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Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles

Quote:

Originally Posted by ossipena (Post 1161663)

http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/image...figures%29.png

when was the burning platform stuff again?

Oh come on!

http://www.computerworld.com/common/...et%20Share.jpg

Hm, iPad is a failure, Apple must ditch it.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles

Quote:

Originally Posted by strongm (Post 1161579)

Firstly, This is opinion, not fact. It isn't born out by the current global figures. All the major stat counters (StatCounter, Net Application, W3 Counter, Clicky etc) show IE being ahead globally. Yes, there are regional variations and yes IE's market share has dropped over the years, but that does not support your above contention..

I use IE7 at work, because I'm forced to. It's fact that it's worse than ff, chrome, or IE8/9, but I'm still using it. Considering how many people use Internet at work, this is a significant bias in the "global figures". And being an IT friendly browser does not sell to teenagers (that's fact too).

Quote:

Originally Posted by strongm (Post 1161579)

Secondly, the version of IE on Windows Phone 7 is actually IE Mobile 9, which is not the same thing as desktop IE9 (just as the Mozilla-based MicroB on the N900 is not the same thing as Mozilla Firefox); they could just as easily called it Fred.

And they should have called it Fred. Because of the Brand. The intrinsic cappabilities of IE Mobile 9 don't count when choosing a mobile in the shop. The name does. But I don't have figures on opinions on mobile browsers, so it's hard to back this up completely.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles

Quote:

Originally Posted by ossipena (Post 1161661)

how about the hardware?

what about adapting the "free" linux to hardware? If I remember correctly, Maemo project still costs some millions per year. That is bit much from "free" OS IMO.

But I'm sure properietary system would cost more. And even with the M$ support, it'd be harder to move it to other devices

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles

Quote:

Originally Posted by ossipena (Post 1161663)

when was the burning platform stuff again?

Your graph shows market share not profit.

At the moment Elop announced Symbian EOL it had:

1) Never made a loss in any quarter EVER.
2) Never been outsold in any quarter ever.
3) Growing sales (just not growing as fast as the overall market, hence the reduction in market share)
4) Increasing margins (as a result of the introduction of the N8)

Sure the UI NOKIA had on top of Symbian was rather fusty and desperately needed a revamp but it was still holding up well enough to give them time to get that fixed.

As NOKIA invented the smartphone if you follow your graph back far enough you'd see NOKIA with 100% market share but at that point it would have been a very small market. Now they have a smaller percentage but it's a much bigger market.

Would you swap 100% of your income for 10% of David Beckhams? I'll bet most people would just as I'll bet most companies would have loved the 'problems' NOKIA had before Elop induced meltdown.

Anyhow, I'd suggest it's better to lose your number one position than lose control of your own destiny. Unfortunately NOKIA have lost both.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles

Quote:

Originally Posted by qwazix (Post 1161568)

I can't stop thinking that either somebody in Nokia is hopelessly stupid or they are deliberately torpedoing market share. The have now unleashed a giant Lumia 800 ad campaign here in Greece. But

1. They have pulled all other nokia high-end smartphones from the shelves. So there is no synergy from the NOKIA moniker appearing everywhere. No E7, no N8 no X7.

2. They have placed the Lumia in stores next to the iPhone 4S. There is not one spec in which the Lumia is better than the 4S, and the 4S screen looks way better in store. (I love AMOLEDs, I would choose one every time, but a brightly lit operator store does not help to show off the awesome blacks of amoleds, and the superior color and resolution of the Retina LCD is winning there)

3. The Lumia is actually more expensive than the 4S subsidised. Maybe this is under 1year vs 2year lock (unsubsidized the Lumia is cheaper) in but this was nowhere stated clearly (not even in the small print) so the consumer wouldn't know until they've made their desicion.

4. The ads are teenager oriented. Current nokia owners (NOKIA is no teenager brand, more of a mercedes of phones, that makes durable, reliable phones with good battery life and good cameras. "With contact groups your dirty pictures and your mom will never meet". Their words. Teenagers have less money to spend on phones, read tech articles, and love iPhones. And everybody else is left out in the rain to go android. Where will former E7 or N8 users go? They will be completely driven off with such a campaign.

5. IE is all over the place, as if it's a killer feature. Everybody knows IE is crap, especially teenagers. You don't advertise IE, you hide it. IE has less than 25% market share in desktops, behind firefox and chrome here in Greece. People do not like IE, most of those who use it, are forced to (workplace) or don't know any better (probably non smartphone users anyway)

So all that ad money goes to... iPhone. Even me, who's been changing Nokia handsets since the N-Gage, if I was drawn to a vodafone store and saw the iPhone next to the Lumia, better and cheaper, I would buy the iPhone.

I fear this ad campaign will be the swan's song for Nokia. They don't seem to understand simple market rules. We 'll see.

Have you seen met anyone with a WP in Greece??? I haven't, I;ve seen them in the stores but never seen anyone using it LOL and the funniest part is that the Nokia name is also fading.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles

I've got one :) (not nokia though) but ues I haven't seen anybody else xcept nokia employees.

The important thing about ossipena's graph is that even in 2014 projection shows symbian > than 4 times WP

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles

Quote:

Originally Posted by marmistrz (Post 1161686)

But I'm sure properietary system would cost more. And even with the M$ support, it'd be harder to move it to other devices

Probably yes, yet this doesn't affect any of my points.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles

Quote:

Originally Posted by qwazix (Post 1161673)

Oh come on!

http://www.computerworld.com/common/...et%20Share.jpg

Hm, iPad is a failure, Apple must ditch it.

Our graph have one tiny difference. Please let me know when you see it...

e: sorry, at least two things...

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles

Quote:

Originally Posted by qwazix (Post 1161712)

The important thing about ossipena's graph is that even in 2014 projection shows symbian > than 4 times WP

Does it matter how big symbian would be if it starts bleeding money?

As you can see from my graph which was released 22.9.2011, ~10%-point decline in market share while spending over 4B€ every year to platform plus two competitors gaining more and more users day by day. At least I would see risk of margin meltdown that would lead to massive loss and total default.

http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/...al_ball_th.php

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles

Quote:

Originally Posted by switch-hitter (Post 1161692)

Your graph shows market share not profit.

Exactly, it shows declining market share. The decision was about hanging on to own os, failure would lead into default or transforming company into pure HW + services (outside the next billion)