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maemo.org - Talk (https://talk.maemo.org/index.php)

- Maemo 5 / Fremantle (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=40)

- - The in-development Maemo 5 Community SSU (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=67905)

imacmillan

2011-02-23 10:56

Re: The in-development Maemo 5 Community SSU

think theres a way of stopping the forced rotation on certain apps? like a whitelist to ignore sorta thing? for example stopping the camera app getting forced rotated?

pelago

2011-02-23 11:00

Re: The in-development Maemo 5 Community SSU

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivgalvez (Post 953434)

I can't even find if the Image Viewer application is closed source or not.

Stskeeps made http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/maemo...penness/pr1.1/ which might help. http://mer-project.blogspot.com/2010...-pr11-and.html explains the table a bit.

Jaffa

2011-02-23 11:04

Re: The in-development Maemo 5 Community SSU

Quote:

Originally Posted by imacmillan (Post 953503)

think theres a way of stopping the forced rotation on certain apps? like a whitelist to ignore sorta thing? for example stopping the camera app getting forced rotated?

No. See here for the rationale.

Short version: this isn't "system-wide portrait". This is a tool to help identify applications which can be "tweaked" to support portrait mode rather than pressing Ctrl-Shift-R all the time.

imacmillan

2011-02-23 11:07

Re: The in-development Maemo 5 Community SSU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaffa (Post 953509)

Thanks for the info, that makes sense :)

ejasmudar

2011-02-23 11:07

Re: The in-development Maemo 5 Community SSU

So, what can be done for the camera app? It is a very important app and even alternatives like BlessN900 is buggy in portrait mode.

normaltusker

2011-02-23 11:08

Re: The in-development Maemo 5 Community SSU

Quote:

Originally Posted by ejasmudar (Post 953484)

ok the wiki has been updated to have seperate sections for system apps and 3rd party apps.

Just added a few Apps's status to the system applications. Will add more once I have some more time on hand! Wasn't logged in so my changes appear under an IP! :)

Jaffa

2011-02-23 11:17

Re: The in-development Maemo 5 Community SSU

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivgalvez (Post 953481)

Working on it... :)

Excellent, thanks. I've moved it down under Development. Hope you don't mind: it's of most benefit to CSSU developers rather than users, and I think the CSSU homepage should stay as clean as possible:

http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU/...t_Applications

Jaffa

2011-02-23 11:18

Re: The in-development Maemo 5 Community SSU

Quote:

Originally Posted by ejasmudar (Post 953516)

So, what can be done for the camera app? It is a very important app and even alternatives like BlessN900 is buggy in portrait mode.

Edit transitions.ini to turn off forced rotation, and then believe those of us who've said for years that system-level portrait mode isn't easy?

ivgalvez

2011-02-23 11:21

Re: The in-development Maemo 5 Community SSU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaffa (Post 953523)

I have only included user applications. I think it would be useful first to have replacements for them and then try to replace as much closed bits as possible.

ejasmudar

2011-02-23 11:22

Re: The in-development Maemo 5 Community SSU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaffa (Post 953525)

Edit transitions.ini to turn off forced rotation, and then believe those of us who've said for years that system-level portrait mode isn't easy?

It may not be easy, but it ain't impossible, is it? I have full faith in the CSSU team and in this community.
Impossible is nothing,

poleepkwa

2011-02-23 11:23

Re: The in-development Maemo 5 Community SSU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaffa (Post 953525)

Edit transitions.ini to turn off forced rotation, and then believe those of us who've said for years that system-level portrait mode isn't easy?

This is probably why Nokia never planned to implement it.

Jaffa

2011-02-23 11:28

Re: The in-development Maemo 5 Community SSU

Quote:

Originally Posted by ejasmudar (Post 953528)

It may not be easy, but it ain't impossible, is it? I have full faith in the CSSU team and in this community.
Impossible is nothing,

What's not impossible is the stuff I outlined above:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaffa (Post 953421)

This is not proper "portrait for N900" and many apps will have problems (including built-in ones and those designed for the system to respect the "this program supports portrait" flags).

The point of forcerotation is to make it easier to identify the apps which are:

Closed source but work well. A "white-list" will be developed and included in a future CSSU so that these rotate out-of-the-box.
Open source but work well. These will have the appropriate flags added to their source in the git repos.
Open source but nearly work. These will have the appropriate flags and changes added to their source in the git repos.

imacmillan

2011-02-23 11:34

Re: The in-development Maemo 5 Community SSU

Quote:

Originally Posted by poleepkwa (Post 953530)

This is probably why Nokia never planned to implement it.

if apple can do it, so can we. well not me personally because im useless but the brilliant developers we have as part of the community.

edit: jaffas idea i mean

tomchiverton

2011-02-23 11:34

Re: The in-development Maemo 5 Community SSU

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivgalvez (Post 953501)

Please link the page from the Features section of the CSSU Wiki.

Done it .

Mentalist Traceur

2011-02-23 11:36

Re: The in-development Maemo 5 Community SSU

Added detail in the comments of X-Term and Web in the 1st party applications for the portrait compatibility wiki.

Anyway, back to this: if forcedrotation is only meant to be a tool, you'll still leave it in as a usable option, right? Or will it eventually be pulled out? Personally, I think the eventual end result on the N900 will end up being, for a lot of users, that we have system-wide portrait support anyway - and this, while it might be intended as a tool, basically does most of the task already - actually, I really feel that at this point, creating a user tweakable blacklist of "don't rotate" apps would be far better, in my opinion. But I suppose that's not really CSSU business as of yet.

*Shrug*

My opinion is though, your last two CSSU updates both made portrait functionality, whether that was the intent, and have presented a rather good view of how Hildon would feel if this Ctrl-Shift-R mess was deprecated and autorotation became the norm. It should be possible for apps to still have user configurable options to lock them to either portrait or landscape, but I don't see why the above can't be the 'norm'. Just make it still possible for the Ctrl+Shift+R combo to have a toggle effect, but beyond that, I don't see why it can't be made the norm.

The fact that apps that were built before portrait auto-rotation was common and thus don't support it, in my mind, isn't a good reason to throw out the newer and better model, or to hold back portrait support when at the end of the day, there's no reason most of those apps didn't have portrait support to begin with other than the fact that portrait mode wasn't an option at first.

I guess the point of this sleep deprived rant is that it sounds like the future plan is something of a reversion to a default-rotation-off-unless-pre-programmed-that-way-with-an-auto-rotate-on-flag-in-the-code approach. And I just don't see a good reason for that. It is far more effective, I think, to make non-auto-rotation a conscious choice for developers if they wish to hard-code non-auto-rotation into the program, and barring that, let things auto rotate, and give users some built-in 'lock' system built in to Hildon Desktop itself to force specific apps into one orientation or the other only if they so chose.

A, it puts the control back into the user, and B, it's more future proof. As I said, you're making strides in making Hildon functionally portrait capable, and just because some of the older apps still suck at portrait, doesn't mean the norm should be not-auto-rotate.

- Edit -

Seems that my changes were in the wiki page originally made, not the one Jaffa placed under development. Personally, I think it should've been outside there, but linked to from CSSU development, actually, because whether or not an app works well in portrait seems to me to be a more general thing, than just the CSSU specifically. (Though they obviously are significantly linked.)

- Edit 2 -

Oh it's two slightly different pages; one specifically built-into-CSSU, the other still being the in-general one. NVM.

F2thaK

2011-02-23 11:38

Re: The in-development Maemo 5 Community SSU

is there a portrait task manager in the works?

bergie

2011-02-23 11:44

Re: The in-development Maemo 5 Community SSU

Quote:

Originally Posted by imacmillan (Post 953537)

if apple can do it, so can we. well not me personally because im useless but the brilliant developers we have as part of the community.

Some applications on iOS are landscape-only. Mostly games like Angry Birds.

Jaffa

2011-02-23 11:51

Re: The in-development Maemo 5 Community SSU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mentalist Traceur (Post 953541)

Anyway, back to this: if forcedrotation is only meant to be a tool, you'll still leave it in as a usable option, right? Or will it eventually be pulled out?

I don't see why it'd be pulled out; and keeping it in transitions.ini fits with the other options in there.

Quote:

The fact that apps that were built before portrait auto-rotation was common and thus don't support it, in my mind, isn't a good reason to throw out the newer and better model, or to hold back portrait support when at the end of the day, there's no reason most of those apps didn't have portrait support to begin with other than the fact that portrait mode wasn't an option at first.

Well, as an app author I wanted to follow the style of Clock and Hildon Application Manager. Doing that whilst supporting auto-rotation is harder work. So I didn't. Forced rotation breaks it.

Quote:

I guess the point of this sleep deprived rant is that it sounds like the future plan is something of a reversion to a default-rotation-off-unless-pre-programmed-that-way-with-an-auto-rotate-on-flag-in-the-code approach.

That's not a reversion! Forced rotation is a hack. An interesting one, but a hack nonetheless. There's no way a blacklist can cover all the options, all the apps in Ovi, all the apps a user might have internally. A whitelist is the only safe option.

Quote:

And I just don't see a good reason for that. It is far more effective, I think, to make non-auto-rotation a conscious choice for developers if they wish to hard-code non-auto-rotation into the program...

We've already lost some developers. Who's going to go back and add "don't rotate" patches into something which might be languishing?

Quote:

and barring that, let things auto rotate, and give users some built-in 'lock' system built in to Hildon Desktop itself to force specific apps into one orientation or the other only if they so chose.

An orientation lock is planned, but for the purpose of when you're lying in bed it doesn't rotate superfluously whilst browing the web (say). Not sure that's what you're referring to.

Quote:

Seems that my changes were in the wiki page originally made, not the one Jaffa placed under development. Personally, I think it should've been outside there, but linked to from CSSU development, actually, because whether or not an app works well in portrait seems to me to be a more general thing, than just the CSSU specifically. (Though they obviously are significantly linked.)

I've moved "Portrait mode" under Community SSU/Features. "In-built applications", for tracking the source and status, of Nokia's apps is under Community SSU/Development.

Perhaps "Portrait mode" should be moved back out from under Features, but if you do so, please bear in mind:

Our wiki uses sentence capitalisation for page names.
"Portrait mode" isn't very descriptive.

If it's called "Portrait mode", it should have an introduction to the various methods (rotatedaemon, CSSU's forcerotation & Ctrl-Shift-R) and then have against each app whether it supports rotation out-of-the-box (Phone & Browser) or whether or not it needs to be forced.

I'd also suggest "Fully usable" is reserved for those which have no bugs. This can then form the basis for the out-of-the-box whitelisting and force rotation.

maa-emo

2011-02-23 11:52

Re: The in-development Maemo 5 Community SSU

I'd like to thank all of you who have made the Community SSU possible.

Most of the bug fixes and features of CSSU are really nice. However, after uprading to CSSU from base PR1.3, my N900 seems to be somewhat more unstable than before. Most of you propably have experienced the I/O-wait / trashing episodes when you have used all the RAM, the N900 is swapping, and at the same time you write to your MMC flash? I use gPodder all the time, and typically that means downloading hundreds of megabytes of mp3 files. Often I have couple of web browser windows open etc. taking lots of RAM so this leads to swapping. Before the CSSU this meant that the N900 was totally unresponsive for long time, some times even 10 minutes, but if I just waited, it would come back to life after the slow flash memory controller got all the I/O done. However in the last week or two my N900 has crashed and rebooted many times under these circumtances (heavy load). It just dies, and since there is no syslog or anything, it's quite hard to tell what happened. The last time this happened today, the FAT filesystems corrupted and were mounted read only (doing the fsck thing in windows fixed that).

Am I the only one with this problem? I understand that the kernel or most other low-level software components have not been modified with CSSU so it might be just a coincidence and bad luck.

Anyway it would be GREAT if the CSSU folks could find out a way to optimize the kernel to avoid these horrible trashing episodes Frankly, Swappolube doesn't seem to help a lot if at all, just tweaking the swappiness value is not enough. Of course the root of the problem is the slow eMMC but maybe there is a way to avoid total lockdown and unresponsiveness.

generationally

2011-02-23 12:12

Re: The in-development Maemo 5 Community SSU

Hmm, my eMMC has got a new interesting name after the latest 12.1 update:

http://media.share.ovi.com/m1/s/2792...394ce78949.jpg

Of course, I cannot be sure that it is the CSSU upgrade that did it. Anyone else seeing the same thing?

EDIT:
Solved it thanks to Switch_:

Go Settings > Bluetooth > change device name to whatever you like, should clear up the issue. Its the configuration of the Bluetooth chipset that causes the issue.

For some reason my device name set under Bluetooth settings had changed.

freemangordon

2011-02-23 12:21

Re: The in-development Maemo 5 Community SSU

@Jaffa

Quote:

And what about user-managable blacklist, why it is not a safe option. Whitelisting applications would not 'remind' developers to include portrait mode support in new versions of their apps, while if they run their own application and see that it is looking ugly in portrait may lead them to desicion to include portrait support. And for the others - user can always blacklist application.

Jaffa

2011-02-23 12:27

Re: The in-development Maemo 5 Community SSU

Quote:

Originally Posted by freemangordon (Post 953585)

And what about user-managable blacklist, why it is not a safe option.

A whitelist is the only safe option for the CSSU to ship as default. I've explained why above. Having a blacklist for users who choose to enable forced rotation is perfectly sensible, however.

Quote:

Whitelisting applications would not 'remind' developers to include portrait mode support in new versions of their apps, while if they run their own application and see that it is looking ugly in portrait may lead them to desicion to include portrait support. And for the others - user can always blacklist application.

Patches welcome to make forced rotation support a blacklist. However, your "remind developers to include portrait mode" also equates to "give users a broken experience in the mean time".

The CSSU will, out of the box, provide an improved experience. Not a retrograde one. If it includes experimental options, they will be enablable by users willing to risk it and suffer the side-effects.

Carlito

2011-02-23 12:31

Re: The in-development Maemo 5 Community SSU

@Jaffa:

Can you tell me where to find the Open Media Player?

normaltusker

2011-02-23 12:36

Re: The in-development Maemo 5 Community SSU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carlito (Post 953595)

@Jaffa:

Can you tell me where to find the Open Media Player?

Same here. I want to know that too!

Switch_

2011-02-23 12:40

Re: The in-development Maemo 5 Community SSU

Quote:

Originally Posted by generationally (Post 953574)

This is something to do with the configuration of your Bluetooth settings..... I read a post about it yesterday but can't for the life of me recall the fix - I'll search and come back to you

EDIT
Go Settings > Bluetooth > change device name to whatever you like, should clear up the issue. Its the configuration of the Bluetooth chipset that causes the issue.
/EDIT

jd4200

2011-02-23 12:41

Re: The in-development Maemo 5 Community SSU

Does this some how prevent theme-customiser from taking affect?

After installing the CSSU, settings regarding transparency (haven't tried any others) do not take affect.

ejasmudar

2011-02-23 12:41

Re: The in-development Maemo 5 Community SSU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carlito (Post 953595)

@Jaffa:

Can you tell me where to find the Open Media Player?

The open media player is still in development. For the time bwing, u can try out the other alternatives.

onion

2011-02-23 12:53

Re: The in-development Maemo 5 Community SSU

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivgalvez (Post 953434)

Andrew, just one question.
Is there any work in progress to improve any of the other default applications?

I've started dabbling a bit with the RSS reader. Nothing to try yet.

MohammadAG

2011-02-23 13:07

Re: The in-development Maemo 5 Community SSU

I "announced" the mediaplayer here: http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/?p=26

It's still work in progress, I have to admit, the release date wasn't set by me and I expected us to miss it back in December, yet still published it as end of January.
The project however, is NOT dead.

If you can help with MafwPlaylist, that would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks to nicolai for MafwRenderer and MafwSource C++ wrappers, without them, this would be useless.

freemangordon

2011-02-23 13:09

Re: The in-development Maemo 5 Community SSU

@Jaffa

Quote:

However, your "remind developers to include portrait mode" also equates to "give users a broken experience in the mean time".

The CSSU will, out of the box, provide an improved experience. Not a retrograde one. If it includes experimental options, they will be enablable by users willing to risk it and suffer the side-effects.

Fair enough, my bad, misunderstood your previos postings as if forced portrait mode will be removed at all. Agree that above is the best solution.

laasonen

2011-02-23 13:12

Re: The in-development Maemo 5 Community SSU

Is there anyway to disable automatic rotation for certain applications such as AlmostTI, which don't work in portrait mode.

Video. (filmed in 90° angle)

Carlito

2011-02-23 13:12

Re: The in-development Maemo 5 Community SSU

Quote:

Originally Posted by MohammadAG (Post 953616)

Is it also possible to add the repeat-one-song function?

m4r0v3r

2011-02-23 13:20

Re: The in-development Maemo 5 Community SSU

Quote:

Originally Posted by karmax (Post 953451)

I installed the latest Community SSU Patch and I discovered the following bugs by using the Humanity theme:

- blurless doesn't work
- taskswitcher doesn't work
- zaxisrotation doesn't work
- forcerotation works only for the menù and a few apps

I tried with other themes (Digital Nature and Okuda) and everything is fine.

I can confirm this. Since this is why mine wasn't working, a quick question what's the rotation used in the menu in the humanity theme, since I prefer it to zaxisrotation

maa-emo

2011-02-23 13:24

Re: The in-development Maemo 5 Community SSU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carlito (Post 953622)

Is it also possible to add the repeat-one-song function?

And my number one feature request: GAPLESS PLAYBACK. I mean, really, this was an issue with iPods etc. more than 5 years ago, but is fixed in pretty much every self respecting media player today. Yes I know it is not technically trivial, and requires some ugly hacks, but it is a generally solved and documented problem.

Another great feature would be the ability to speed up (or slow down) the playback (when listening to podcasts and audiobooks).

MohammadAG

2011-02-23 13:29

Re: The in-development Maemo 5 Community SSU

Please don't go off-topic, I'll have a thread for the mediaplayer when it's done, I just mentioned it since some of you asked about it.

Carlito

2011-02-23 13:31

Re: The in-development Maemo 5 Community SSU

Quote:

Originally Posted by MohammadAG (Post 953636)

Please don't go off-topic, I'll have a thread for the mediaplayer when it's done, I just mentioned it since some of you asked about it.

Grazie! We'll wait for that one! For now, great work with portrait mode!! Thumbs up!

raverpol

2011-02-23 13:33

Re: The in-development Maemo 5 Community SSU

Quote:

Originally Posted by laasonen (Post 953621)

Is there anyway to disable automatic rotation for certain applications such as AlmostTI, which don't work in portrait mode.

Video. (filmed in 90° angle)

no, u can have it or not for now, play with it and experience how it works or leave it and wait until the project will grow

or

if you know how you can help those great guys who are doing amazing work for us!

razzvi18

2011-02-23 13:47

Re: The in-development Maemo 5 Community SSU

thanks alot ... everything working great... we love u guys.... without you, we would be another lost project on Nokia's shelf....

KimZ	2011-02-23 14:13

Re: The in-development Maemo 5 Community SSU

Hi,

I've just installed the latest cssu update today, then i upgraded some softwares that had an upgrade available like fmms, fastsms, sleep analyzer.I was on nokia's 1.3 before that with no cssu update.

after installing and upgrading I lost all my facebook contacts, when i go to IM and try to add a new account I don't find the option to add a facebook account. also i had e-mail widget which also disappeared and i can't add it any more.

can someone help me please?

debjitbis08

2011-02-23 14:20

Re: The in-development Maemo 5 Community SSU

Quote:

Originally Posted by KimZ (Post 953666)

Install rtcom-accounts-plugin-facebook package.

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