Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

$ sdptool browse local
Browsing FF:FF:FF:00:00:00 ...
Service Name: Nokia OBEX PC Suite Services
Service RecHandle: 0x10000
Service Class ID List:
UUID 128: 00005005-0000-1000-8000-0002ee000001
Protocol Descriptor List:
"L2CAP" (0x0100)
"RFCOMM" (0x0003)
Channel: 24
"OBEX" (0x0008)
Profile Descriptor List:
"" (0x00005005-0000-1000-8000-0002ee000001)
Version: 0x0100

Service Name: Object Push server
Service RecHandle: 0x10001
Service Class ID List:
"OBEX Object Push" (0x1105)
Protocol Descriptor List:
"L2CAP" (0x0100)
"RFCOMM" (0x0003)
Channel: 9
"OBEX" (0x0008)
Profile Descriptor List:
"OBEX Object Push" (0x1105)
Version: 0x0100

Service Name: Headset Audio Gateway
Service RecHandle: 0x10002
Service Class ID List:
"Headset Audio Gateway" (0x1112)
"Generic Audio" (0x1203)
Protocol Descriptor List:
"L2CAP" (0x0100)
"RFCOMM" (0x0003)
Channel: 12
Profile Descriptor List:
"Headset" (0x1108)
Version: 0x0102

Service Name: Hands-Free Audio Gateway
Service RecHandle: 0x10003
Service Class ID List:
"Handsfree Audio Gateway" (0x111f)
"Generic Audio" (0x1203)
Protocol Descriptor List:
"L2CAP" (0x0100)
"RFCOMM" (0x0003)
Channel: 13
Profile Descriptor List:
"Handsfree" (0x111e)
Version: 0x0105

Service Name: AVRCP TG
Service RecHandle: 0x10004
Service Class ID List:
"AV Remote Target" (0x110c)
Protocol Descriptor List:
"L2CAP" (0x0100)
PSM: 23
"AVCTP" (0x0017)
uint16: 0x103
Profile Descriptor List:
"AV Remote" (0x110e)
Version: 0x0100

Service Name: Audio Source
Service RecHandle: 0x10005
Service Class ID List:
"Audio Source" (0x110a)
Protocol Descriptor List:
"L2CAP" (0x0100)
PSM: 25
"AVDTP" (0x0019)
uint16: 0x102
Profile Descriptor List:
"Advanced Audio" (0x110d)
Version: 0x0102

Service Name: SyncML Client
Service RecHandle: 0x10006
Service Class ID List:
UUID 128: 00000002-0000-1000-8000-0002ee000002
Protocol Descriptor List:
"L2CAP" (0x0100)
"RFCOMM" (0x0003)
Channel: 25
"OBEX" (0x0008)
Profile Descriptor List:
"" (0x00000002-0000-1000-8000-0002ee000002)
Version: 0x0100

Service Name: SyncML Server
Service RecHandle: 0x10007
Service Class ID List:
UUID 128: 00000001-0000-1000-8000-0002ee000001
Protocol Descriptor List:
"L2CAP" (0x0100)
"RFCOMM" (0x0003)
Channel: 26
"OBEX" (0x0008)
Profile Descriptor List:
"" (0x00000001-0000-1000-8000-0002ee000001)
Version: 0x0100

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

Just to inform anyone that uses outlook.com

Jolla has fixed the bug which didn't let you sync anything from outlook.com with Exchange.

The update will be released soon.

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

Question about battery life:
I found I could boost my N9's battery life by installing profilematic and setting a rule that forces 2G instead of 3G when I'm on wifi.

So my questions to Jolla users are:
Is there a setting like this in SailfishOS?
Is profilematic already in the Jolla store?
Plus, bonus question: Does anyone know if profilematic is being ported at all?

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

1. Nope, there is just very basic Wifi ON/OFF, mobile data ON/OFF. But you can choose "Prefer 2G" for mobile data.
2. Not at the moment
3. Hopefully :)

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

You use outlook.com? Calendar works? This will decide if I'm jumping from gmail to outlook.com for a while.

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

The complaints over Android support are here... why? It's a gateway into non-fan territory that currently have Android apps that are there and not yet native/ported over to Sailfish and don't want some knockoff variant of Instagram that'll be locked out before the next update.

You don't want it, don't install it. It's that simple. But for them not to have it, that would have been a crucial mistake. Don't have Netflix? Sideload it. Don't have Autodesk Sketchbook Pro? Sideload it. Don't have Firefox? Sideload it.

Don't want to sideload anything? Don't use it.

The reviews... so far shows me how much the reviewers are so used to Android and iOS and aren't willing to think in other terms. If the N9 was more widespread distributed and/or BB10 was actually popular, a lot of the UI/UX complaints would have probably become constructive criticisms.

But the N9 didn't get worldwide distribution, the reviewers are reluctant to switch from their "preciousssssss" and we're having to figure out a way to educate folks that don't want to learn/listen/think independently.

Uphill battle? Yep. Being angry about it? Useless. Correcting where it needs to be corrected? I'm down for that.

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

I'm also a bit afraid of the whole Android thing. It's great that it's compatible, but I suppose official apps like Facebook and Twitter will never get a proper Sailfish version since they are already available for Jolla as Android apps... And they will probably never run comparable to a real Android device.

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

Did someone disassemled the jolla?

Would like to see HW pictures :D

regards

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

And more importantly:

WILL IT BLEND?!

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

Avatar in contact feild
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16...ps820cf690.png

Avatar full screen in call
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16...psada39f67.png

you are jumping out of the frying pan into the fire...

I don't think, the android support is that bad for Jolla.
See that from the other side: Jolla needs customers. Without at least standard apps like WhatsApp, Twitter, Facebook and so on, nobody will buy a Jolla. I think that was a big point on the N9, too.

With a growing user base, the need for good apps will grow also. But only native sailfish apps can be qualitatively good on Jolla and the developers will probably start to port their apps to sailfish os, if there are enough users.

So, at first Jolla needs many apps to have a chance to get many customers and then the market will regulate itself.
That is how I see this and I think this is the right decision of Jolla.


I hope it is clear what i meant, sorry for my bad English :-)

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

What choice do I have for a service that syncs mail, contacts and calendar? And works on Jolla?

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

Reviewers won't switch from their preciousssss, and, because smalltime/cowboy/hobbist developers (which are the ones that supported Maemo and Harmattan) will have less itches to scratch*, there will be fewer native programs for the device.

In fact, all platform development will come from those of us who will reject to install the Android runtime no matter what, and thus will be in severe need of native applications. Unless a friggin miracle -- that did never happen in the many years a big name such as Nokia was behind this -- occurs and commercial developers start targeting the device.

* If you don't think that is the case, ask yourself: Would the Whatsapp protocol have been RE'd if it the official application could have been run in N9 since day 1?

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

Any IMAP service. Any SyncML service. And hopefully soon: any CalDAV/CardDAV service. You can host it yourself, if you want.

I'd rather go without calendar/contacts syncing than using advertising companies like google, microsoft. And while you can get paid accounts, without the ads (and hopefully without the invasive tracking, but somehow I doubt that...) but they use non-standard protocols which they tend to change at their whims as well.

Use open protocols and trustworthy services. They are out there, really.

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

They switched to iOS and Android from what existed prior - mostly Symbian, BlackBerry and Windows Mobile. This new cycle that the majority is in currently is bound to wind down too. Then what?

The part about less itches to scratch... man, tell me about it. I think it's an isolation tactic that's counterproductive in terms of having native apps or rarely seen/used apps because it's not popular here but overlooking the popularity elsewhere.

And by "friggin' miracle", you mean money, right? Money (and marketshare) will deliver a native app. Folks not using Android could be a blessing - they'll end up writing native apps that take advantage of the UI only if they think it'll be well-received, well-used and they can make money and/or grab marketshare they've been shut out of before.

Sadly, the way that anything popular is shunned here, say goodbye to native Instagram, Skype, Vine and a few others because well... nobody here would use it, the market that owns a Jolla phone also would rather use Diaspora, Tox.im, and something else (lord I forgot the name of that pic sharing web app, M-something).

If Whatsapp was there on day one, we'd complain about it then too. It's closed source, it's not secure, it's not interfaced by terminal... I can continue.

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

Can you give me even one example? What are you using (for calendar/contacts/email, not just email)? I really want to know. And as you know CalDAV is not supported on Jolla for the time being. Who knows how long it will take? I need calendar syncing, and I don't have access to an Exchange account because I don't work in such a company where I could obtain one.

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

Maybe Owncloud ?

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

Molome?

Valid point (I agree with both you and javispedro just to be clear).

My 2 cents: If WhatsApp was available on day one, the people who complained about insecurity would be the ones who most likely have the ability to develop their own "secure" alternative... if they wanted to. That said, those people who wanted a secure alternative would probably be allergic to WhatsApp and insist on using something like SilentCircle or whatnot.

The majority of people who picked up the N9 and just wanted to use WhatsApp would probably never have even signed up on TMO in the first place if that had happened :D

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

Yes. I was expecting to use this example history of recent migrations as an example of the reason on why you don't need a large `application baggage' to be a successful platform. In my opinion, thus, having Android applications does not imply or is even a necessary condition for reviewers ditching their `preciouss'.

Obviously, because you are cutting off the emulation, the net result of the isolationist tactic is that you have less access to popular and not-that-popular programs. I fully acknowledge there is a tradeoff here. The benefit is that, because such lack of access to popular programs implies more demand for native programs, there are more native programs.

I am realistic: if you're interested in having access to as many programs as possible, then I'm certain the emulator strategy will work much better for you. But precisely because you will be content, you will not call as much for native applications (e.g. to developers on this forum) and the net result is less native applications. Therefore, (a) `isolationists' lose (b) Jolla loses.

Yes, money and marketshare deliver native applications. There are two plausible scenarios:
a) Jolla device ends up getting money and marketshare
b) Jolla device never gets money and marketshare

By my first point on this post, I'm going to assume that shipping an emulation layer does not have an impact on whether a or b is most probable (debatable). If (a) happens, then it does not matter whether you destroyed demand for native applications by shipping an emulator -- you will have native applications either way. So win win situation.
If (b) happens, which is, IMHO, the most probable, then only hobbists will be the ones actually developing for the platform. In this case, and by arguments in my previous post, you've basically killed your platform by shipping an emulator. Or at a minimum, you've made it way less enticing for hobbists to develop native applications for the platform.

While I would personally shun Instagram, Skype, Vine and the like, you cannot argue that there is development and demand for these applications in this very forum. A good example of that is.... (see below)

And despite my complains it happened, and there was demand for it.

And thus I lost a bit more faith in humanity, but that's another story.

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

So basically for something such as WhatsApp to be RE'd you need a large enough set of people with the same itch so that there is at least one of them with enough knowledge to RE it but without enough fanatism/Stallmanism :D

I suspect such a large set of people is only possible when basically a big % of N9 owners demand it i.e. when they cannot run the official client via emulation -- but maybe we should ask the actual N9 Whatsapp client devs :)

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

THANK YOU! I've been trying to remember this one all day it seems.

All jesting aside, I have to say that javispedro is more correct than I am but in this case, we're coming from different angles. I can actually see his point though.

100% agree.

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

I think we're discussing two different things. Applications is thinly veiled talk for features. Any platform that I choose will invariably have the features I want. Connectivity to web, web services, instant messaging with picture sharing, social media, online storage, note taking, sketching and do so in an efficient manner. I'm ecosystem agnostic, but features I do require. Or I'll get it from another precious shiny, shiny.

I agree 100% with everything stated here. In fact, thank you for saying it better than I ever could have.

Can I be honest here and say that I see it as a compromise or way to add time to your product viability? If not today (native), then emulate until a native version arrives. It's a compromise that I only welcome because it shuts up the naysayers on the spot. But it assumes I have the patience to wait for the native apps to come.

To not be the content, you have to control the flow. That means something seriously needs to change. The isolationists might be onto something; however it needs momentum. And the need for native applications that bring features to the forefront instead of apps that collect data and sell it.

I'm game for stuff like Tox.im to replace Skype. But for that to happen, Jolla needs to be as disruptive as Hades and folks that have been isolated need to discuss openly and clearly why better options exist. And folks will have to be willing to jump ship and learn new things...

Oh hell. We're doomed.

It's not so black/white to me. I think something new will happen since we're now a gadget based world full of features, frameworks, sharing information and very short attention spans. Disruption now would be quite easy once you establish new parameters.

The scenarios you've listed out have led me to your aforesaid sentiment all too often. I'm folding back into hope. Emulation is a gateway drug for some. For me, it'll mean that the initial step(s) might gain momentum easily. Let's hope that's the case.

Great points all around from you. Thanks for sharing them.

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

All great points guys and very interesting, but please MODS move those Android-compatibility-a-plus-or-a-curse posts to a separate thread, how is this user experience on Jolla?

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

Well, we developers are users too and with a device like the Jolla, where you can actually develop on the device, "user experience" takes on a larger meaning.

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

Please share your developer experience with Jolla, not just Jolla anticipation and worries about ecosystem and if android is gonna help or not, that is hardly an experience yet, just speculation, not for experience thread

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

Dude, we're almost a 1000 posts in, lighten up.

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

That's just the first week ^^ (check the dates lol)

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

Time to start PR1.1 thread.

Kidding aside, can anyone tell me whether searching in Mail app works well? Also, can I edit quotes when replying? How about copying texts in a mail?

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

Does anyone know how Viber and Skype work on Jolla?

I also wonder how Facebook and GTalk messaging works. I am currently using Windows Phone and Facebook messaging is horrible (notifications are very problematic) and GTalk is not integrated. I miss N9's messaging capabilities. Is there instant notifications when a Facebook or GTalk message is sent to me?

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

Couldn't find search feature.

Editing quotes when replying works: tap where you want to edit and start writting or deleting text.

I could copy mail text from reply mode but I couldn't figure out how to do it in the mail view mode.

i could not test it myself, but since FB and GTalk are both using Jabber / XMPP, they should work with telepathy, just like on the N9.

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

User experience seems to be connected if you are a jolla fan or not. Drop a jolla phone in a real usability test and I fear that usability result will be very bad. Might be wrong but that is what I read from this thread.

well, i'm pretty sure, you can say the same about Android, iOS and WP...

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

No search! :eek:

At least the rest are better than N9...

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

Yes, in their early stages.bu peobobly not now. What i mean real tests.not on fans.

So far only supporters bought it for what ever reason. I hope that next device can be a bit more for end users.

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

I am an end user and when I get the Jolla I am going to write my usability impressions down like I have done with the N9.

The N9 (only and final consumer HW to run Harmattan) had an uncorrectable hardware design error though: the Pentile display that proved to be incompatible with my eyes and usage pattern. Hardly usable for reading small text.

As far as I can tell at present now there will be no such thing with the Jolla,
For certain I will discover the Jolla to have untolerable and incomprehensible shortcomings, but all fixable in software.

So let's lighten up and follow the real story: how Sailfish matures through updates during first half of 2014?

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

Now slow down and think. What do all those OSes have in common? They all come from Big Companies™. RIM can be considered the odd one out and it is - it has always been a niche OS.

You can expect reviewers to switch to a brand new OS, as long as it comes from some big company they know. You can't expect the reviewers to help Jolla to make it. Jolla has to make it on its own and become big. Then and only then will the press start paying attention.

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

There is no such thing as an objective usability test. Howgh!

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

Not following your logic here. Apple and Google both didn't have a mobile OS before 2006. Google bought theirs, Apple made theirs. And they both started from "ground zero" in terms of acceptance. There were no guarantees.

In fact, the two players that had long-term OS's - Windows and Palm were both outclassed by the upstarts. Both had some serious usability issues that were later overcome via the simplification of iOS and Android. Windows survived (much to my dismay) and Palm morphed into WebOS which was doomed due to Leo Apotheker's bad decisions.

People switched because the older way phones were done - notice I'm ignoring Nokia - it wasn't how folks wanted them. 7 years into this cycle of iOS/Android, it's time for something new. For something new from the next soon-to-be-big company. Let it be Jolla.

RIM had a bigger share than you give them credit.

Actually, I can expect reviewers and folks to switch. Face it, we're here huddled around all things Maemo and MeeGo for rather same reasons - the status quo plain sucks. The in-fighting and bickering that folks tend to do once there's an ounce of Linux involved is just a rather crappy inherited part of that. I hate hearing folks argue over which shell/editor/kernel/license/neckbeard quote of the month is about in all things Linux. It's offensive to the general population because they're clueless in those areas.

People switch all the time. Otherwise, we'd all be using Windows Mobile still (which also commanded a major percentage of prior generation smartphones).