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I'm sure those electrons will penetrate any tablet, car or phone very efficiently.

On a more constructive note, including charger or not with electronics is a cultural thing. Yes, you read it right :) There is at least Japan that hasn't been including chargers with mobile phones for years, even chargers with proprietary connectors. I used to think that that was unfair, but now that we pretty much have USB standardised for this matter (wink, wink, Apple), getting a charger in your favourite shape, intensity and number of ports should really be a personal matter.

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And it's even multi-voltage, so that should get you from 130 kW up to 240 kW! ;)

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Only thing rapid about that is how fast it will find the bin!

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Wow. To quote my old high school physics teacher: "Now a Coulomb is a lot of charge. If someone tries to give you a Coulomb, you should probably give it back."

As for a charger for my (long awaited) jPad -- ya, I'm gonna go with that name to amuse and confuse my friends -- the only high capacity charger I already possess is in my car. I wouldn't even have that if my wife hadn't got it as a tchotchke from her old school when she attended a continuing education course. At least gasoline prices are low for now . . .

And I'm still wondering just what if anything I'll have to pay for import duty in the US. Reading the US Customs Service website is not an exercise for the amateur. Depending on how they value it, I might not pay anything . . . or I might end up writing a big check to the letter carrier or delivery driver. At least I've got plenty of time to save up the money. ;)

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Sorta surprised that the charger part is a complaint. I'm personally happy that it's not included - I have too many chargers that have gone unused from prior tablet purchases. They're almost all 1.8A or higher, where I'll probably settle for a 2.1A charger that was left unused from a prior tablet purchase.

But with that resolved by that kA charger (hehe) and the crowdfunding portion of this endeavor demystified - what will you guys really do with your tablet?

I'm... honestly clueless as to my own uses and curious as to your planned usage.

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I was gonna use it on holiday this summer... not now, I have another holiday next week , but I don't think it will arrive for that.

Edit...
I'm also confused as to why I upgraded to 64gb, I have no plans to put anything on it, and it has an sd card anyway!


So I guess my only use is on planes!

I needed you around when I ordered it... "now... do you really need it" :D

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My old laptop used for work and personal, is now not up to the task of video and image processing so I'm migrating everything from it to my desktop system. That will be my main computer. As it's not in an ideal location for ad-hoc browsing etc. and as I find phone sized screens limiting for certain stuff, the tablet will fill the portability hole left by the laptop, which will be migrated to either be used as a server or given to the kids to use, or given away.

So: heavy lift (desktop) -> round house and travel (tablet) -> everywhere (phone)

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It's better for the battery anyway.

Seriously, who cares if it charges in 3 hours or 6? Either of them just translate to "overnight".

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Not so good if you are using it plugged in, and its draining faster than its charging

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I'd imagine that the tablet will discharge faster than a 1A charger can charge it... remember that Jolla was using it a full day without charging. Well, if you are using the tablet to process signals picked up from space to figure out if there is something out there, maybe a 2A won't be enough either :P

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I've said this elsewhere before, but for myself, I've gotten really sick of trying to combine mobile computing with phone usage. "Smart" phones today are optimized for content consumption, avoiding any useful forms of user input, and locking down the device against pretty much any purpose other than displaying videos or playing games (all of which originate from tightly-controlled "walled-garden" ecosystems). Plus you've just gotta wonder just how much snooping is being performed by the cellular provider, the OS manufacturer, and various governments...

So yeah, right now I'm using a phone provided by my cellular company for making calls, and my N900s for all other mobile computing tasks. With luck, the tablet (should it ever arrive) will take over those tasks; I've got a portable bluetooth keyboard, and the tablet's screen looks awesome. :) It should make a fine portable text and code editor...

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This part. It seems as if administrative tasks weigh heavily with this purchase with a lot of folks.

Does it bother anybody that a lot of other media consumption, creative (design and development) and other more mainstream (read: modern/casual games, services like Evernote et al) are missing and might never come?

Or... as long as there's a terminal, ssh and Vi, who cares?

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It bothers me on a theoretical level but in real life other devices cover the areas, atleast for me.

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It bothers me that a terminal, ssh and vi are never included on any other mobile device these days, and normally you have to jailbreak/root/otherwise hack the thing to get them (as well as to get access to actually open/save files, etc.).

These items are core to my own usage of computers. So yeah, they weigh more in my book than all the other billions of content-consumption-crap apps available on other devices. :)

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As I see it at the moment primarily modRana (don't forget that the tablet has GPS :) ) navigation system and Mieru manga and comic book reader development.

And of course also some "tablety" things like web browsing, manga, ebook and document reading, etc.

That's of course an initial estimate - it really depends what we can manage to get running on the tablet (ScumVM, virtualization, LibreOffice, XWayland, GTK3, alternative distros, etc.) and what we can connect to it (keyboards, USB Ethernet, USB modems, etc.).

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I can understand and appreciate this... but at the same time where you're always having to install vi (or vim), terminal, ssh (for the last two, I use Better Terminal Pro) I actually use terminal emulators which have been around for ages.

But as a creative, I have to install a ton of apps that I'd use since no mobile OS includes everything from the beginning. No handwriting capture at OS level. No graphic apps past the camera app and simple tweaks out of the box. Nothing.

You at least get Jolla, which will have terminal and vi from the beginning. iOS, Android & Jolla require me to install something to enjoy it out of the box.

Sadly, out of the box, it doesn't seem like I'll get to enjoy much with Jolla. That's fine. I'll install... oh wait. What I need isn't there.

Developers that can dev what I need don't want it there or don't find it necessary since they'll not use it; so it'll be ignored. Thinking of use cases outside our ourselves should be community.

We use computers differently. I have a laptop that was supplied by work, another I use for my personal work. I use my iPad for meetings where I hate taking in my laptop, and I use my iPad for media consumption. My phone, I use it for communication only - email, voice, text. I've started to use tablets in lieu of paper now. So I use stylus, handwriting input, I create wireframes and even create, code, ssh and deploy websites from my tablet (Ludomade Wireflow, Panic Coda for iOS, Panic Prompt 2, Adobe Comp, Adobe Draw, Adobe Line, Adobe Sketch, AppSeed, Marvel, Penultimate, Procreate among many others) and then I can do what I want on my tablet in my daily operations.

You're right though. Out of the box, no existing mobile OS delivers a wide gamut that includes your needs and mine. But has any mobile OS shown that it could deliver for a wider range of user needs beyond media consumption?

I don't even listen to music on my tablets. They tend to stay on mute, always. I hate notifications by default.

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Please bring out Mieru for Jolla. Pretty please, with sugar on top.

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Yes, absolutely. What you need isn't there. What you need is the latest toys available from the App Store or Google Play. If you don't have the very latest toys, you won't get to enjoy much with this tablet.

You have been trained well, my son. The Dark Side is strong within you. ;)

(But honestly, what exactly do you need on this tablet that you can't get by using the Android compatibility mode? I mean, I'm pretty sure you _can_ actually download and run those apps that you download and run on other Android devices...)

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Personally, I think it is good there is an alternative out there besides google and apple.

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Let me turn that question around though. Why do you need a Jolla tablet when you end up having to install Android apps for pretty much everything? What is the benefit of buying a Jolla tablet with 100 Android apps as opposed to an Android tablet with ONE extra app (the terminal)?

Yeah, that sounds about it.

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Reading news and books and magazines, surfing web and watching video on demand like Netflix and YLE Areena in the bed. It will replace my old Android tablet.

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Very true. :) But of course, it isn't just that one extra app; I've got an entire suite of programs that will run quite well in a classic unix environment. Ultimately, it's the ability to run good old desktop unix programs on the device that I crave...

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Why not just use surface pro, install photoshop instead of 25 apps that each has 1/100th of the functionality and be done with it? JT will have x86 so maybe you can dualboot windows for actual desktop apps (premiere pro? or do you need 25 different apps that each has one or two filters you want to use). With GTK now wayland compatible if we can run weston on JT we should be able to run stuff even without recompile from normal distros, so GIMP/libreoffice etc, rather than windows phone office which has support for bold and italic (and font size, ok, that too)

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For the system UI.

Last time I tried it, Android was very painful to use on a tablet. Just boring, getting in your way and such. Maybe it wouldn't be so bad if there were no alternatives, but webOS 3.0 and iOS were/are both a joy to use on a tablet with their gestures and overall user experience, so Android seemed very out of place with its user unfriendliness (mind that I am talking just about tablet UI, not phone UI).

I don't use Android apps that much on the Jolla phone (even though I expect Kodi to be one of the apps I'll use on the tablet the most and there's no port yet, so the Android one will have to do), but even if all the apps I use were Android ones, I would still greatly prefer webOS/iOS/Sailfish 2.0 user interface and it would definitely be a reason to buy a tablet that provides me with that possibility.

That's what I sometimes don't get when people say "I only use Android apps, so there's no reason to choose Jolla over any other Android phone". Seriously, on the phone, the UI (Sailfish 1.x) makes a huge difference, no matter what apps you use (even though you gain more by having native apps with the 'swipe to go back' and other features).

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Hmm... to turn this around, you just need what has existed for over 40 years. An easy to implement terminal. In fact, feel free to bicker if bash, zsh or whatever terminal is your favorite.

I know your tone is playful, but let's be honest. As a person also with an IT background, I used to do all of my work on a Nokia 770. The Jolla tablet would more than be efficient in doing that work.

Actually, I'm now an advocate for the users. Sadly, not many devs think outside of themselves now it seems. **** has just gotten uglier, more inconsistent and almost as unusable as before. Enjoy it while it lasts - those products never reach critical mass and fade away into legends that are oft over-bloated and not worth mentioning unless you're feeling nostalgic.

Actually, it's all there in Android. But I'd rather involve as little as possible any Android whatsoever. The tablet, to reach more folks, actually might need more than just a terminal - which I actually do use as well.

I've oft stated this one point in the past... no perfectly fine-tuned piece of hardware matched with efficient software has done well. Ever. Psion, Maemo, MeeGo... all gone, dead, forgotten, still worshipped.

Yet the mediocre hardware and OS (iOS, Android for instance) seems to flourish. It's nothing more than convenience, acceptance rate and marketing somehow makes folks want it more than they should. Embedded Linux should reign supreme. Hell, I'm still waiting on the "year of the Linux desktop" to happen (it won't).

But for bulletproof systems, I use Linux.

It would be nice for Jolla to have a future that includes more people than just a bunch of terminal happy nerds that still bicker over shells, text editors and rarely complete a project that doesn't look (or work) like it got hit with the entire ugly tree.

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I do. In fact, I use more than one OS per day.

Why limit myself to just Windows, Mac? Apple or Google? Want Jolla to be here tomorrow? Expand who the **** can use it perhaps?

We're here at TMO, formerly ITT. Guess what stuck around longer than the devices that we liked? This site. Apparently thinking outside of your own use cases is nearly goddamn impossible for folks here... still.

My point isn't about what options exist outside of the Jolla tablet. I ****ing own them already and use them... and I test on them too for my job that needs more than few, minor out of the box stuff that seemingly will make you and others happy.

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Yeah, that's the whole point, this site seems to attract people who actually care about that use case. If you want to discuss best 25 paid ipad photo editing apps... well, wrong site, can't help you with that. Whether it is n900 that fits our use case best atm, or jolla, yeah, devices come and go, yet vi lives on (or emacs, whatever, prefer ed anyway)

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Seriously??? That is Sailfish's Unique Selling Point? Then God help them.

In case you did not know, you have a choice of UI on Android, unlike on Sailfish (I do not know about iOS, Windows, BlackBerry etc). Some of them use swipes almost as much as Sailfish.

Don't get me wrong, I use a Jolla as my main phone. Even though compared to my N900 it looks and feels like a toy. But the UI was definitely not the main consideration. And I do not have a single Android app or even Android support installed. Because I consider it counter-productive. If I wanted an Android device with a slightly different UI, I would have purchased an Android device with a slightly different UI. A suit does not a man make.

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None of those paid tablet photo editing apps measure up to Photoshop & yes, I know this is the wrong site for that. I'd not waste my time here with those kinds of things.

But here and TJC are the only places to gain an audience with Jolla. Here's for devs/IT/geeks (hey, I'm one too!) and TJC seems to be for folks that fall for the illusion of participation.

Instead, I will keep up my rhetoric and ensure that just more than one type of voice is heard.

Personally, I'm a vi person. Been one since IBM RS/6000 days.

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Then what would you say is their unique selling point?

Don't you dare say terminal. That's even more laughable.

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I don't understand the sentiment of your message. Of course it is one of the main selling points and especially in the situation you described. Of course it is subjective, but I can say that the Sailfish UI is the main thing I miss on other devices - it is easy and great to use. I have heard the same from other (non tech-oriented) people I have showed my Jolla to, so I am absolutely positive the great UI is a strong selling point.

First, of course you can have different UI on Sailfish - there is Glacier as an example what can be done and if there was any will, then it would be no big problem to port for example the LuneOS UI, as it is based on lipstick as well. So there is the possibility, but I suspect that the main reason why not more UIs for Sailfish have appeared is the overall satisfaction with the default UI (and I suppose that is not the case on Android and that's why there are so many skins).

Second, I am aware of the possibility to have different launchers on Android, and trust me I tried many, while trying to find a usable UI on the tablet, but none of them came even remotely close to webOS/iOS experience. The reason might be that the possibilities how to alter the UI on Android by changing the launcher are quite limited (see the struggles of Jolla Launcher on Android).

Maybe you know better and could recommend an Android launcher that can match the webOS/iOS/Sailfish tablet experience?

I wasn't talking about you - just reacting to your "only Android apps" scenario. For me, there are many different reasons why I chose Jolla/SailfishOS (GNU/Linux, Wayland, btrfs, RPM, multitasking, Qt/QML, the familiarity of the system, (mostly) open source, clear design language, TOH, wanting to support an alternative), but the UI is definitely among the major ones.

And again, please recommend me an Android UI that can match that experience.

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Well, of course, their unique selling point is that you have more control over the OS than you would get from Google, potentially allowing you to insert your own branding items directly in front of your customer's eyes even more easily than Android would let you. You also have much better access to the source code of the OS, which is helpful for various purposes (such as security).

Because, of course, Jolla's business is selling Sailfish to equipment manufacturers! Jolla was never really interested in marketing their own hardware to end-users. (And it shows. ;) )

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I plan to finally start working on it again once I get the Jolla tablet in my hands. Kinda couldn't bring myself to work on it before that when there is some much to do on modRana. :)

But of course once it is running on the tablet it should also run on the Jolla phone (and other Sailfish-running devices), on Android and on Linux desktop. Basically all the modern platforms modRana supports that have Python 3 and Qt 5.

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Honestly? I am still trying to figure that out. And, judging by Jolla's level of market penetration, so are their potential customers.

All I can say is what attracted me to Sailfish:
https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.ph...64#post1457464

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I can totally appreciate this level of honesty. Thanks.

For me, it's just another platform that allows me to tinker like I did with my Nokia N810 (loved that device)...

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You mean more access than even AOSP? Android is pretty darn open. Only Mer/Nemo perhaps is even more open. You don't have access to a few things - UI being one of them - in Jolla.

But openness rarely equates to sales. It ends up being a byproduct of other endeavors.

I can appreciate your answer though. Thanks!

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Well, no, the user doesn't have access to the UI. But I would assume that Jolla's customers have access to the UI, at least to some degree. :)

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That's the main complaint for Jolla folks and the UI. With that said, leave openness out of the discussion if you're picking and choosing... all or nothing.

But whether or not it is "more open", open or closed... that doesn't really begin to answer my original question surrounding if more tools for more varied use cases will ever appear.

Funny how "open" usually leads to rather closed-minded or closed-off situations for most anybody that is not well within how narrow a scope exists for a device or mobile OS.

Not exactly sure that's something that really matters any longer for anybody that's not in dev/IT. It just means it's open to be tinkered with, it seems.

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Seems like they are maybe preparing to send the next wave of invites as I can now also now see the order completion items on the cart of my jolla shop account... :)


Edit: Ookay... and now the cart is empty again... :eek: :(

Edit2: Oops.. It's still visible through checkout/cart :)

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It appears so... my items were back in the shopping cart in the special IGG shop and, erm, I paid. Why not? They may tell me off but I don't have to worry about VAT any more :P