Re: Discussing JollaOy strategy
 

There are some things I think Jolla does very well.

Working with upstream projects in collaboration with other stakeholders is generally a pretty good example of that. We've seen a pretty good track record with ofono (+ Ubuntu Touch), Qt (+ Qt Project), and a bunch of other projects.

I also think Jolla do a reasonable (if not great) job at communicating upcoming software progress, considering how frequent releases are: changes are always visible in the repositories, a view into the next update's changes is generally available before it comes (still a relatively new development and not a perfect one), larger technical announcements are sometimes made if there's any hint of problem or interest. And there's changelogs with a fair amount of detail at release time.

But there's also things that I think could be done better.

In particular, I think things like a public platform SDK (similar to what is generally used internally for development at the OS level) could be helpful.

I'd also like to see some work done on making a more cohesive OS development environment (software is available from a spatter of repositories all over the place, often with incredibly blurry lines about what goes where - sometimes to the point of being completely arbitrary) and so on and so forth...

Re: Discussing JollaOy strategy
 

I don't think I know of *any* company that would happily say "sure, here's a prototype of software we might ship in two months. It crashes all the time, don't mind that. I promise the real software doesn't do that."

That's a way to end up going out of business really fast, as well as being really open at the same time. ;)

Why does it matter who this person is? If they're about to write a review, which thanks to the "modern, agile, social tech" internet, can appear all over the world if it goes viral, then they need to go through just the same precautions as anyone else: they must be running stable software, and they must go through the tutorial. I don't see why that's such a major drama for you.

I think if that's your opinion, then instead of trying to make any more points, I'll just say that it's time to say that we'll have to agree to disagree. And I think the fact that you're getting actual replies from past and present employees on this thread should speak volumes about that.

Re: Discussing JollaOy strategy
 

It's called discussion. Sometimes it takes a lot of give and take to get anywhere - and that goes both ways of course, for me to be understood, but also for me to understand others and to learn from them as well.

I think the exchange with Jolla's (?) Philippe was useful and a single or two messages wouldn't have sufficed. Maybe they got something out of it, maybe they didn't. I think I've gained some ideas from this thread, beginning with jalyst's great formulations in his post that made me, a lurker think about this as well (http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...1&postcount=29).

Personally I'm not a big fan of fk_lx's rampage for example, but I'd hardly call participation in a forum thread for a few days excessive either. I think in this thread fk_lx has made some good points too.

Re: Discussing JollaOy strategy
 

Woot is going on here? :D

Get it..!?!

Re: Discussing JollaOy strategy
 

Why is Jolla always compared to the mythical "any company". I thought they were the unlike company.

Anyway, let's not make too much of this. It is just one more of those examples where Jolla ends up looking a little weird and I think they could loosen it up a little.

But this is not a big deal, just a detail that came up. Details speak of culture.

Reach matters, but also hygiene matters. Treating a device loan to a blogger as a rigid press exercise may not be the best PR either. It makes you look stuffy.

Oh, I think Philippe's exchange was quite useful, hopefully for both of us. Maybe he can yell some more inside Jolla and make a change from within to those nontransparent ways of theirs. Believe it or not, I'd actually be happy if that were to happen.

Re: Discussing JollaOy strategy
 

Aside from some surprising moves in not opening up software (and certain questionable email blocking activities), I agree Jolla's FOSS participation is good. Mostly my concerns about their closed nature as communicators is related to Jolla's consumer device business and corporate strategy/culture.

Their software engineers are probably communicating just fine. Except when they are not. ;)

Re: Discussing JollaOy strategy
 

Apparently they do read:

Steskeeps @ Twitter:

https://twitter.com/stskeeps

Not that we get any contribution beyond a fluffy tweet? ;)

I beg to differ (with that quote from this thread), by the way. Transparency and brutal honesty from Marc might have healed many a grievance that silence or vaguessness let grow.

But then, Stskeeps likes to talk about Jesus:

http://www.merproject.org/logs/%23jo...05-28T21:16:37

Re: Discussing JollaOy strategy
 

If my SIM-card slot is not working, I surely know why I'm sending it to be repaired, don't I? :)

Problem is that you define that balance in one way, others define it the other way. End result is that it's impossible to strike a balance that suits everybody. Now the line has been drawn somewhere and it doesn't suit you, even if it's about information which wouldn't help the community in any way (because everything relating to fixing it are out of community's hands, being hardware and not software issue). I simply don't see any sense on concentrating so much effort extracting information that you cannot use in any sensible way. I would understand this criticism if it was about some software bits or architectural things which prevent people of making new apps or getting things to work.

There are always disgruntled people. It's a fact of life, you simply cannot please them all and if you try to do it, you end up pleasing nobody. Can they do better? Probably. However, putting effort on deeply explaining some SIM-card problem just because "it's nice to know" is not about improving things but adding noise.

Re: Discussing JollaOy strategy
 

Oh Jesus!
Now is this true?
Really?

That sounds very strange indeed. That they want to make sure test devices have the latest stable production firmware and not some internal, half-baked one that'll never make it beyond testing. How strange. Sure, who knows what sailors hacked on their own devices? Maybe they even installed Google services that must not be part of any Jolla distribution? But hey, how incredible bureaucratic of Jolla to make sure testers and reviewers get the same experience as paying customers. Hard to believ indeed.

:confused:

Re: Discussing JollaOy strategy
 

OMG! I'm famous! :eek:

Just to set things straight:
When I said Marc wasn't Jesus I didn't mean to express any doubt about His divinity. Don't punish me! :)

I'd prefer those people to work, not to cater to your ego and entertain you as we do.