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maemo.org - Talk (https://talk.maemo.org/index.php)
-   General (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=7)
-   -   Discussing JollaOy strategy (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=93610)

pango 2014-09-01 08:13
Re: Discussing JollaOy strategy
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by endsormeans (Post 1437803)
I agree gerbick
The whole sitch from end to end is termed "fouling the nest" .
Turns me off Jolla as a consequence ...sadly.
I have no interest in supporting any individual(s) or their views who do such devastation, pollution or poisoning in any forum or community.
Don't shoot the messenger.

The point is: A more transparent Jolla would generate more positive engagement and less negative engagement.

pango 2014-09-01 08:19
Re: Discussing JollaOy strategy
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nodevel (Post 1437849)
Well, that's for you get for 'name two'. I forgot there's an option of avoiding the comparison even without using the word 'unlike' :)

What I am basically reading is "I will not compare to profitable companies" - because profit is not by which success is measured, right... If you wanted Jolla to be successful by greater transparency, like you're claiming (and I doubt it), then you wouldn't be avoiding comparisons to successful companies.

IMO you're basically throwing buzz words (transparency, openness) without any concrete ideas for improvement (not that they are buzz words per se, but now they are, without any concrete ideas), you refuse to provide any logical basis and evidence about why it should be better for Jolla, if it had more [buzz word] and you avoid any direct comparisons.

I'm not saying you are wrong, but you are either really bad at arguing your point of view, or you just too stubborn to listen to facts provided and to react to them.
Are you really suggesting there are no such companies in existence?

Are you saying Jolla has reached the optimum level of transparency vs. business secrecy and nobody could do any better?

Remember: Jolla is a small company. Think of the wider world of SMBs and consider this point.

I can go to detail, and to companies, but let's try to sort out the macro level first. How would you answer these questions?

pango 2014-09-01 08:25
Re: Discussing JollaOy strategy
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by juiceme (Post 1437844)
Again, just empty air blowing and no examples to be seen, with clear explanation how they'd be more open and what's the profitability like.



[damn me I already vowed to stay out of this silly arguing with brick walls but I just cannot help it...]
Are you, too, suggesting Jolla has struck a perfect balance between business secrecy and openness, and that they could do no better? That there are no companies in the world that do it better?

Like I said, we can start digging into specific SMB stories if we really must, but let's agree on the macro level first. Do you think it is possible to be more transparent while being profitable? Or do you think such companies probably don't exist?

I think helping their business would stem from less negativity in the community and thus more positive buzz around their products. I think keeping so many secrets and trying to control even the simplest messages too much has alienated some people and that could have been avoided with simply a little more brutal honesty.

Read jalyst's message and you get the point:

http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...1&postcount=29

gerbick 2014-09-01 08:43
Re: Discussing JollaOy strategy
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pango (Post 1437851)
Are you really suggesting there are no such companies in existence?
No. I've asked you directly for 2 companies and you've yet to deliver; deflect no longer about FOSS and whatnot, just answer the very direct question in a very direct manner please.

pango 2014-09-01 08:44
Re: Discussing JollaOy strategy
 
Here is an example of one area where Jolla's PR and reality don't meet in the eyes of some:

https://together.jolla.com/question/...as-truly-open/

These would be the kinds of things needing to be clarified through better communication and perhaps more brutally honest PR too.

When you have to start making excuses for Jolla, like people do in that thread on TJC - and indeed many do here on this thread, it starts to look quite iffy. Has the movement really come down to excuses.

Morpog 2014-09-01 08:44
Re: Discussing JollaOy strategy
 
Well, I see the outcome of the poll as a result for this discussion inside this community. A minority of less than 25% really see a need of improvement.

fk_lx 2014-09-01 08:51
Re: Discussing JollaOy strategy
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morpog (Post 1437858)
Well, I see the outcome of the poll as a result for this discussion inside this community. A minority of less than 25% really see a need of improvement.
"Nice" interpretation, you could work at some ministry of propaganda. I see around ~50% of people that voted in poll that want Jolla to be more transparent and ~50% of those, think they need to improve. If you don't count Jolla employees votes results are even worse for you.

Even if only 25% would vote "yes" (1 and 2) option then it should be considered seriously, but it's 50%.

juiceme 2014-09-01 08:51
Re: Discussing JollaOy strategy
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pango (Post 1437852)
Are you, too, suggesting Jolla has struck a perfect balance between business secrecy and openness, and that they could do no better? That there are no companies in the world that do it better?
How would I know? It's you that has argued that. And I still have not seen your examples.

I have experience only of large companies and I am working for one of those, a company that is not transparent in your sense even to employees working inside it.

nodevel 2014-09-01 08:52
Re: Discussing JollaOy strategy
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pango (Post 1437851)
Are you really suggesting there are no such companies in existence?

Are you saying Jolla has reached the optimum level of transparency vs. business secrecy and nobody could do any better?

Remember: Jolla is a small company. Think of the wider world of SMBs and consider this point.

I can go to detail, and to companies, but let's try to sort out the macro level first. How would you answer these questions?
Ah, the good ol' 'turn it around' strategy.

How would I know? I'm not advocating your point of view, so why should I try to find companies that support your case. But given that you have spent 27 pages of discussion without a single example of a company that is more open, which would definitely help your case, I'd say they're hard to find huh? :) You're turning to other people, like me, to find them for you, after all.



You also failed to provide evidence to support your hypothesis "more [buzz word] would help Jolla", while other people have provided examples that would reject such hypothesis on some significance level (like examples of media turning around unnessessarily provided info). Given you also had 27 pages to present it, don't blame me for calling it a bluff :)

gerbick 2014-09-01 08:56
Re: Discussing JollaOy strategy
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morpog (Post 1437858)
Well, I see the outcome of the poll as a result for this discussion inside this community. A minority of less than 25% really see a need of improvement.
I'd love to see this in an unofficial TMO poll.


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