Re: Where is Nokia - no announcement no product - still in hibernation
 

Yes, of course it has. We in Maemo Software do do usability testing, outside the company and with target users. We have a great team in place for it. I've personally been observing tests and reading test results for five years now, so I do feel that I have some factual basis also in my opinions. After all, I try to form my opinions based on what I see real, average users do, say and behave.

And now it's been several years with a D-pad device (770 and N800) and also several years with the N810 device without a D-pad, so I do dare to say that a) most users didn't really use the D-pad when they had one with the 770 and the N800 and b) more importantly, most users do not miss it when it is gone from the front cover with the N810. "Most users" of course means that not everybody acts the same, but "most" is a better target than "some" :)

Re: Where is Nokia - no announcement no product - still in hibernation
 

No, I've not been saying that. I've tried to say for several times, so I'll say it again :), that the approach should be "support, but do not require".

If you imagine building a platform with a whole bunch of devices - perhaps one day - a key way to differentiate devices is through their hardware characteristics, keys being one important part of it. So if you want to do a gaming device, you put gaming keys; a music device, put music keys; for device with a camera, a camera shutter key etc. Provided hard keys make the device different and unique, and also offer some benefit. But then again, the software should also work (practically) without any HW keys.

A camera key is an easy key to add, since it's easy to specify the functionality and the functionality makes sense in all cases.

Re: Where is Nokia - no announcement no product - still in hibernation
 

Ok, so the usability testing has showed no D-PAD, how about keyboard? :)

"So if you want to do a gaming device, you put gaming keys; a music device, put music keys; for device with a camera, a camera shutter key etc."
Since we know that the new device won't be an "Internet tablet", what will it be then and what keys will there be? :)

Re: Where is Nokia - no announcement no product - still in hibernation
 

I could tell you about the new device, but then I'd have to kill the internet.

Anyway, hardware keyboards are good for text input, I guess we all know this already. Keyboards a) give haptics both before pressing keys (feeling where you are) and after pressing keys (the latter can be emulated, but the former is much harder), b) using a HW keyboard doesn't block half or the whole of the screen like an on-screen keyboard does, preservering the context better and simplifying the UI, c) error rates are usually smaller.

Then again, just like with other hardware keys, it's a question of positioning a device, as for something where people type a lot or then type a little. A keyboard adds cost, mechanical complexity, size and weight to a device. The UI should also work in a device without a hardware keyboard.

Re: Where is Nokia - no announcement no product - still in hibernation
 

I can claim the same and, looking around at the other people around me in real-life usability, they DO often use the DPAD because they just naturally prefer it sometimes. I must, then, claim that MY observations are in complete disagreement with your claimed observations and since I actually SEE these people using their N800's (techies and VERY non-techies alike), I believe my observations to be more valid that yours. So there. :)

Actually, on a more serious note, though... at least two of the people I know who ended up buying N800's COULD have bought N810's but actually DID point out that they chose the N800 over the N810 because of the lack of the d-pad on the face and the lack of TWO SD slots (really, who wants microSD? And only one?). Most of my other coworkers and friends who have one decided that they were glad they already had an N800 and had no plans to upgrade to an N810 despite the built-in GPS and keyboard. So far, I've not run into anyone (offline, in the real world) with an N810.

Re: Where is Nokia - no announcement no product - still in hibernation
 

No problem. As we all know, you can delete the "Internet" by dragging the blue "e"-symbol into the trashcan. :)

This sounds like it won't have a hw keyboard.

Re: Where is Nokia - no announcement no product - still in hibernation
 

:D
I think there'll be at least one device with a keyboard, but i'm not sure if there'd be a device without. The new device will be all about content creation + always-on internet. That means, constant photo making, blogging, tweeting and so on. So there'd be a lot of typing. Maybe there'd be a more media oriented device where there'd be no keyboard.

I guess it'd look like the device shown on the summit in the slideshow.

What big events like CES are there this year where Nokia might announce the new device?

Re: Where is Nokia - no announcement no product - still in hibernation
 

I simply can't follow you any more.
a) I never talked about optimizing for fingers. On the contrary, I said a finger UI usually fails and therefore shouldn't be considered much.
b) I also don't say that different parts of the UI should be optimized for different input methods. Why make everything so complicated? Most graphical GUIs I know can be used with hardware keys (you can use Windows/Gnome/... more efficiently with the keyboard than with the mouse). This includes all versions of maemo so far: There's nothing "optimized for stylus" or "optimized for D-Pad", still you can use both to cotrol the device. (And you can also control the whole UI with a bluetooth keyboard without even touching it... I wonder how this would work if the UI wasn't made to accept hardware keys.)

The hype will vanish, I'm sure.
Also, people do get irritated by their jPhones etc. the longer they use them. There are other mechanisms that keep them loyal customers. (One thing that's great about Apple, for example, is the complete "all in one" experience you get with the ecosystem around iTunes, the Pods, the phone and a OSX computer. If you want this experience, you have to cope with the shortcomings of the UI.) - Also, people tend to stand up for their own decisions even though they prove wrong afterwards. And finally: Yes, we do see touch devices returned in large numbers when factors like these don't play a role. Like when employees were given touch screen devices (HTC) as company phones and returned them in favor of the alternative, a plain SonyEricsson K550i.




... all valid points for not having a touch only UI but having a choice. People are different. Let's not force them all into the same way of using the UI.


I'm 41 years old and had a lot of UIs... from my Atari 400, MS-DOS, Windows (1.0, 3.11, 95, 98/Me, NT, 2000, XP, Vista), KDE, Gnome, Fluxbox, OS2005-2008, a number of phones by different manufacturers, VCRs and DVD players,...
Yes, it may take a few hours or so to feel comfortable and at home, but if a UI requires people to adjust their muscles and do some training as for painting... and then, some will still never learn it, while other happen to "have a gift"... then there's something seriously wrong with it. Any UI has to adapt to the people who use it, not the other way round.

The iPod Touch I had for about a week; MO-FR, IIRC. - The jPhone I returned on the 2nd day, but play with it every now and then as a friend of mine desperately tries to convince me that using it will save the whales and free Tibet.


... again, I'm completely lost here. I don't understand what you're talking about. Why should a scollbar "know"? It didn't in OS2005 and it was fine the way it was.
Anyway, we're so far off topic here, it doesn't matter anymore.


.... click on an image to save it or copy its location. View HTML source (of page or frame or selection). Open frame in new window. Open link in new window/tab. Perform some action to trigger what's "mouseover" on a desktop. Zoom in/out. View image properies. View link properties. .... Quite few things to accomplish when all you have for input is the press of a finger.

Re: Where is Nokia - no announcement no product - still in hibernation
 

one SPECIFIC use for a d-pad that I use all the time which I can't see a non-hardware key replacement for - smoothly scrolling 'down the page' for pdfs, webpages, long emails etc.

This is actually one of the MAIN uses I have for my device (apart from playing 'blocks') that I can't see a touch ui resolution for.

can anyone tell me how it would work, or does on an iphone etc?

Re: Where is Nokia - no announcement no product - still in hibernation
 

Are these real usability tests or do you just take people from the street and ask them to perform certain tasks on a certain UI (or variants of a UI)? This "people from the street"-approach is the one I know and it doesn't give you any usable input except when designing websites that are expected to be used only once in a while.

A real usability test would maybe take into account some first time users, but focus on experienced long-time users.
The problem with what companies define as "usability" these days is they tend to focus on the short-time experience. That's logical from a commercial point of view (you have to attract those who use the device only for a short time, like journalists, or only try it once in the shop), but it makes applications inefficient for every day use. IMHO, efficiency in every day use is much more important than intuitive and easy first-time use.


??? the N810 does have a D-pad. Doesn't yours?