Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

software optimization requires a great deal of effort. Would you like your video games to stutter and lag because of the lack of optimization? Lazy in the current context means unwilling go go deeper, to spend those extra hours to optimize your work so it looks
good. Its like a pretty painting in a crappy frame. Elop quickly realized that Nokia doesn't have it. The board realized Nokia doesn't have it. Its not in their DNA to make a software that can compete with Android and iPhone. Seven years is a century these days. I am curious to see what pr1.3 brings.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Oh my gosh ...

Sorry couldn't resist, just couldn't.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Lumiaman, why are you spamming this forum, seriously? Do you really think anybody's buying your nonsense, especially that we (Harmattan fans), unlike you, have serious matters to attend to, both here and in real life?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

From a couple of days ago...

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2012/...raded-to-junk/

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

It used to work, yes. That was before Windows 3.1. The only problem was the computer was bigger:)

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

That's pretty accurate IMO. I don't understand the last sentence though, about Nokia will eventually make it with WP. How can they be so sure? What is it Nokia eventually gets, that they haven't during the last 5 years? Apollo, yes, but more is needed.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

That Wired article is off, quite a bit in a few areas. Criticizing Nokia for not going to WP7 sooner in response to the 2007 iPhone release, and I quote:

And they were supposed to jump onto WP7 earlier somehow? Also, the Samsung success is because they were able to change the hardware, differentiate themselves from everybody else due to differently performing (at their initial release) from the screen (AMOLED) to the processor (Exynos).

Nokia has not been able to do that yet. Their internals are dictated by Microsoft. That could be a blessing in disguise right now (wonder if they'd pair an OMAP3 to WP7) but it's a hindrance in setting themselves different. And the external case being different isn't always enough.

Nokia was complacent from 2002 - 2008, imho. Buying Qt was their initial response but that took a long time to bear fruit. Well... Elop killed that momentum with that burning platform memo. Belle, PureView were already in the wings. He should have just said nothing.

All that WP7 has done for Nokia was get sales in North America where they had not had carrier or store presence besides cheap flip phones in ages. They could have stayed with Symbian in all other areas - Asia, Africa and Europe.

That article is... just a bit off. Mention(s) of Maemo were also lacking. Symbian was old hat - I'll never purchase one - true... but Maemo wasn't. They just didn't know how to market that beyond us geeks here at TMO.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

That guy probably doesn't even know that Windows Phone didn't even exist on the market when Elop arrived at Nokia, and if he does know than I don't know how to read that than - they should've embraced Windows Mobile when Apple released the iPhone - in which case Nokia would be gone by now.

That being said, WP SDK was finished on September 16, Elop became a Nokia CEO 5 days later. He couldn't send the `burning platform` memo the first day he arrived, he would be kicked out right away even if the BoD wanted him to gut Nokia. It took some months to prepare the stage and strangle the opposition before his coup de grâce. With hindsight, I am totally convinced that it was his intention to turn Nokia into a MS subsidiary from the day one - no other logical explanation for some of the moves he made, especially the cancellation of S^4, reclamation of the Symbian Foundation (he couldn't pass them to Accenture without first owning them, nor he could completely kill the S^4 plan without it), returning the dubbed 'first MeeGo device' to the drawing board...

Oh, well, since we're talking here about the stock price, and the stock price being one of the best measures of a CEO performance in a publicly owned company - the performance of Elop is downright criminal. It has nothing to do with what system they've chosen to go with, I hypothesized they'd be going the way of the dodo even if they chose Android instead of WP, with the same execution.

Elop was brought in to fix exactly that - execution. And 'fix' it he did - he executed Nokia quite expertly. Bravo, sir!

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Or not... Qualcomm are predicting their processors will be in short supply soon because they can't keep up with demand.

Given the history between the two companies I doubt NOKIA will be a Qualcomm priority either.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Hmm. Not that I'm challenging what you're saying, but source? I wonder if it's just the current set of chipsets or the upcoming dual-core ones that Apollo could use.

History, schmistory. Money is money and Daddy Warbucks (aka Microsoft) is in charge of this deal.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

What? That was Nokias golden years and culminated with the N95, E71, E95. They had it all and pioneered in everything we take for granted today (GPS, maps, good cameras, 3G etc, even AMOLED), then came the iPhone and later Android and Nokia has ever since behaved like a headless duck.

Samsung will be untouchable for a long time to come. They are the most complete consumer electronics company since ever. Phillips, Sony were similar but not at the level of Samsung. Samsung would have passed Nokia anyway, Nokia just made it happen sooner. Samsung lacks software though. Good software comes from China these days, and that is where next gen OS's will come from IMO.

I think people here overestimate the (potential) impact of Maemo. Looking at Maemo from a objective perspective, it headed in the wrong direction from the n900 on. It should have stayed on tablets and Nokia should have developed software and HW in that field. Nothing is wrong with Maemo on a phone per se, it was simply a lost battle from the start for anything but a niche product. On tablets it could have shined and captured a large market share before Apple came. In hindsight that is the only way Maemo could have been something other than dead.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

And that was when their only competition was Motorola. Newer, more swift and mobile competition came along and they had been resting on their laurels, came out with the N97 that wasn't really an impressive jump over the N95... it all worked against them.

2007 was their last golden year. It's been downhill ever since. They reacted slowly, didn't innovate beyond Maemo. Complacent in the market, not viewing or being in the forefront for newer trends. Not reaching out to developers and bringing out stuff like N-Gage, et al... not bringing their A-game to the table either.

That's my opinion. You have yours.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Maybe platform was burning, but all Nokia had to do is pick a water, instead they added more fuel into fire.
They had Maemo/Meego - should've picked Android port QT there and keep developing their own Linux based OS.

Also telling customers Symbian is obsolete was a disaster move - basically means forget about updates, guys. Who would buy it now? Same for N9. I guess half of the people who was interested, changed their mind after that, just like me. So is developers.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Just buy another stock. NOK, will NOK down

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Yes I remember asking many developers(around 15), including one I recall off the top of my head Softpauer, about developing for the N900 back in the day when I had it, and their responses were that they were all waiting to develop for Meego as it had their interests peaked for what it could bring to future devices. I don't honestly know what the appeal was to them, but obviously none of them were going to develop if Nokia openly announces that Meego will be dead. I don't know what affect it would have had if they did, but it is sad to hear that the N9/N950 could have had many more useful apps than it currently does.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

From the nextweb article: "...Yes, Nokia was late to the smartphone party..."

Really? Do you agree with that, qgil?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I don't mean this to sound anti-American but there are a lot of Americans that believe the iPhone was the original smartphone and unfortunately a lot of the American churnalists just regurgitate the same ignorant nonsense.

Like Lumiaman they seem to think a smartphone is defined by the standard of eye-candy and having half a million fart apps in their app store rather than the device's functionality.

I also think if you have an open platform like MeeGo on an unlocked device any talk of an 'ecosystem' is myopic.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

You know, I have read and seen enough by now. There is only one way this can go if MS/Nokia keep going in the direction they apparently/seemingly are going at the moment. Nokia will crumble and disappear, at least the smartphone division, and MS will be cut up in pieces. There are limits to how much MS Office and MS Server will bleed to make this dead horse called WP/Metro/Windows8 live an artificial life fighting a lost battle.

The longer MS keeps on doing this, the more foothold Apple and Google gain also in areas that are considered solid MS ground. But that is not the only danger. Chinese software companies are growing up and expanding at a paste MS cannot keep up with. With performance like this (Maxthon browser) it's only a matter of time before things start changing rapidly and very unexpectedly.

Unless Apollo/Windows8 comes with some heavy rethinking and changes, more in the line of what people actually want, this is the end of MS. Just too bad Nokia got caught up in it, but that's entirely Nokia's fault.

So, Nokia stock is - irrelevant at the moment. They got Mary and her virtual "billion", but what is that worth?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Then you really don't know a lot of Americans that know a damn thing. The way most folks saw it in the US - mind you, I'm in a very tech-oriented sector for the most part - all of us North Americans saw the original iPhone as just a feature phone that played your music, did some web, was at a cheaper price point than most others in regards to having wi-fi.

But smartphone? No. I save that for the Nokia 9000 as being my first introduction to a "smartphone". I think you'd see other North Americans say it was between Blackberry or Windows Mobile based phones, if not Palm to be their first foray into smartphones.

But that's probably because of who/what I work around. It's a lot like you folks here... not exactly the "normal" type of user is around me daily.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

People's perception is really puzzling sometimes. In Europe (generally speaking) the iPhone is the iPhone while Android phones = smartphones. Symbian is actually much unknown. People who have used Symbian phones for years, think they got some sort of Android on their N8. With Belle they are convinced.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Elop fixed Nokia alright. Spay or neuter your CEO today!

If you have to preamble with 'I don't mean to be/sound/etc but...', it usually means you are and intended to be or do exactly what you're trying to say you aren't. If you weren't, you would just plainly state what you're actually trying to say. Please dispense with the apologetic preambles.

As someone that was born and lived in the United States of America, when I picture the first smartphone--I always imagined the Palm OS phones. Basically, a PDA with phone functionality was my first idea of a smartphone. ...Perhaps people here have forgotten all about Palm? I don't know where you're getting your impressions, but you're probably not an American yourself and unfamiliar with living day-to-day in and around Americans, and so unqualified to jump to such conclusions.

Oh right... and I forgot to start with, "I don't mean to be blunt, but..." ;)

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Depends what you define by a smartphone. iPhone strives to do thins to you by guessing and providing you with your needs as best as it can. It works, doesn't freeze, provides seamless integration of many functions and is idiot-proof. IPhone is a smartphone. N9 is for me a dumbphone. N9 call quality is nice and threaded SMS and IM and Skype in one place is unique. But otherwise it fails, so I use N9 as my dumbphone , pretty and nice to hold. iPhone doesn't require tweaks or mods or whatever to work properly. N900 and N9 do. N900 and N9 not very smart.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

My GalaxyTab GT-P1000 is also my most heavily used device. I wanted to buy the Gtab 7.7 but I can't get it here. The GalaxyTab 7 Plus N is not an attractive upgrade.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

It seems that some of you think the smart phone shall make you smarter and help you to do things you can't do otherwise. I say you make the smart phone smart, the phone is not smarter than you. So if you think a phone is a dumb phone. You just might be too dumb for that specific smart phone.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Just saying :D

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

"If you create a system that any idiot can use, then only idiots will find it useful.

Making a process idiot-proof requires that you make it impossible for the users to make a "bad decision". You do this by either removing all decision-making from the process, limiting choices to a set of known-safe alternatives, or by assigning all decisions to someone assumed to not be an idiot. This eliminates creativity and restricts the users' actions. But it is a HumaneInterface."

Then we may assume that the problem exists between the screen and your crown. PEBAYC needs to join the famous PEBKAC in this modern times.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Which robot is smarter: the one that does things without you having to tell him what to do all the time, or the one that needs constant scripts to do what you want it to do?

YOu are smarter than that. N9 and N900 are dumbphones, with a potential, and BIG if potential, to be smart.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

This isn't a good analogy. For instance, all one have to do is reference the Mars Rovers for inspiration of where the ability to tell your machine what it can/should do via scripts can outlast the intended use(s) as opposed to a "tell it all it can do, then once it has to adapt it cannot until it's told to do more" scenario as you had described.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I got this confirmed from Elop today:

WP is burning platform, long live Maemo7 Meltemi.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

What is a smartphone anyway? The only requirement is that it is "smarter" than a dumbphone. Than what is "smarter" and in reference to what? and what is a dumbphone?

This is an hopeless discussion. A once read that a requirement of a smartphone is that it should be independent of a PC. By that standard my first phone ever was smart, because it couldn't even connect to a PC.

The N900 is hardly a phone at all, but "smarter" than anyone. The first iPhone was also hardly a phone, yet it was "dumber" than most dumbphones.

Let's talk stock!

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I was under the impression that a smartphone is just a phone device that can also load up apps (as opposed to "feature-phones", which can only run the features they have baked into them... And dumb-phones which are strictly voice with possibly some data like WAP/HTML browsing, email, etc.). That's just what I think without looking it up, mind you.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

OHHHHH...Wrong!

But still the best explanation so far :)


From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia so it the one true answer! ;)

"A smartphone is a mobile phone built on a mobile computing platform, with more advanced computing ability and connectivity than a feature phone.[1][2][3] The first smartphones were devices that mainly combined the functions of a personal digital assistant (PDA) and a mobile phone or camera phone. Today's models also serve to combine the functions of portable media players, low-end compact digital cameras, pocket video cameras, and GPS navigation units. Modern smartphones typically also include high-resolution touchscreens, web browsers that can access and properly display standard web pages rather than just mobile-optimized sites, and high-speed data access via Wi-Fi and mobile broadband.

The most common mobile operating systems (OS) used by modern smartphones include Apple's iOS, Google's Android, Microsoft's Windows Phone, Nokia's Symbian, RIM's BlackBerry OS, and embedded Linux distributions such as Maemo and MeeGo. Such operating systems can be installed on many different phone models, and typically each device can receive multiple OS software updates over its lifetime.

The distinction between smartphones and feature phones can be vague and there is no official definition for what constitutes the difference between them. One of the most significant differences is that the advanced application programming interfaces (APIs) on smartphones for running third-party applications[4] can allow those applications to have better integration with the phone's OS and hardware than is typical with feature phones. In comparison, feature phones more commonly run on proprietary firmware, with third-party software support through platforms such as Java ME or BREW.[1] An additional complication in distinguishing between smartphones and feature phones is that over time the capabilities of new models of feature phones can increase to exceed those of phones that had been promoted as smartphones in the past."

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

looks like LG is also quiting Windows Phone. They know that WP means losing money + market share. The only Idiot is Nokia which believe that WP will give them the crown back. Poor Nokia.

And for LG news check gsmarena. Cant post link as im using Opera Mini on my N900.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Theyr wipeing WP cause theyr are followers. I am sure they will some other OS when Android is doomed. So facts is this has NOTHING to do with Nokias shitty decisions.

LG is very small player. I am sure they will be killed before Nokia even if WP fails.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Hmm... LG quit MeeGo before they released anything. The committed to WP7 and are now quitting that. They're part of the partners behind Tizen, could this mean a pending announcement?

Or is LG still confused about what they will do for a mobile OS next?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I nearly apologised again (very English) but you'd probably lecture me for that too.


I live near Mildenhall and Lakenheath so I encounter Americans more often than you appreciate, a fair few have children at the local school with my own. My sister-in-law married a US serviceman and I'd say my nephews are very much American.

That said my view on the US perspective of smartphones is really based on the output of US tech sites, blogs and the comments sections they contain. It's obvious many have absolutely no idea of NOKIA / Symbian's heritage and the roll they've played in making smartphones what they are today.

Due to spats with carriers NOKIA didn't conquer North America in the same way it did the rest of the globe so I understand the general population not knowing but I think anyone who's going to masquerade as a tech journalist rather than just a punter with an opinion owes it to their readers to do a bit of research.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

http://www.readwriteweb.com/mobile/2...the-iphone.php

Today, several news sites have a story saying that carriers are unhappy with the large piece of the profit pie Apple is taking. They say they want Windows to be more competitive so that they can put some pressure on Apple. So, according to all these stories, they are prepared to do their part to help promote Windows Phone.

I guess the desperate midnight calls from Elop have finally moved Ballmer to let go of some marketing cash. Are they trying to paint a more hopeful outcome to try and gain a bit more time for Elop?

My friends are evenly split between iPhone users and Android ones. They all seem to be enjoying their devices and all of them are probably tied up to a two year contract. That means none of them are likely to buy a Windows phone in a while. My friends who do not yet have a smart phone are very unlikely to buy a Windows phone. I think the iPhone is priced quite competitively right now and there is this perception that when you buy an iPhone you are buying the top of the line. The perception of Windows phone is that you are getting a cheaper, but less polished, less functional, problematic, dud. In the mind of consumers, a Windows powered device is associated with Ctrl Alt Delete, and viruses. An iPhone is associated with coolness, sleekness, simplicity, functionality. How long will it take for Microsoft to change that, let alone Nokia?

Could Nokia have done better with Meego? I think so. Meego devices would have had several technical advantages over Windows phones, but most importantly Nokia could have market them simply as *Nokia* devices. With Meego devices people wouldn't have the negative connotations associated with Windows.

I saw this advertisement on TV yesterday:

http://video.nytimes.com/video/2012/...ommercial.html

Interestingly it completely avoids mentioning Windows. It is so funny how the guy avoids answering the question "what kind of phone is that?" He knows that the moment he says the word "Windows", her perception of him will drop a few notches. The same is true of the consumers watching that commercial.

How much better if he could have said, "it is a Nokia phone using a new open source operating system based on Linux. It is like the iPhone, but more powerful and less restricted". She would have then wanted to get her hands on it to have a look. And she would have been floored by the multitasking and sleekness. She would have been saying to herself, "this guy is intriguing. I hope he asks me out."

:)

And the Nokia stock price would reflect that.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Problem is, you need the robot to do the *correct* things, but except for trivial things, only you can know what they are.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

You know your platform is a big fail when carriers might support it so they can put pressure on someone else to share the profit and if they do then the carriers will probably send win phails down the toilet along with Nokia and probably Ballmer.

I don't think Elop is allowed to call Ballmer during none business hours he probably has to call some other dude at MS which will then decide if ballmer should wake up at talk to his biaatch at Nokia