Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

What will be the next generation Windows Phones after Nokia Lumia? Nokia Puta? To keep up the tradition of Spanish names? :)

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

ROTFL Lumia900 deosnt even compete with N9....

But No problem for MicroNokia they will continue patenttrolling instead of compete :mad:

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

patenttrolling is a way to compete, ecpecially in US.

I see no problem with that. All companies do that.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

As an european individ I do not blame Americans for Nokias fault. But still I am upset why on earth we europeans prefer to sell out Nokia and other companys to america and Asia? Same goes for swedish Sony Ericson or carindustry etc....

THAT makes me pissed. European should invest more money to make atleast an european Twitter, Facebook, utube, google and have a good innovations in IT and other industry too.

Nothing wrong with americans, asia but still there needs to be some kind of "balance" and alternatives.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Have you travelled the globe?

Show me the money! That is whats going on :)

The econmicall power have traveled the globe for centuries. Just wait 300 years and it might be Africa.

Plus, some countries have bigger loans than others ;) and noone is paying, just printing money :D

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

nokia act like apple now


because of this?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Exactly, and it is no different in Europe. Nokia has been lazy, and ridiculously so. The whole idea of patents is it gives you a legal document so you can go out there and protect your inventions from exploiters and frauds like HTC, Apple and RIM taking advantage of your hard work. A patent is not some medal you get because you have been clever, and it gives you no protection. You have to actively go out there yourself and protect your rights when they are exploited by others.

Anyway, it didn't seem to have any affect on the stocks, lower than ever today :p

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Hoax or not, it had more sense than the plan A. The share price already tells pretty much.

It is sad, Nokia cannot even make Pureview-camera phone with Meego, because the agreement with Microsoft. Dual-core, 1GB RAM Meego-phone with Pureview-camera would help alot while Nokia is waiting for WP8 to be ready (in 2013?).

If something is a hoax, it is Elop himself.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Yeah, either The "Nokia Puta" or the "Nokia Enculada" line.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Nokia puta really cracked me up while i am sitting in a Mexican restaurant having a dinner on a business trip. Thanks to that, needed a laugh after 9 he long meeting.

on topic:
i have money aside to buy a 100 shares of Nokia if some broker can provide me with real printed stock certificate. Exactly same as gerbick i know , its a coincidence only.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

All of the companies you listed were started by American individuals with minimal budgets. So I ask you, why don't you go out and do the same? Why complain and wait for someone else to do it? I don't mean to criticize you, I am just asking it as a rhetorical question. Maybe the reason all those companies are American ones is because there is an American mentality that is different than that of Europeans. Everyone in the USA is dreaming about how to start more companies like that every day.

Also, Europe has good car companies. VAG is on top, for one. I don't know why they bought Ducati, but I guess they can because they are on top. Just because GM left Saab to die you should not be disappointed.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

It could be Nokia mierda just to show what's the value of the device and the stock, 2 in 1 and we all win

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Honestly, we should expect nothing else form him. His words can have a direct influence on the stock value. If he had as much as hinted that he was questioning Elop's viability he would have sent the stock plummeting on speculation that there would be changes. So in short. this means nothing. For all we know, he is planning on dumping Elop tomorrow and putting Hologram Steve Jobs in charge.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Ollila the ex-chairman told that there will be a windows tablet. What kind of disaster shall that be? Why are the trying to be a PC manufacturer (again, there was that booklet flop)?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I believe the Mierda will be the WP8.5 line of Nokia devices, if the WP8 Enculada line makes it....

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

http://www.macrumors.com/2012/05/03/...phone-vendors/ (Sorry if repost)

Not much Nokia left, well not much left of anyone but two.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

My favorite line: "It's hard to break through. It's been harder than we expected," Chief Executive Stephen Elop told shareholders.

Are you kidding me? You took what was already a company in a downturn, you pooped all over your current offerings, married your product to the most losing platform out there (incredibly, doing worse than Blackberry and Palm!) and you have the audaciousness to exclaim that you expected it to be easier than this? Elop--you're an unbelievably stupid person and it's possible that you're clinically stupid if you can say such a thing openly where people can hear you in private much less out loud to the press and shareholders.

Of course they are! There's so few of them left, I'm sure they're just FIGHTING to keep what's left of their jobs. Now THAT's pride!
http://farm1.staticflickr.com/30/678...ed0_z.jpg?zz=1

If only you were right. The INTENT of patents is to allow an inventor to protect their inventions and to profit from their ideas. In truth, they are simply a legal right to a monopoly over an "invention" whether or not you are the "inventor" or just a patent holder or some entity that holds the rights to said "invention." Even the word "invention" is used VERY loosely with regards to patents in this day and age. Some "inventions" are nothing more than an idea with no tangible or actual invention in fact. (i.e. business methods, software, etc. they're even skirting alongside discoveries pretending they're "inventions" like genetic information, for example.).

Oh what a f***ed up system it is. If ONLY it were used just to protect inventors and to promote inventions, instead of being used as a club to violently beat others over the head.

These things should be put into a little plastic sleeve and sold in a vending machine alongside similarly priced candy. I'm sure they'd sell more that way and probably be worth more as an image than as actual stock value, pretty soon!

For one, the banking meltdown might have put a severe hamper on start-up capital. Banks aren't willing to lend to start-ups anymore. Seriously--why don't YOU go out and try to see if you can help him raise capital for his start-up. It's not as easy as it was during the time periods when the start-ups he mentioned started up.

Heheheh.. They should have named a car the Lumia and used the VAG acronym to badge their car! :) Honestly, today is the FIRST TIME I've ever heard of Volkswagen referred to as VAG and I laughed for a good few seconds before and after Googling it (safeword mode!). heheh Nice.

Now, now... they intended to convey cheap and trashy, not outright crap. Besides, I'm sure that name is already reserved for another Microsoft product somewhere.

Ooooo! Nokia should TOTALLY hire John Sculley!

http://frankandjan.com/WIT/wp-conten...11/11/BOBS.jpg

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I'm only responding for one reason...

There's VAG in this thread.

tee hee

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Right?!? Who would have expected THAT around here?!
http://img.ponibooru.org/images/90/9...71cada86a090e9
SHUT UP, HOMER!

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

If only it would be that simple... For one, Europe lacks the institution of venture capital which can be a key differentiator between a success and a total Elop, err I mean flop. You can have an incredibly good idea, you can even find crème de la crème developers to execute it and willing to work for peanuts, but you need a sizable amount of money to burn before it could even have a prospect to become self-sustaining one day, let alone profitable. Due to all kinds of laws and general socialistic nature of most European countries it's quite expensive to own capital and throw it around on start-ups for the vague promise some of them will bring 1000%+ returns - at least far more expensive than it is in the USofA which makes European VCs, and by extension start-up companies far less competitive than their USofA counterparts.

The only `real success` (tho still questionable if profitable, but Microsoft seems to think so) of such garage companies coming from Europe, that I know of, is Skype, which - lo and behold - also had to jump over the Atlantic pond and secure money from USofA VCs like DFJ and others - and were it not for the P2P foundation of it, which by default requires far lesser amount of money and resources to establish the initial network, it would've probably flopped before anyone of us even heard about it. And in the end, now it is a USofA company.

Mind you, I don't blame the USofA for that, I'm just saying that the things aren't as rosy as you paint them to be, and while the stories of 'two college dropouts forming a company in their mom's basement and becoming billionaires over night' are nice and soothing, they are less real than the fairy tales featuring a prince on a white horse showing up from nowhere and solving all the life's problems. You need money to make money, and in that regard Europe is no competition for the USofA. And while you can find VCs in Europe, and even get American VCs to invest in your start-up, those opportunities are far lesser, and far more sparse, not to mention far more expensive, than you can get if you were in the US. Many European companies (mine amongst others) open a USofA branch (which becomes a virtual HQ) for that reason, and then should their business become a success they are not considered European companies, mainly due to the large stake of the business owned by American VCs.

In the past several years, tho, what with the recession and global economic crisis, it's been increasingly difficult to start a successful start-up company anyway, so it's a moot point to even discuss why there isn't an European Facebook/Twitter/Youtube/etc.



Software / business methods patents are the / of all evil in the modern industry, especially the IT industry. They are a legalized monopoly mostly owned by huge companies and patent hedges, used to bully the competition and ensure your acclaimed top spot. While they might have made some sense in the distant past when inventions were scarce and it benefited all for those inventions to come in the open ASAP as the production was limited, these days they just make no sense. Not to mention that back then at least you couldn't patent an idea or an algorithm, which you can do now.

Imagine if music could be patented back in the XVIII/XIX century - you'd have something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slVseKxhjjU . It's pretty much the same these days when it comes to software.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

for sure nokia will die if they cannot invent the alternative to iphone and android device.. buy or not? maemo fails... meego fails.... symbian ongoing to fails.... wp is just a windows.... but i predict that wp will succeed if they can fight hard through several years to come... and if they succeed there will be another maemo/meego device for us.. cheers:cool:

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

We have very good car companies.
Even in the "expensive sector":
http://www.netcarshow.com/bugatti/20...ibier_concept/

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I liked this Quote from the comment section on Tomi's blog:

Yes. That's the way to go into the future. Sabotage Microsoft's Skype.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Good news to open standards VOIP systems, if they start to restrict and sabotage Skype.

http://ekiga.org/

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

VOIP systems are here to stay. In America, the few big carriers can afford to upset their customers by blocking certain data traffic. But that would be the exception. Here, I think it would probably even be illegal.

I am assuming what Microsoft is doing, is something akin to what Spotify did. Pee on free users and gain a larger paying subscriber base in the process. Less traffic, more income. Win for Spotify/Skype, Win for competitors that want more users. Or want to sell phones with non-crippled software.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

This is a little off topic but since it came up; I have never undertood the concept of patents. When I was starting out as a researcher at university all those years ago we had somebody come in and talk about IP and patents. What he essentially told me is that you cannot patent an idea but you can patent a method. Trouble is that most of the things I've seen patented are ideas and often the method itself is an idea anyway. I remember him then asking the audience can you patent a green ball. I thought, no, but it turned out you can because high visibility ball is the idea and painting it green is the method. He then went on to discuss how to file for a patent and the cost. I've been confused about and hated patents since then. To me they do not promote innovation, they are merely a barrier to entry for independent inventors.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

one hundred percent agree with you.... the day will come when you have to pay a royalty just to paint your car green!

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

One of the main issue with patent is that they are absolutely not scalable (aside from the difficulty to judge what is patentable and what isn't).
Basically every inventor is supposed to check everything patented by every other inventor (so that's inventor squared complexity). Plus, with systems of systems as we have today, the value of the base bricks decrease much more rapidly than the patent constraints (software practice and transistors become market standard/ old tech in a couple of years, whereas patents stay for 20). That means for the same amount of innovation in a product, at constant R&D investment, there is an increase number of patented parts (and related costs) in your product.

Patents should fade at the same pace as tech improve (ie life of patent ~ life of tech / size of the industry R&D)

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Nokia stocks are still going down. Major fall today.

Nokia Stock $3.17 -0.19‎ (-5.53%‎)

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Look at how their profits dropped since Elops announcement. They went from first (second since Elop) to dead last.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=CPVTkLOOPho

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Cool. Time to buy more

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Oh, I heard another funny thing while reading through Tomi's blog. Unfortunately, it can't be right.

One who was at the stakeholder's meeting, said Elop had said that the 8 mill N9's that were sold had... How did he phrase it...

Alas, it's not right. Nobody else who were there heard any such thing, but I do wish it'd be true :B

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

It goes further than that... It's not the method that counts as much as the claims presented. You can fill a patent that would state in the Claims part something as vague as 'Cleans your butt with lateral hand movement' describing the method how you clean your butt with their toilet paper, and then you can get sued if you sell a bidet that utilizes the same 'technique' and get sued for infringing on their toilet paper patent. Of course, this is a bit pushing it, but that's how today's patent system works - if something you do appears in the claims of another patent, you can get sued easily, and even if you can prove that yours is a completely different method you would still need millions of dollars just to fight it at court which many small companies / individuals just cannot afford. It's legalized bullying!

Here is a nice testimonial from a guy that managed to fight them off: http://youtu.be/E_lb3D7Ay-M , sadly - on each such testimonial, there are 100s of testimonials of business collapsing due to inability to fight them. If you have the time, seek for the documentary 'Patent Absurdity', they show quite colorful ways on how patent trolls and troll-like companies operate. And why you have to become a patent troll yourself if you want to survive. Sad world...

Anyway, back to the topic, let's talk Nokia stock... Probably closing the week at a shy bit over $3 on NYSE, and 2.4€ dead on ETR... What stock?! They are now almost twice as much valuable sold in parts than their market value, a hostile takeover is quite possible, although I think the potential buyers will wait for Elop to sell out everything non IP related with his obvious gambling habits to fuel his delusion... The moment he lays his eyes on the IP and start selling it en masse somebody will take them over. Probably Microsoft, if they are willing to risk investigation that would surely ensue in that scenario.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

You're right, doesn't make any sense, could be false information. If 8 million N9s were sold, how did they make such a huge loss, and why didn't he release these figures. That news would have been welcomed by investors. Unless he prefers to please Microsoft instead helping the market share rise from the pits

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Seriously many people is pissed about Nokias strategy.

But right now I think this is REALLY bad.

Hell the stock dropping must stop now!

it has gone down 2/3 since February 2011.

Seriously how long will this mess continue!?

We already knows, Nokia will not change strategy in case of WP.

So if this mess continues. It will only hurt next billion and QT. And that is not good for us who prefer QT and still hopes on "meltemi" :(

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Learn Java, Dalvik and Android. Qt and Nokia do not have any future.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Depending on HOW you intend to paint your car green, you already legally can't do so without paying a royalty. Just by example: if you negatively charge the body of the car while painting it with positively charged paint particles, you're already violating several patents.

I'm clearly unqualified to dispense investment advice the way you are but I get the impression that, at this rate, it's ALWAYS time to buy but never a good idea. heheh

Seriously. Even just improving customer service and putting kiosks in malls with people selling devices (they don't necessarily need a whole store!) would make a HUGE difference in how they're approaching customers and getting out there. In my opinion, Elop is either clinically stupid, a mole for Microsoft or both--and I think both are just as likely.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Nokia - debatable. Qt - certainly has a bright future and not much Nokia even as owner of Trolltech can do about it. It doesn't have any future on mobile devices, tho... that prospect was taken behind the barn and shot in the head by yours truly Mr. Elop.

Granted, there are still hopes of its resurgence, but I wouldn't hold them high. Even if Nokia does another 180 turn, it will be hard to entice all the lost talent in the past year due to their fling with Microsoft... And Nokia hardly has some weight left after this intentional starvation to throw behind Qt on mobile and push it properly...

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

That's a confusing sentence. Did YOU yourself kill it? (yours truly) Or, did Mr. Elop kill it?

"Yours truly" is usually used to refer to yourself as the speaker who's just said something.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I'd like to point out that before Nokia had even sniffed at Qt/Trolltech, Qt were doing just fine. It was an active part of the Linux community, and I attended an development seminar where Trolltech demonstrated how amazingly easy it was to code Qt.

Qt should have the potential to do just fine without Nokia. The question is, however, if they get the chance to stand on their own feet again.