Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Yes. 10% of monthly salary is already close enough (Cue's post for data). With lowend offerings (Nokia developing for half ram as was defined in WinPhone7 product description) they opened new markets. Nokia and MSFT are going to reshape that market. Nokia by brand and quality, MS by $. 920 is not the whole NOK offering. Even asha phones for 1/3 price offer quality. The market there is not ripe for iPhone-type offerings (without subsidies 1000$ is hard to spend even outside China). Growing a user base is hard with too high price, Samsung/ZTE are more likely competitors in that market.
No idea what you mean by Meego working group, did china mobile release a meego phone?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Yes. Define significant percentage in China. There are 1,350,000,000 people there.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

That's 10% of GROSS monthly salary. You really think that's close enough? Really? Do you still live at home with your parents by any chance?

Cue's figures further support my argument. If only 11% of China Mobile's subscribers even have 3G in the first place, how many of that 11% will have a top end phone? How many of that little percentage will opt for a 920 in preference to a Galaxy or iPhone? The number just keeps getting smaller and smaller doesn't it?

On what do you base that assertion? So far nothing has happened that would suggest that's feasible.

Ashas aren't bad, however you can get an Android device of better spec for the same money and from Chinese manufacturers too. It seems patriotism is becoming a real factor in the Chinese smartphone market with Huawei, ZTE, Lenovo and CoolPad all enjoying growing support from the Chinese consumer. I understand Android's market share in China last quarter was over 90% as a result.


"Working Groups

The day-to-day operations of the MeeGo programs are steered by a number of working groups, which are delegates of the Technical Steering Group. The working groups are devoted to strategic discussions in specific areas and are accountable to provide input and guidance about requirements, direction, policies, and conflict resolution, within their area of responsibility. These working groups are open to maintainers and other individuals and organizations that specialize in the domain of the specific group."

MeeGo Handset Working Group

China Mobile had publicly announced their intention to offer MeeGo handsets to their subscribers before Elop pulled the plug on the project.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

I wouldn't be surprised if Nokia abandons mobile phones in the near future . It's become too competitive

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Nokia Lumia 920 Sold Out In 20 Minutes :eek:

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

It's only "too competitive" if you base your product strategy around something that doesn't put customers first.

"Once bitten twice shy" exists as a saying for a reason.

Microsoft have bitten their customers far to often in every area of technology to be relevant any longer and only the blind sheeples remain behind.

This much is obvious.

rgds

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Déjà vu from less than a year ago?
http://www.businessinsider.com/nokia...-at-att-2012-4

I'm beginning to think all those factory layoffs/closures had a devastating effect on output. They seem to be spreading them thin.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Is that just the Lumia 920 or the 920T? Ubergizmo appears to have omitted a lot of info from their article...

Another factor as to why there appears to be such demand for the 920 is that China mobile are offering the new Nokia flagship phone for just 1Yuan, yes they are practically giving them away.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Of course it could be that they only had one in stock and it took their best sales assistant twenty minutes to sucker some mug into buying it.

This smells like of one of WinKia's marketing stories to me (like the 900 outselling the iPhone in China, remember that?), let's wait and see what the numbers really are.

I read a comment on another site suggesting the 800s were all price dumped in just a few countries (UK and Italy being amongst them) in order to give the impression there's been a sudden jump in demand for Windows Phone in certain markets. Another desperate attempt at creating a 'positive buzz' around Windows Phone? I'll titter if Elop does make that boast in NOKIA's financial statements at the end of the quarter.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

We got to wait for financial statements. I suspect, like most of you, that the units sold are miniscule. Its a good phone, I would say excellent phone, given that I used it over my vacation and didnt miss iphone once. However, its not as ergonomic as iphone, apps are not as polished, and overall not as photogenic in terms of UI, as is iphone. Androids I dont do, cheap plastic Samsung garbage is not my cup of tea. I think that WP8 attempt shows that its not enough to be excellent, you have to really come up with something revolutionary to jump over apple or android. MS is trying to do it by having WP8 on desktop computers and phones, so hope is to convert the masses to a new UI. It remains to be seen if the strategy works.

Overall, Elop did the right choice at the time, but the choice is still not good enough. He did the right thing in getting rid of Symbian and other Taleban UIs, such as Harmattan, but it was too late. pre-Elop leadership missed the boat, the hemorrhage was heavy, and not even a good band aid could save this bleeding company. OH well, I hope I am wrong, but I like my stocks in financials better. So far 30% up from my last year :)

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

How can you look at what's happened to NOKIA versus what's happened to Samsung over the last two years and say Elop did the right thing? It's patently nonsense. He didn't have to publicly deprecate Symbian and MeeGo and he didn't have to exclusively adopt a PROVEN FAILURE of an OS. The resulting crash was inevitable.

Samsung must have spent the last two years laughing their socks off at NOKIA's meltdown at the hands of Microsoft's Trojan horse.



The UI was not part of Symbian, it was a layer on top. Most of the things Symbian gets criticised for are not actually part of Symbian.

Qt and QML would have made revising/updating/customising a UI a much quicker and easier process. NOKIA's pre-Elop plan was much more sensible and much more likely to succeed than Elop's absurd Windows Phone fiasco.

Incidentally Metro (or whatever it's called now) doesn't seem to be a particularly popular UI does it? There's nothing NOKIA can do about their 'Taleban' UI now, they're no longer in control of such things thanks to Elop.



Pre-Elop NOKIA were a profitable company with growing sales and a sensible path to the future even if they were travelling along it too slowly.

The catastrophic mess we see now is entirely Elop's doing.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

History is clearly your weakness. Root causes require historical, not HYSTERICAL analysis.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Feel free to be specific about what I got wrong. Including citations to real data would be helpful to make sure I don't make the same mistake again.



While we're pointing out each other's weaknesses here's a few of yours I've noticed:

Your analysis of the past is based on a past you've never provided any citations or supporting data for.

Your technical knowledge is somewhat lacking, you thought Symbian was Linux for example.

Your predictions of success for Windows Phone 7 proved rather inaccurate.

You're not very good at spotting winning devices, you said you couldn't understand why people bought the Galaxy S3 but you thought the original Lumias were what everybody wanted.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Pfft... Lumiaman has switched tactics. WP9 will be the turnaround for Windows Phone and Nokia. Only odd numbers are successful for Microsoft. Windows 95, Windows XP (2003), Windows 7, Windows Phone 9.

Just wait for it... wait for it.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

There are plenty of links all over the universe from ex Symbian and ex Meego people documenting the fall of Nokia prior to ELOP. So stop blaming ELOP and stop the per-ELOP nostalgia. You remind me of Russian ex-communists who waxed about this or that and blamed everything on Gorbachev. The empires were in decline for years prior to their current state.

With regards to your other off the mark comments, I am a Nokia lover, as I love the design as much as the UI. So for me, any Samsung crap is crap. Plus android is a pure iPhone imitation. Why not go for the original than? WP8 is trying to be a bit different. So I bet on what I like and what I buy. Lumia device are for the masses, but it arrived late. As I said above, you need revolutionary product to break thru. I just don't see it on the horizon.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

@Lumiaman

For a brief moment it appeared the cold light of reality had started to enter into some of your later posts, I thought that finally you had started to accept reality, then true to type you regressed.

Quote: "There are plenty of links all over the universe from ex Symbian and ex Meego people documenting the fall of Nokia prior to ELOP."

Where?

http://www.kitguru.net/software/oper...ar-than-vista/

rgds

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Another troll who doesnt know how to use Google....keep living in the Elop hate bubble......it will really help with your future endeavours.......


Nokia’s Big Misstep

So where did it all go wrong for Nokia? The cause of the company’s decline looks very simple with hindsight: Nokia should have moved off its smartphone platform Symbian and onto its next-generation platform, MeeGo, much sooner than it did. Years sooner.

By the time Nokia released its first MeeGo-powered smartphone – the N9, in 2011 — it was far too late to compete with Android and iOS. In any case, by that point Nokia had already publically committed to Microsoft and in starting down the Windows Phone path, Elop made the decision to abandon in-house alternatives such as MeeGo – meaning the N9 was effectively DOA.nokia-n9

“Nokia needed to have MeeGo ready to go into the market two years or even now perhaps three years ago,” says Leach. “They needed to be on their new platform probably round about 2008, 2009. If you think 2008 was just when Android entered the market, it was just a year after iPhone was finding its feet. Nokia really needed to be there at that point with its platform for growth — offering some kind of computing experience on the device.”

Leach describes the mindset he encountered when working at Symbian, between 1999 and 2004. “Symbian was always very phone-centric,” he tells TechCrunch. “In my own experience of being at Symbian working with Nokia there was always a frustration of [Nokia saying] ‘it’s got to be a phone first, it’s a phone, phones sell.’ And we’d be saying ‘there is different stuff you can do, you can adopt more of these kind of computing paradigms’ — and they really didn’t want to hear that.”

The core problem that brought Nokia low is not unusual for successful public companies that have worked their way into a position of marketplace dominance over a period of years (see also: BlackBerry maker RIM, for instance). Nokia’s business was cooking on gas in the mid 2000s, with massive profits and phone shipments keeping their shareholders happy and clamouring for more of the same. But this success evidently made it harder for them to change their business to react to the looming threats from internet-focused companies. You could also argue their view of the landscape ahead was clouded by their “blinkered, phone first” view, as Leach puts it.

Point to the CEO — apart from Steve Jobs – who relishes telling the shareholders it’s time to retire the gravy train, and start out afresh on a hand-cranked cart. But that, in effect, is what Nokia needed to have begun doing in the mid 2000s to survive disruption by a new generation of web companies who understood the future was data, not voice.

“What Nokia was looking at was their feature phones, which were still selling healthily then,” says Leach. “That mid-range feature phone market was the sweet spot and [their view was that] Symbian had to, in some way, be a feature phone with a little bit extra. That thinking really stifled them. And the problem then, when they realised they needed to do more, was that Symbian was a bit too old and wasn’t extendable enough to do the things they really needed to do.”

IHS Screen Digest analyst Daniel Gleeson makes a similar point: Nokia wasn’t thinking big enough when it really counted – and without a grand plan they weren’t able to act decisively to fix the strategic weaknesses that were being exploited by others. “Their emphasis was on incremental innovation of existing products rather than aggressively pushing a disruptive innovation,” he says.

“Their smartphone strategy was muddled at the time to put it politely,” he adds. “Symbian was the principal OS, but with Maemo/MeeGo also in development; Nokia was far from clear in its long-term commitment to either platform. Even if it could execute well, overly risk-averse management prevented Nokia making this decision. By attempting to juggle both, Nokia showed another fundamental problem, it did not understand the importance of ecosystems.”

The Significance Of Software

Dig a little deeper, and Nokia’s problems with its smartphone OS strategy are evidently problems with software more generally. The company fundamentally didn’t get software, says Gleeson — so they didn’t understand the crucial significance of apps and building an ecosystem around apps. “Nokia has almost always produced high quality hardware; but it was its software that was the weakness,” he says. “Nokia vastly underestimated the importance of third-party applications to the smartphone proposition. Each Symbian UI required its own custom build of the OS which limited the addressable market of any third-party apps.”

“Furthermore, Nokia had a blasé attitude towards compatibility of apps; breaking backwards compatibility on OS upgrades on multiple occasions e.g. S60 third edition, Windows Phone 8; and developing phones incapable of using some games available for earlier devices (e.g. Nokia 500, Lumia 610),” he adds. “Consumers are attracted to smartphones for their ability to be more than just communication tools, and so the lack of apps hinders adoption. One can simply look at the lack of some key apps such as Spotify from Nokia’s latest flagship as a continuation of this problem (Spotify is available on the Lumia 800 and 900 however).


and it goes on and on....the problem is not ELOP, its NOKIA, its culture, its history, its priorities and its lack of attention to software details. pre-Elop nokia phones rarely worked out of the box. you needed to wait for various updates to make them functional. N8, N900, N9, all clear abominations created prior to Elop. .....

Anyways, you are a troll of the rarest kind.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

@Lumiaman

And you are a fish out of water, trying to find relevance in a "Maemo" forum.

My N900 worked out of the box and it still does, it hasn't failed me once and everything I need it to do it does perfectly.

Clearly your findings are as usual false under even the lightest of scrutiny.

rgds.

ps. much easier to get someone else to do the Googling for me. thanks.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

@Lumiaman
I actually asked for data not an opinion piece (that you have copied without citation) but anyhow...

If you reread the piece you have copied you'll see NOKIA's original plan of MeeGo, Symbian and Meltemi with Qt as a common framework much better addressed what this article identified as NOKIA's problem than a change to Windows Phone did.

Let me quote from your own post:
I haven't a clue who Daniel Gleeson is or even what IHS Screen Digest is but it's clear this guy either doesn't know or doesn't understand what Qt/QML was for. Qt addressed all the things he claimed were issues and clearly demonstrated pre-Elop NOKIA absolutely did get the importance of the ecosystem. Whoever wrote this article really should have interviewed better informed 'analysts'.

The irony of this fool saying: "The company fundamentally didn’t get software" when it's so apparent he didn't understand the significance of Qt actually makes me feel slightly embarrassed for him :D
Honestly, what a numbnut!


But wait, the foolishness doesn't end there:
Qt was to address compatability problems, changing to Windows Phone exaberbated them (incidentally how many of the devices referred to in that quoted passage were pre-Elop?). How can you claim this as an argument for Elop when Windows Phone 8 isn't even compatible with Windows Phone 7 never mind NOKIA devices running other operating systems?

Qt was to be a common framework across MeeGo/Symbian/Meltemi. Now what do we have? WP8/WP7/Series40 - all incompatible with each other. This would be a disaster for NOKIA's ecosystem if they still had one but of course Elop gifted that to Microsoft.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

You are the biggest pre-ELOP apologist of all times and you clearly have no idea what was going on. You still don't get it that if everything was rosy, ELOP would not be in charge. Oh my, Nokia Stalinists all over this board

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Here is another nice read........with more details about what happened Pre-Elop........

http://taskumuro.com/artikkelit/the-...of-nokia-meego

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

These people you're labeling as "trolls" are people that have one underlying statement that's universally true... you expect your next CEO to make better decisions than the one prior.

OPK was not the best thing for Nokia after Jorma Ollila, and Elop isn't the better decision maker after OPK. Under OPK (this is well-talked about around these parts) Maemo was under-funded at a time it should have been pushed forward. Those gaps are just now being filled with the phablets by Samsung (10 million sold for the Galaxy Note II), 7 inch tablets by Google and Apple, and a Linux based OS/ecosystem/development environment like a lot of the competition that before just didn't exist before Maemo on a commercial scale.

You say troll. I see Nokia loyalists that wanted Elop to continue down a path that could have been corrected but wasn't. It was ignored. And thus left to die. Jolla, BB10, Mer, Nemo, Tizen (indirectly) and quite a few others are all benefitting from Elop ignoring Maemo. Sad when it could have been Nokia benefitting from that.

CEO's should make long-standing decisions that help the company. Sub-4.00 stock isn't a long-standing helpful position for Nokia.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

You're more like an ignorant Nokia tool.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

This! This is EXACTLY right.

For years I kept trying to hammer in the point that Nokia wasn't taking care of customers, too. Between intentionally designing open-core software with intentional obsolescence to make sure you bought the newer device just to get the next OS and software support, all the way to neglecting to have physical presence (even at least kiosks) in stores so people can return defective products for immediate replacement without shipping off their device for who-knows-how-long and possibly not even getting the same MODEL of device back (surprise!). The LEAST they could have done is make replacement parts available--even the STYLUS for these things weren't available as replacements! That could have been an EASY way go get revenue that customers won't mind paying for. Idiots. It doesn't seem like the contemptuous attitude toward customers at Nokia have changed, despite the new CEO.

Even at their worst, most other manufacturers have far surprised Nokia in every way, including all of the elements I've pointed out--far, far better support has been had by me and people around me from ANYONE else since switching to Android: Verizon, Amazon, Motorola, Samsung, Asus, etc. This goes a long way.

The point about Microsoft that is important to note, as well, is that Microsoft's domination in the 90's was a result of locking in customers into their ecosystem while trying not to be obvious about it, generally. Apple's been trying to do the same but far less clandestine about it. Thankfully, Google doesn't lock you in at all and welcomes you to leave anytime you please and lets you export your information to take with you and provides a fully-operational open-source version of their platform without the horrible crippling that Nokia made sure Maemo had.

Microsoft is rapidly losing its hold on the market-share now.
http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2012/10/...s-8-forrester/

And Apple is described as 'seething' that people are replacing their own first-party apps on iPhones with Google's own software:
http://www.businessinsider.com/googl...orking-2012-12

There's something to be said for listening to customers and giving them what they want. If Nokia wants to rise back up to relevance and success, it needs to stop pretending it knows what the customer wants and only needs to do the barest legal minimum to support the people who paid money for their products and services. That was never good enough. Nokia's original success was based on making what consumers wanted and then they eventually got too big and arrogant and lost their way.

The Lumia phones aren't impressing anybody and they STILL haven't managed to make themselves stand out from any other phone manufacturer. The CEO is a self-destructive idiot (I've long suspected that he might very well be clinically stupid... go on, ask me how! I'll LOVE to explain why I think so based on his record) that Osbourned his company out of the top-spot and very nearly into the bottom spot in the course of more than a year, just less than two). Nokia STOPPED doing anything that could possibly make them unique in any way (Maemo, MeeGo, Symbian, etc.)--even Samsung makes a pretty big deal of TouchWiz on Android and even has their own whole Bada platform which, appropriately, is STILL outselling Nokia's current offerings despite these silly recent articles about how the Lumias are selling out. Not to mention the release of control ALTOGETHER over the OS that runs on their own devices. Even the Android-based phones can choose how they want their device to run/look (once again, let's talk Samsung's TouchWiz or even more impressively, the entire Samsung Galaxy S3's extensive features) and have every opportunity for improving the OS. I'm pretty certain that even Microsoft's deal with Nokia on customization doesn't go THAT far--at least it certainly hasn't turned out that way. The list goes on.

Here's an important question Nokia or anybody that likes the company should answer:
Is there something Nokia is better at doing than any other cell phone manufacturer anymore in 2013? I'm genuinely, objectively curious.

Ultimately, I no longer care if they die out--there are other companies out there doing what I had wanted Nokia to do when Nokia was ahead of the game and they ignored us. It's just business and I'm voting with my dollars. It's a shame and many missed opportunities that Nokia didn't even bother to try to pay attention to opinions and campaign for our free-market votes. Let's see if they'll even try before they disappear or get swallowed up.

You made one error... NONE of the successes were ever a mobile OS (noticed you mentioned Windows 7, but not Windows Phone 7).

Speaking of historical:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-b...q8/s660/12+-+1

But with so many to choose from you couldn't find one to citation your points, and then criticized someone else for it? That's irony.

The irony continues. After complaining that they didn't provide any links, you replied to a post that included a link with a long, long rant that lacked a single reference to anything you rambled on about. I'll concede that you're not a troll, you're simply flaim-baiting.

Oh man! Do you remember that time when there was a genuine attempt here to try to recruit him to promote Lumia and how that horribly backfired and they stepped away carefully?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

When was this?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Dumbramos on drugs again:)

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

IIRC this was Quims proposal in the old Lets Talk Nokia Stock thread.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Oh, I remember that thread. That was a great thread indeed.

Nokia doing good today! The markets liked that Obama & Co manged to work toghter with the other side of the fence and push the crises a few months. I think 2013 will be an even better year at the stock market than 2012 if that is possible. great start!

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Read the links above. it is a huge assumption that paths chosen pre-Elop could have been corrected. As many know, Nokia was focused more on hardware than seamless software. As a CEO, trying to make quick turnaround, would you want to work with a team that had Harmattan on the table since 2008???? We dont know the human resources issues at NOKIA and how dysfunctional they were, but everything points to a HUGE dysfunction and inability to deliver what iOS and Android did for masses: a smooth and versatile experience. N8, N9 and N900 were all beta OSes that sucked for the masses. And as mentioned above, NOKIA was never a good software company. They were not then, they were not now. They could not produce well integrated user experiences, hence their own attempts died out.

So Elop chose to outsource software to a software company, MS. Made sense then, perhaps makes sense in the future, only time will tell. Blaming everything on Elop is highly myopic, and clearly the board knows this, hence he is still employed.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Harhar, new year same old sh*te. You guys never stop.... :D At least Dan's still around, that's good. And Gerbick. Keep it up; i don't want to be the only one imprisoned with the same insane Lubethingy.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

The board does not fire him because that would show even greater dysfunction and Nokia would all but collapse, not to mention they would need to pay his golden parachute.

I'm not going to suggest everything was OK at Nokia pre-Elop but you are kidding yourself if you think he didn't make things worse by declaring his only products dead before even having a device ready, then a while later customers (maybe even Nokia themselves) find out that WP7 itself was not ready either.

And while we are here arguing about whether Elop was right or wrong there is one thing you cannot deny: There will now be customers from all sides, Symbian, Maemo, Meego and even WP feeling severely burnt by Nokia right now. It's as if they were trying so hard to save themselves from the burning platform they left their customers to burn. It will be a real uphill struggle trying to win them back.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Companies eliminate CEOs on a whim, in a matter of hours if necessary. The fact that he is still there, tells you how deep the problem was at NOKIA. Much worse than fanboys trying to admit it.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

My mistake... It was the Brink of Failure thread http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...&postcount=175

The discussion actually goes on for several pages, albeit buried amongst the usual bull* that often results in threads being moved to Off Topic. ;)

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Actually the article you linked to said the Maemo team frequently had to come up with software optimisations because the hardware wasn't good enough.


Sure it told the story of various failed UIs before the development of the highly praised Swipe UI but it was probably those bad experiences that lead to QML. NOKIA's issues were design, politics and management, QML was probably the developers response. If there was to be yet another redesign of the UI QML would make it far easier for them to implement.

It seems Elop learned nothing from this sorry tale, NOKIA are now again stuck with an unloved UI and they have no way of revising it.


For argument's sake let's pretend that's true, why would you choose to replace Symbian/MeeGo with another OS that also 'sucked for the masses'? Windows Phone 7 had already proved about as appealing as a frozen 5h1t-on-a-stick hadn't it? It was already a proven failure in the market place, it could never be the solution to what you have portrayed as the problem.

If NOKIA were as great at hardware as you like to suggest the best thing for them to do would be to go for Android. People would still choose NOKIA because of their great hardware, right?

Qt/QML could be ported to Android for purposes of differentiation. Android is adaptable whereas Wndows Phone doesn't do differentiation.

And don't forget the all important 'ecosystem'? Wndows Phone 7 didn't have one to speak of but Android's was pretty good wasn't it?


It made sense to a Microsoft Trojan horse but it made no sense whatsoever to NOKIA. The market certainly appreciated that, NOKIA's share price suffered an immediate drop after the strategy was announced.


Not foreseeing the crash Windows Phone 7 would induce was truly myopic. There is no set of circumstances you can dream up where exclusively adopting Windows Phone 7 was the right answer for NOKIA.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Poor qgil, such a nice guy. I hope he is doing better wherever he went. He saw a positive in many of us...

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Of course it made sense to NOKIA. NOKIA lost the software war, they had to go with someone else, whether it was MS or Googl Trojan horse, it was a coin toss. Also, I have never seen any NOKIA devices in the US prior to WP on NOKIA. Now I do see people using them. So, yes it is better than Dinosaur Symbian and Meego.

On the other hand, I am enjoying L920 and iphone. Both are superb devices for the masses.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

On another note. Was in San Fran Haight district and walked into an unlocked cell phone store. Pureview 808 was there. Picked it up, and couldnt believe how bad Symbian is now that I have used iOS and WP. What an injustice to otherwise pretty device.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Look at the (entirely predictable) consequences. NOKIA have shrivelled to insignificance as a result of Elop opening his star port and allowing Ballmer to dock. It made no sense; the market knew it, the carriers knew it, the retailers knew it, hell even Elop knew it but he had an ulterior motive.


If NOKIA had lost the software 'war' what the hell was the outcome for Microsoft and their laughable little pop-gun? At least Google had got a really big bazooka.


Meanwhile they were totally dominating the rest of the planet - you know, where the overwhelming majority of smartphone buyers live. In Elop's desperate attempt to make NOKIA relevant to America he has surrendered the rest of the planet to Samsung.

To add insult to life-threatening injury Elop didn't even succeed in seducing America, Windows Phone is still an irrelevance even there too.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

I think you are missing the point with WP. The idea was to use both desktop and mobile devices to create a powerful ecosystem that will synergize.

I see no difference between google and Android. Both are evil corporate behemoths. So whether Nokia went Android or MS, makes no difference to me. I like the MS wedding as it provided Nokia an opportunity to start from the early build up. I am still long on Nokia, as I think that MS will gain some traction via a combination of ecosystems.

As I said above, both iOS and WP are great devices for the masses.

Now, with regards to your worldwide comment on Nokia. That was the problem. Nokia became a third world manufacturer and was comforted to providing crappy service and products in the third world. But the march of androids and iOS was inevitable and the sweep of Symbian and Meego out of the third world. That was the big Nokia problem: complacent to sell third rate service and products in the Third world and losing competitive battle in more savy markets. So you are wrong on that point too. Instead, Nokia should have strived to be competitive in USA and to learn how to treat their customers well.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Have to disagree here since there are now more mobile devices than desktops and that will never change back.

Desktop is an old way of thinking. Microsoft has been losing that battle for quite a while. Distributed computing, or the term "cloud", is where folks are truly going and it's been successful for iTunes - you don't need a Mac to update, purchase or have access to their media offerings - and also Amazon with their App, Music and Video Store.

Desktops are not necessary because people are migrating away from them. Most people are using smartphones. Ecosystems need to be dependent of desktops.

That's where Microsoft is going way wrong. Apple even has embraced that.

Anyway, I think you're missing the point and that's why WP isn't taking off either.