouldn't mind having it also as an option. I hope Samsung will make it happen. Tizen alone without Dalvik support may not succeed.

And about Nokia and its stock price; both deserve the state they are in.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Lets talk WP stock....

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I sincerely doubt anyone using an iPhone listens to the radio anymore. :) VIDEOS OR LIES!

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I see Nokia stock has managed to ONLY go down three cents over the past week. Maybe it's finally stabilized to its new true price. 'Course, if it remains less than $5 per share for much longer, it's going to be under threat of being de-listed from the exchange and relegated to the penny stocks markets.

PROOF! You CAN reach your goals!
http://tctechcrunch.files.wordpress....fail.png?w=640

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I got my computer industry start runnung a program called DESQview, which could really multitask in the 1980s. I would rather be running that on a DOS computer than Android. And I DID get ICS yesterday, BTW.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I got interested in this thread because of the links provided - usually a good filter from all the noise and repetition you can get on this topic out there. Some links from this week that are missing here:

http://seekingalpha.com/article/5358...are-from-apple

http://thenextweb.com/insider/2012/0...-bought-nokia/

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8FR3U120120427

http://texrat.net/lets-buy-nokia/

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

LOL :D I'm sure browsing the web, sending e-mails, watching videos and listening to music works like a charm on Desqview/DOS while relaxing on the couch :D

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I think Nokia/WP 7.X is nothing but a stop gap solution until WP 8 comes along with NT kernel. The current line up of Lumias has proven not to be competitive, and Nokia/MS has to do some real changes no matter what. WP8 is a huge step in the right direction, but even that may not be enough, or it may be too late.

Spec, apps, updates and a good design is what is needed. The Lumias got a good design, that's all. Updates is irrelevant as long as the Lumias lack specs and apps.

A no nonsense quad core ARM or dual core Atom, 1.5+ GHz, PureView camera and 4.5 inch CB Amoled running on Apollo would do. Anything less will not do it today, the Androids will eat it for lunch.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I would ask "Which proof are you referring to?" and I would post a couple more links, but then we would deviate from the topic of this thread.

What about discussing Lumia / Windows Phone competitiveness in the Competitors forum?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

The 800 and 710 have been here for some time now. At top 20 at any store they are below 10 already. This basically means way below the sales numbers of the top 5. One x an s and sgs2 rules. The sgs2 has ruled for a year as top seller. The x and s from htc was instant hits. Nokia/MS just have to do much better than this.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Back on topic guys: Let's talk Nokia stock!

Qgil: as maemo community best friend, can you give us a hand in buying Nokia out once it hits 0 as all here and in few other threads are predicting to happen? We could then opensource maemo (diablo/fremantle/harmattan) for 0$ win-win

Who should one contact in IP matters (assuming for example an individual is interested in buying component patents) in regards to maemo?

EDIT: to clarify, don't have the money (yet), just curious how many zeroes they put on dead devices

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

hits 0 you cant be serious? that will NOT happen. Seems too me some people havnt a clue about how economy works.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

No, as the only economy wizard out there please predict the future

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

My goal as nokia stock owner is go fire elop and bring back maemo and a new and improved n900. No success yet. Have to send vote to nokia before next meeting.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

You mean, like this one?

By the way, the Tech News Today podcast covered this as well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWVxiyeIZc8&t=17m23s

The irony here is that for every ONE of those articles you posted, there are a LOT more to contradict the point you're trying to make by posting it. That's not really all that important, though, when the facts boil down to the inherent truth of the matter: Nokia is slipping, slipping fast and its current offerings and customer relations are exceedingly sour and it doesn't look like Nokia is trying to address the problem. Case in point: Your platform is burning? Hook up with an even LESS POPULAR and WORSE-SELLING platform. Nokia's management and executives have not been very receptive to criticism or listened to their customers or engineers in a very long time now and it's showing clearly. If posting a few URL's among a flurry of opposing news, facts and opinions is supposed to convince us, then those who are convinced to invest, buy products or otherwise maintain a brand loyalty with Nokia deserve to be stuck with that sinking ship.


What's wrong about discussing Nokia platforms and products competitiveness (i.e. Lumia / Windows Phone--your company adopted it, we never asked for it) in a thread about Nokia stock and how it's performing? Particularly when this platform is the one that the company is hoping to marry its future to so closely? Just because it is doing badly doesn't mean you should be able to wave a hand and dismiss the criticism or talk about that platform's effects on the company's stock or performance in general. There's plenty of PROOF about how poorly it's working out--you just prefer to label it as 'static' so you can conveniently ignore it. It's pretty naive to show up in a thread about Nokia stock and try to convince people it's doing just fine under the current circumstances.

Here's a better question than yours: Do YOU have some FACTS to disagree with the assessment that the stock is doing badly and headed to worse? I'm not asking for your opinion or personal assessments, just facts--especially since you're outright dismissing ours. Unless you do, perhaps you shouldn't yet participate in this discussion and wait until you do. We'd LOVE to read about them and would welcome those discussions gratefully.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Cool you ask for FACTS when you link to blogspam. So many FACTS were posted here (like Tomi Ahonen: Nokia store was great - yup every developer loved to test and provide fixes for 20 or so symbian devices vs 1 iPhone; blog said so = FACT) that all the CEOs are running scared. OPINIONS of fanatics would be a better label. Sorry danramos.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Perhaps not quite on-topic, but since this seems to be mostly about Nokia's amazing destruction anyway...

I was today at Espoo horse race track. My amazement was quite high when I suddenly saw OPK appear on the track and being interviewed. It turns out that he owns many horses and one of them just made him 50 000 euros by simply running around the track fast.

Now if anything, I'll take that as a rather good example about the state of western society. Ruin truly unique corporation with century and half of tradition and earn a fortune by doing it. So, while the canadian idiot is busy destroying the ashes left by OPK, the man himself is busy having "hobbies", as he described it on that interview on track, that include having stable full of elite bred horses, employing brilliant horse trainer, stable boys, jockey and a race team manager. How I wish that my failures paid off like that.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Having ridden N900 for a year, I have to admit this is a reputable stable. Maybe not the fastest in the recent runs, but still never failed me half-track. Wish they provided the whole DNA, so I could switch few pairs here and there, but in comparison to zebras... OPK rocks (or are we talking about the french sexually abusive guy??? this would change a lot)

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Even though there are pessimists and optimist who take it too far there is no denying the fact that Nokia are doing very poorly.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Since when it's an irony to add different viewpoints to a discussion? Those 4 links come from different sources and have different argumentations. I found them interesting and shared them here. Is that bad?

I have tried to explain here why I believe it's wrong to grow more posts on Lumia and Windows Phone out of the Competitors subforum (being Off-Topic an alternative). As many users have reminded, this is maemo.org. Your opinion is welcome in that thread.

So really, my problem is less about discussing Nokia products and platforms in this thread, and more about the location of this thread under General. I'll post the couple of links below and these will be the last Lumia / WP related posts I'll have out of Competitors / Off-Topic. You are invited to do the same.

I'm not a financial advisor. I'm not trying to convince you. I just posted 4 links that I still believe contribute to this thread. On a Saturday morning and because I actually find (the on-topic posts of) this thread interesting. You don't like them? Fine, no need to throw such a reply.

What facts am I dismissing? Again, I just posted 4 links. I have read all the rest, it's just that it's not my style to reply to every single thing, post funny images, etc. I try to post whenever there is something new to add.

The only facts about stock prices are... the stock prices. If I would have facts about future stock trends then probably I would have another job. What else?

One fact is that Lumia 900 is selling well in Amazon and it is getting very good reviews from US customers: Black, Cyan. Taking into account the customers reviews on the Lumia 710 and Lumia 800 one can see a trend. Amazon is considered an interesting barometer on user reception and sales at a wider scale.

Another fact is that the big majority of Lumia 900 reviews do praise the product. I guess someone like Steve Wozniak can't be considered a new smartphone user or a Nokia fanatic, and he also seems to like it. The bottomline: Lumias are good products, and their first steps in a very competitive market are actually promising.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Here for instance. Hard news, no blogosphere hope/wish/feel just to attract readers or misplaced company/OS/brand/[whatever] loyalty:
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/0...83G08Z20120417
Nokia Lumia phones are not competitive against Android and iPhone. For Nokia stock to go up, their products has to be competitive in the market. Symbian phones are in free fall, and Maemo/MeeGo has never been competitive.

One thing that would improve the situation, but by no mean fix it, is for Nokia to confirm that Lumia will be upgradeable to WP8. However, the only real hope for Nokia right now is that WP8 will enable them to make phones that can compete with top of the line Androids, like the HTC One X and SGSII/III. Lumia 900 is way behind those phones, but with the same price tag.

Lumia gives the user a nice phone with a nice user experience. That is not the issue. The issue is whether that niceness is relevant in the current market, the answer is NO! That NO is coming from both end users and operators. End users don't buy them and operators don't want them.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

COOL! I added that as a 'by the way' aside to the article I quoted ABOVE it as the factual article. Very cool of you to make such a cool mistake! VERY cool to some, I'm sure. Cool cool. :rolleyes: Sorry szopin.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

if nokia doing pretty well then why samsung can overtake nokia? LoL, believe it or not, wp is a fail, huge fail

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Olli-Pekka Kallasvuo hasn't been Nokia CEO since 2010, when Elop started. He has probably made mistakes but nothing in the magnitude of Elop. Even then, I don't see what does him having hobbies now have to do with Nokia.

Jorma Ollila is also leaving Nokia now and it appears that he didn't have any real power over the company in years. Ollila was about to choose Vanjoki as the CEO but American investors told him to choose Elop or otherwise they would change the chairman.

I bet that Siilasmaa won't do any better. Finns are scarce in the board already, and apparently the ownership of the company has been slipping more and more to the USA.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I think the implication is that he started this suicidal nosedive into failure. Sure, Elop literally ACCELERATED it to fatal levels, but OPK was the one that put the company in a position of needing a new CEO. Now, he's enjoying the benefits of a wonderful golden parachute while Nokia, Finland and much of the workforce suffers for his decisions that got us to this point. I'm sure the workforce that has been stuck without a job or means to get by would LOVE to know that their former CEO absolutely ADORES taking care of horses. He certainly didn't seem interested in taking care of customers or his responsibilities with the company.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

This is not Nokia's call. They are a contract manufacturer for Microsoft now.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Elop is an incidental traveler. N9 beta feel is not Elop's fault. Nokia had at least 2 years to optimize the software, if not longer. You would think that the device that follows N900 would be better optimized. Its a sign of lazy software engineering and insufficient resources.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I'm still trying to find a broker that would get me a printed stock certificate without costing me more for that than it would for almost 50 Nokia stock.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I vowed to myself that I would not reply to you but calling the software developers at maemo lazy while completely excusing Elop (as an "incidental traveller") for Nokias current state annoyed me enough to reply, just in case anybody believes your nonsense. The N9 software did not have two years. Meego was announced in February 2010 and pretty much destroyed in March 2011 by Elop. Elop took over in September 2010. The insufficient resources were Elop's doing he not only did not help its development but he cut resources while announcing the platform as pretty much dead. All this before the N9 was even released. It's funny that both you and Elop keep talking about a transition and the countless billions it's costing Nokia yet Meego had its budget cut and given less than a year to bear fruit. in fact it was announced dead before a device was even released, how could it.

Even if we say 7yrs in development (maemo instead of meego) and the limited resources. You think it's not a valiant effort? You want me to believe this was lazy software engineers and not Elop? This is lazy compared to what? the 12yrs and unlimited resources MS had to create the sub par Windows phone that Elop adopted?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

The argument most folks that love WP7 blindly is that they started from scratch to build what we know now as WP7 - totally disregarding that there's Windows CE 6.x lurking in there somewhere - and that Harmattan had been lurking in one form or another since 2005.

That latter part, not true fully. Sure the kernel and parts of Harmattan have been around for a while, but the Harmattan UI is pretty dang new. A small group of dedicated engineers put that entire UI/UX together and did it without massive amounts of funding, did it without the support Symbian has enjoyed... did it because that underfunded group wanted to do something special and did it in under 2 years.

And it worked. Lazy? I'd never say that about the Harmattan group.

And pertaining the pieces of stuff laying around that's "old" in Harmattan; older exists in WP7 still. It's going to take WP8 to break that cycle... by going to the NT kernel.

Which is... older.

That (to me) smacks of laziness.

I'm off of my soapbox now.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

You have a point there. Nokia has never been a software company. They have Nokia OS (S40), but that is only a small and "simple" baseband RTOS. Symbian was made by Symbian, and S60 (on top of Symbian) was a complete mess. OVI was a complete mess, even maps was a complete mess. Maemo is the only exception, and although we can argue indefinitely on this board about the merits and potential and the causes, the fact remains that the merits did not live up to it's potential after years of development on several devices.

It was when Nokia decided to take the entire OS/software portfolio in their own hands it started to go down. The Maemo/Symbian roadmap looked nice on paper, but without teams lead by seasoned and absolute top OS architect and programmers, like the ones found at Google and Apple, well the whole roadmap was nothing more than wishful thinking with no base in reality. It is not before Nokia Belle that Symbian finally is almost on the same level as Android was 3-4 years ago regarding UX.

Samsung did a similar blunder with Bada. Bada is a very nice OS from the perspective of the end user. Architecturally however, it is a disaster because it is practically impossible to port apps from iOS/Android without starting from scratch due to namespacing and libraries. A simple rewrite is not enough, a restructuring of the entire code of the app is needed. If Bada became big, this wouldn't really matter, but how will it become big when it has no killer apps? Luckily (for Samsung) they went for Android when WM and Symbian just didn't cut it anymore.

In hindsight it is obvious that the cardinal sin made by Nokia was not going with Android at first chance. Cardinal sin number two was not going with Android at the second chance. Cardinal sin number 3 was going with WP7.X believing it would enable them making competitive devices. Another sin (although not that cardinal as the others) was to kill Maemo. Maemo could live happily as a niche selling 2-3 mill devices a year. Maemo as in a world wide dominating force (as many of you in here like to think), forget it, such thinking will only destroy it, they way it has done.

IMO the battle is still not lost. WP8 built on the NT kernel could be what brings Nokia back because it enables Nokia to go with top HW of choice. Time will show. For now, Android rules because everybody makes juicy devices running it. ICS is juicy all by itself as well.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

To be fair nokia acquired Qt in 2008 and before that focused mostly on their (failed) services strategy. Software development takes time.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Now that Nokia is getting all this negative press, stocks are junk. How much sales will they loose because of that? I think that results for Q2 is going to be a disaster.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Qt? Qt has been around for ages enabling cross platform UI amongst other things a decade before Nokia came in. The only thing Nokia did was to inject a small amount of money so they could make Qt Creator. Besides, IMO Qt is just as much of a cpu hog as Java or Dalvik, even though Qt is supposed to be "native". Why isn't Qt optimized more than it is? It's not like Nokia didn't have time to do it.

Someone should make a real comparison in terms of performance between Android and Qt, taking measure of the actual overhead involved. It is not like the mechanisms in Qt comes for free. For instance, the N8 and HTC Magic have roughly the same CPU and clockspeed. The Magic runs Android 1.5 from 2009, the N8 runs Symbian Belle from 2012 and have a very powerful GPU. The Magic UX is more fluent and faster than the N8. Another comparison is the Nexus S and the N9. The Nexus S is far from the fastest Android today, still it runs ICS better than the N9 runs Harmattan.

Back on topic. Acquiring Qt was one of the right things Nokia did, but as it seems now, it was all in vain, because the roadmap (Symbian/Maemo) was nothing but a dream with no base in reality. What's pushing the stock down, is the lack of optimization of Qt on Nokias handsets. If the reason is that Qt doesn't really deliver what is promised, or that Nokia isn't able to make it deliver, it doesn't matter.

The UI. Be honest and pick the best UI for you of every UI you can think of. For me it is Belle or native ICS. Metro is far down the list, Swipe not so far down, more or less along all the branded Android UI's. I think I have most people with me on this except the iPhone crowd perhaps. I don't think the UI is all that important at the end of the day, but the point is, when given a choice most people would prefer just about everything over Metro. Nokia has made both Belle and Swipe, UIs that are praised by people and tech-news. On their flagship devices they use Metro. I mean, of course the stock slides.

The second Nokia releases a competitive device, the stock will rise. It's as simple as that. Why don't they?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Mobile apps are mostly like toy-apps if you compare to computer applications. Load times and other types of functionality affects how fast the app is.
As mobiles is becoming more and more advanced apps are going to be more advanced too and the importance of speed and power consumption (C++ is king designing apps for low power consumption) will increase.
I think that Android is moving towards native C++, more parts can be used natively by native languages.

The first android versions was running java apps interpreted.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

art of technology, let harmattan improve and keep it alive, nokia i hope you read this

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I think people put way too much faith in having their voice and words heard and read; I'd rather my voice and words acted upon instead.

Nokia fits a german word perfectly, eigenwillig. No longer listening to reason, no longer willing to accept other options.

Their stock is paying the price. I'm still trying to get a stock certificate from them before it drops to a penny stock.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

http://i49.tinypic.com/8y5n44.jpg

A honest question, have you ever written anything more complex than a Hello World app in both Java (running in JVM or Dalvik) and Qt (running on whatever platform you want)? Trying to determine if just ignorant or dishonest...