Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

This is a complex topic and your oversimplification runs the risk of spreading FUD. We need more facts. I'm new to Android development, but over the next few months I'll probably be studying the ICS system level API's very closely. These are the kind of limits I like to push. If you have some more detailed information, great. Otherwise, your anecdotal evidence might not tell the whole story, and as I've already demonstrated to myself, there is some level of user space multi-tasking going on.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Wow! I haven't seen Baghdad Bob in ages! I almost kind of miss his old comedy routines! They were comedy, right? I dunno--I laughed at his shows anyway.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

But that also kind of proves the point, that "enforcing" policy, the way multitasking has been implemented in Android, is better.

We know programmers are lazy, and there is a vast forest of information and things and standards and good (tm) practices to remember when coding to some sophisticated system like for smart phone.

We have had problems also in Maemo, where developers "forget" to react to the situation when application goes background. Those kind of programs have ended up to the stable distribution though and have raised problems because of extra battery or RAM consumption.

As I wrote in the latter part of the post you quoted, Android style of guiding developers is enforcing one and overall is beneficial to the end user. Generally people are happier if phone is fast responsive and some lazy programmed applications do not run at all then in the background, than having applications which drain battery, RAM and other resources in the background for vain.

What it comes the mentioned (non-confirmed?) web-browser TAB:s reloading or PDF-viewer starting always from the page one when brought from background to the foreground in the Android system, there are obvious bugs in those programs - lazy or novice mobile programming again.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Oh, that is easy:
Since Android doesn't do proper multitasking, you as the app developer have to save state whenever I switch to another application, and restore it _quickly_ and _properly_ when I come back.
If I ever use your app on Android and don't get fooled into multitasking, I will come and beat the crap outta you! :D
So you better code for Maemo/MeeGo without all this silly save/restore state nonsense (ironically Nokia tried the same on the 770 with its limited RAM, but quickly got away from it).

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

What you're seeing as true multitasking in the Terminal is indeed true multitasking. Android allows to register background processes under certain circumstances. While your Terminal app gets suspended or killed, the shell itself runs in the background task.
Multitasking on Android is possible this way, but rather tedious and not fit for all cases.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I have a modest iOS development background, so I'm hoping I know what to expect here.

And that's the issue. In iOS, if you register a background process, that process can only run for a maximum of 10 minutes (WTF?). If ICS registered background processes don't have time limits, and it appears that they don't, that's a big difference.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

They won't multitask either. Metro apps on Windows 8, even on PCs, don't multitask (at least they don't in the Consumer Preview). You can run at maximum two apps side by side. All other Metro apps get suspended or killed.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

When we leave an software running on Android, it can be suspended or not, depending on how many other softwares are open, how they use RAM, etc.

So, try your shell multitasking test during other cases, with more open (and heavy) softwares, etc.

Maybe Terminal IDE implements a good service so it's saved from being suspended.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

When I say dumbed down OS is due to removed interesting features usually found on previous OS (mobile or not), even when there were a lot less hardware resources. For example, EPOC 32 OS, from 13 years ago, is a lot better in stability and multitasking than almost all current mobile OS.

If the majority of people buy some type of a car, or support a soccer team, etc, I am not obliged to do the same.

I have freedom, so I have chosen Nokia N810, N900 and N9, as almost all of us. I don't care if there are 10^12 iOS users and 10^6 Maemo/MeeGo users. I care about quality, not quantity. IMHO, the Maemo/MeeGo community is a lot better than Android, iOS and Symbian community.

I haven't used Symbian (Nokia 7650, Nokia 9290, N-Gage, Nokia 9500, N95, E71) because there were millions of other Symbian users. It was due to its features, including multitasking, and its roots, from EPOC 32.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Spreading FUD ???

Every Android user I have personally asked has experienced the same simple problems that I've cited, using Android 2.2, 2.3, 3.2 or 4.0. Problems to read a document or a site, to watch a Youtube movie, after switching to other softwares for some time and coming back.

These (lack of real) multitasking problems doesn't happen in 100% of the cases, let's say 10-20%. So, for a day of heavy use it can happen sometimes.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/...e_1487504c.jpg
Mission accomplished?!?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Yet... EPOC isn't actively being developed. That sucks, but needs to be different, and almost a decade+ later, those machines are still running. You and I both know that's no longer going to be the case with our present generation of OS/machines.

But support will be there if there's success. Case in point, Maemo.

That's the issue.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...mzGGvtVSV2dygg
Don't you worry guys, I know a way out.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

It is your opinion, it is not a fact.

Sorry, I prefer some "lazy" Maemo developers than the Android & iOS lack of real multitasking. I have many tools on my N810, N900 and N9 to look at CPU, RAM, network usage, so if some software has problems I uninstall it and report the problem to the community.

Since from my Psion Revo+ (EPOC 32 OS) days, I have the freedom to leave a calculation (programmed in OPL, Yacas, Python, C++, Maxima, etc) running for many minutes, even some hours. It is my problem if I decide to make observational cosmology calculation run in my N9 for 10 days.

I prefer the freedom of Maemo/MeeGo. I prefer the Maemo/MeeGo community. That is it.

Oh, yeah, the Android default web-browser has the reloading problems... The Adobe Acrobat PDF Reader (where all the developers are lazy ?) also shows the 1st page of the document after being suspended. I repeat : these problems happen not in 100% of cases, but in some 10-20% of cases when there are other (heavy) softwares open.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Count me in. This was a real chilling discovery.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

http://www.computerweekly.com/blogs/...er)%20Jobs.jpg
Follow me

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Steve
http://wwwcdn.channel5.com/assets/im...jpg?1323706094
I don't approve.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Yes, maximum of 10 minutes as background process ! Unless your software is in some 5 categories and depending on Apple approval.

Some good reading about (fake) multitasking of iOS & Android :

http://fupeg.blogspot.com.br/2010/06...titasking.html
http://speirs.org/blog/2012/1/2/misc...titasking.html

Ok, I liked the term : Fast App Switching. Android, iOS and WP7 deserve it...

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Oh, so not always.
I also have problems because the permissive multitasking with N900. I use FM-radio alot, almost daily. I like to surf on the web at the same time while riding a bus. Quite often when using a news portal, I tend to get 2 – 4 windows open and then FM-radio is swapped out. Also if I try to take a photo while listening radio, often FM-radio is swapped out and stops. Sometimes N900 becomes quite unresponsive. I'd rather have web-pages swapped out than FM-radio.

I've tried the same use case with Galaxy Mini quite much during the xmas break. No problem, although I had web pages open, FM-radio listening and camera. Radio did not get swapped out nor failed to play. The device keeps going being responsive.
Galaxy Mini does have 128 MB more RAM than N900 though, but that was not the reason it worked because I also opened much more web-windows.

We cannot expect a normal smart phone user to use top or similar programs to monitor what happens in the system to make sure it is fluent to use the device.

Android could have a developer-switch, when activated would turn into permissive multitasking mode with a warning. BUT, if this would lead to "lazy"-applications which would rely user to run it always in this developer permissive multitasking mode, it would be a bad thing and would harm the "ecosystem".

N900 was not and is not suitable for a "normal" smart phone user partly because the "real" permissive multitasking. Plain user would not accept the device going unresponsive so often, but would think the device is broken somehow. For us who know what is happening and why, it doesn't matter so much and we can try to avoid the situation by not starting too many processes.

If Nokia would sell Samsung Galaxy S3 type of hardware, which would have PureView-camera, and OS would be (community driven) Cyanogen Android with Qt-support included; I think most of the t.m.o users would be happy, and at least Nokia stock owners because that kind of device would sell alot, tens of millions.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

And that brings us back to the thread. That is the main issue, Nokia not being able to create kick *** hardware that sells tens of millions. They have PureView on two devices now, the 808 and one prototype Lumia something.

They could, but they didn't and they don't and there is no sign of them doing it in the future. Nokia has lost all common sense. They literally don't deserve to keep on going much longer.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Anyway it's been proven that Elop is a Microsoft mole; in the AGM he said that he had secretly been working on a Microsoft phone before they made the decision/announcement

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

http://www.microscope.co.uk/blogs/ne...20Features.JPG
Wait... what the f.... ???


Why would it need a developer switch? If you're going to be all 'I want it my way' anyway, then just load up a custom ROM and do it ANY WAY YOU WANT--even with kernel tweaks and all RIGHT from the UI. Like so...

http://pleco.org/nok/aokp-pref-2012-05-07.png

In case you wondered, yes--that's my own phone running AOKP (Android 4.0.4). Here's a launcher snapshot just for show:

http://pleco.org/nok/mydesktop-2012-05-07.png

It just seems like you're going to an ARJUOUS length to get to a place that's already been explored in Android and explored well and thoroughly a long time ago. Been there, done that.

You want ways to monitor the system? On top of all the battery, bandwidth and other graphs and monitors it already has built-in, you can also peek at tools like SystemPanel. Have a look at it. Good enough for ya?

http://lh3.ggpht.com/vyY5jmBL6tvrqUX...BY-Bso2R3LB_2A

Plenty of choices of such tools in the Android store. This just happens to be the one I like and use. I do not feel a lack of suitable and impressive applications nor do I feel as if I lack any ability to drop to a shell to bash around or ssh out or anything. Nokia might never be able to make up for so many setbacks for as many leaps and bounds of improvements as Android has made in very short time. It's a shame, considering how far ahead Nokia HAD been. "Potential Unrealized."

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Mmm. Since we're on the topic, I much prefer Maemos multitasking over Android. Android stops my activities where Maemo didn't. Android is not my friend.

I've been using the ZTE Blade for longer than I was using the N900, currently on ICS.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

My context was that Nokia continues to trip and blunder and it is highly unlikely to come back from it at this rate. And yet, the stock price continues to fall despite your preference. Pray, do tell us how you think Nokia still has a chance and how it might come back. I'm sure you can convince us with your stellar multitasking and your continuously operating activities!

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

not a blunder, its already own goal, XD

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

actually they may have a chance on tablet market when they release the first windows8 tablets. That way they may push nextgen wp too.

I dont like it but still its seems only way. I mean seriously the board cant be THAT stupid in strategy as it looks today?

or maybe they are....

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Did I ever imply anything other than Nokia lighting up their own platform? I have no love for Nokia, I just think they did a few very good things with Maemo. And other things weren't good at all.

I don't even own a N9 (but the prices are interesting nowadays), I own a Android phone. Also, I think it would have been much wiser of Nokia to embrace Android than not. Maybe the same product molds across operating systems... Might have mentioned that before ;) A slow and less dramatic adaption to Android (and Windows 7.0 too) at an earlier point would have saved them from the disastrous 2011, I really do believe. I don't know if that would have been the most advantageous strategy, but I do think the one they chose was possibly the least advantageous.

As I wrote elsewhere, I believe Nokia has chose a really stupid path. I believe they have passed the point of no return. I believe for them to continue to exist as an independent company, it's too late to change strategy and they must make Windows 7.5 work somehow till Windows 8 comes, and they must force Windows 8 to be something good and sellable.

I believe all this means that Nokia is ****ed beyond repair unless they whip a dead Microsoft horse back into the race. And I don't see how they could possibly manage that without being Microsoft, when Microsoft hasn't managed at all while being them.

I would much have preferred to have an OS that didn't toss out programs while I was using them, but that's an entirely different discussion. I still dream of an Intel-inside i386-compatible phone running an OS with as many services as I want. With decent multicore usage, and some resources reserved for prioritized instant phone usage. This is a dream, not a hope, but at least Maemo had elements worth dreaming of.

Android is a tad behind on those things. And way ahead in most other things.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I suspect that for the same reason that people stayed far away from Windows on the phone, they will also stay far, far away from Windows on a tablet: Nobody WANTS Windows. People have TOLERATED Windows on the desktop at the suffrage of the games and software they wanted or needed. This isn't the case with phones or tablets anymore. Microsoft is far, far behind in tablets despite trying to deliver a tablet to market for well over a decade and failing miserably every time. Why should this any different? Because they made a crippled version for tablets? Because they're putting out a trailing edge contender for specs? Because the platform is just rich with the software people want and need? I truly suspect Nokia has no chance--just like all the other Windows mobile platform has turned into so much garbage for the other manufacturers who've since abandoned the Windows platform. Nokia is looking more and more likely to stand alone on this burnt-out platform.


I can agree with some and disagree with some of what you've said. Ultimately, though, behind or ahead, the stock is still diving despite what you or I wanted out of Nokia. Nokia preferred to ignore us, the customers with the money, and has suffered the consequences--as it should.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I think, that they've ignored more than mere customers to get where they are today :B

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

You should know that :
- Nokia N900 has only 256 MB of RAM and Maemo 5 is a full Linux distribution;
- Nokia N900 GUI can become more responsive with many tweaks available by the community (swappolube, etc), kernel-power with overclocking, etc;
- web pages open in Maemo 5 are full desktop web pages, not mobile versions, so there are web sites that take a lot of RAM;
- FM-Radio is a extras repository software, if it is unstable (I don't know, I don't use FM radio on my N900) or have problems, don't use it and/or report the problem to the community;
- Nokia N900 & Maemo 5 OS is a mobile computer, like a netbook using Linux, so if there are many heavy softwares open, then the OS can become slow. It is up to the user decide which softwares should remain open, for how much time, etc;
- with freedom comes responsibility.

So what ? The cited softwares are possible well implemented in Android. The fast app switching of Android takes your freedom to decide when to close the softwares, so you have less work, less responsibility, it is easier for many users.

top, htop, conky, etc, can be run after the user suspects some problem, i.e, detects the N900 is slow, the battery doesn't last, etc.

Nokia N900 & Maemo 5 OS is a mobile computer IMHO, so I expect the same user behaviour when using a netbook with Linux. The netbook user has the freedom to run everything, but it should know, for example, that OpenOffice will take 10-20 s to open, that Thunderbird, Firefox and OpenOffice open at the same time = lag, etc.

There are some N900 users who are normal users. They barely install softwares, they don't tweak Maemo 5, etc. And they are satisfied due to some unique features of Maemo 5 OS and/or Nokia N900 : nice qwerty keyboard, almost full web desktop browsing experience, etc.

But I agree that the typical N900 user tweaks it, install a lot of community softwares, etc.

I am posting in this topic just to defeat some general comments that appear sometimes :
- iOS & Android are Linux : no, they are not Linux (but have some Unix/Linux pieces);
- iOS & Android & WP7 have multitasking : no, they do not have multitasking as it is the OS that decides when to close the softwares. They have fast app switching or another funny description.

Anyway, IMHO, the best mobile OS and celular phone for each user depends on each needs and desire. For some users, a Nokia Asha 303 with Series 40v6 is a lot better than an Nokia N9, iPhone 4S, Galaxy S2, for example.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Wait a minute.
Now you are talking about paging/swapping.
That's a different topic than multitasking. In this case the
N900 would need more memory. It is not a problem of
multitasking. FM-Radio should not stop if it is swapped,
but I can imagine that there are many applications that do not
handle swapping and real time responsiveness.

Swapspace and swapping is something that you have on all those normal PCs and even there you cannot select, which applications are swapped out (if there are "swap-selectors" this would be new to me. Otoh some interesting new feature for swapping a la
"Swap that silly word document before you swap firefox" ;-) ).

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Your intent might have been to "defeat", but you appear to have technically flawed dismissives and appallingly misconceived explanations with no basis or explanation for them. At the very least, can you explain why you think the way you do?

- They are Linux in as much as Debian, Red Hat, Slackware or any distribution of Linux is a Linux. They ALL use the Linux kernel as the basis for their operating system and then lay a set of executable code to support the operation of said kernel (i.e. GNU commands on top of Linux, thusly GNU/Linux). If you install Debian or Ubuntu on Android or on Maemo or MeeGo, etc., you're now running a GNU/Linux distribution. Android's code sitting on top of Linux isn't Linux, but neither is Debian's code itself or Red Hat's code itself, for that matter. They each depend on obtaining the Linux kernel in order to run on top of.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the purpose of 'cooperative multitasking' that the OPERATING SYSTEM decides when to halt and execute running software in a fast "app switching or another funny description" method? The other alternative would be "preemptive multitasking", which is where the APPLICATION decides when to allow another application to be able to have a slice of time and the operating system isn't deciding when to halt and execute running software. My impression is that each of these systems employs some mixture of BOTH of these multitasking principles. In the case of Android, at least, I know you can use BOTH methods and the author can employ either method on a per-thread level.

So, near as I can tell, EACH of the listed operating systems you mentioned have multitasking, whether it wounds your pride or otherwise bothers you. The one thing they may perform differently is memory, state and thread management that differs between them--and most of the time they're optimized for far more efficient power savings and battery management than you're used to seeing on a laptop or desktop computer where power management has always been managed badly.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I repeat your own words to your comments above :
"but you appear to have technically flawed dismissives and appallingly misconceived explanations with no basis or explanation for them."

I think the Maemo.org debates are useful to everybody learn more what we are using, etc :
- when I wrote :
I should write "Linux distribution" as Android use a (forked) Linux kernel, with the recent Linux 3.3 now including Android contribution to the kernel;
- Google denies that Android is a Linux distribution :
* "In fact, during a presentation at the Google IO conference, Google engineer Patrick Brady stated unambiguously that Android is not Linux";
http://static.arstechnica.com/androi..._not_linux.png
- the Open Invention Network defintion of Linux system includes more than a thousand packages;

From a programmer's point of view, Linux is approx. the kernel + glibc + X11 window system + libreadline + many other libraries. Without these items, you cannot compile the large majority of Linux softwares from (C/C++) source code. The same source code, apart from dependencies differences, can be compiled on Debian, Fedora, Maemo, etc. Obviously only a smaller subset of softwares can be useful on Maemo due to the need of "hildonizing" the GTK/Qt GUI of the softwares. Take Abiword, Gnumeric, etc, they are available for Maemo, not for Android.

Android has a Linux kernel (forket or not), but :
- no X11 Window manager;
- no glibc compatible (it is bionic, a striped down glibc which is incompatible);
- neither many other Linux distribution components;
so in the end the majority of Linux softwares cannot be compiled to a "vanilla" Android.
I say "vanilla" because there are Android community (so non onfficial) ports of glibc, etc, but you have to root Android, manually install the packages, etc.

I have spent a lot of money in a Asus Transformer TF-101 16GB + Asus Eee Dock. Just to experiment a good Android tablet, the limits of Android, how to develop for it (in Python SL4A), Qt softwares, etc. Even with "Terminal IDE" installed (which includes many Linux softwares like bash, nano, htop, ssh, etc), Android is not a Linux distribution IMHO : no X11, no compatible glibc, no real multitasking, etc. Even IPython is not available due to lack of libreadline...

Conclusion : Android is a Linux based OS but it is not a Linux distribution. Maemo 4 & 5, MeeGo 1.2 Harmattan, Tizen, etc, are Linux distributions because they have Linux kernel, X11, glibc, gcc, etc. IMHO. But everyone have the freedom to have a different opinion.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

It's incredible how much irrelevant evidence you can present while at the same time be completely wrong by premise.

First off, and this needs to be immediately put out there, since when is X11 related to Linux in any way? Plenty of Linux servers don't have X11 at all. Ubuntu Server doesn't even install it by default and X11 doesn't even touch the kernel beyond talking to the frame buffer drivers like any non-X11 graphical app might. A graphical UI manager like X11 is a whole other layer above the kernel and may or may not necessarily be a part of the operating system.

Secondly, I did point out that Android itself isn't Linux. I also pointed out, rightfully, that Linux distributions (i.e. Debian, Red Hat, Maemo, etc.) aren't Linux either. They are built on top of Linux and thusly labeled as 'Linux distributions'. They are not, themselves, Linux. Android might not be a Linux distribution, but it IS a Linux-based OS in as much as Maemo and MeeGo are. You STILL need to add debian to Android as well as Maemo/MeeGo to get what you would consider a proper GNU/Linux experience.

By the by, X11 is working in Android now:
http://my20percent.wordpress.com/201...roid-x-server/

Does that help blur the lines a little for you? :)

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Hey fatsoo, you are still banging on Nokia. What have they done to you to spew so much gloating hate.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

But the Linux server installations use a distribution where the X Windows Manager is available to install. It is your choice. Not on Android.

Linux distribution = Linux kernel + X windows manager + many (GNU) libraries and softwares. Many sources use this definition.

And Linux kernel <> Linux distribution.

Yeah, I was aware of this experimental and limited X Windows (from the community) some months ago.

Android is very interesting compared to say, Symbian, due to its Linux origins. But it lacks many Linux features from Maemo/MeeGo.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

nokia will not succeed even with full linux distro... what is taking nokia down is they are not inovative as before... worst of marketing strategy where apple have done very well... consumer.. i mean everage people dont want to know or think about multitasking.. the first "smartphone" nokia 7610 i own in the old days cannot even compare with todays smartphones but it was a phenomanon in my places.. for whats? just a 1.3 megapixel camera!!! today people (everage people) want a dual core/quad core processor where nokia lacks. they dont want to know or just dont want to know wether the os is ios,android,maemo or meego. why everage people seems to love apple very much? not because the ios is great. is because the phone is advertising on tv. on magazines, news paper etc very often than other smartphones. if nokia wants to gain back their position they must act like they are a winner. announce the next phone with dual core or even quad core processor. they have to.. if they dont want they must create another type of game... not the so call "ecosystem" game which apple and android strictly a winner.. m$ will never gets into mobile industry like the pc... where consumer (average people) are not told about other os like linux... pc are include with windows as a package at my places.... and win7 stater is ******** . and its the cheapest one!!!! what the ****!! linux is free..

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

You should refresh your memory about cooperative and preemptive multitasking. Google will help you on that :-). The above description pains my wanna-be geek soul.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Nokia will not succeed with Win 8 tablets because nobody wants Windows on their tablets. All Window 7 tablets produced have failed so far. MS wanting to leverage their dominance in PC OS to tablets is not possible when consumers have choices. Nobody wants a bloated, buggy, malware and virus infested proprietary OS produced by a greedy monopolistic anti-competitive company on their tablets.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

So, Ubuntu server isn't a Linux distribution until you decide to install X11? Or does it just need to be available? Does that mean Android is now a Linux distribution thanks to that X11 project being AVAILABLE for Android? You seem to be playing some odd game of semantics that doesn't really seem to fit a solid explanation or definition.

I was also aware of Maemo/MeeGo's limited features as well--it still seems to need the further installation of Debian and libraries to still satisfy much of your definition of a Linux operating system.

Maemo/MeeGo is very interesting compared to say, Windows Phone, due to its Linux origins. But it lacks many, many MORE Linux features from Android. (What version of the Linux kernel are you up to on Maemo/MeeGo, now?)

Seeing as how I'm an American, I can understand your assumption that I'm probably fat--but isn't that coming from you very much like the much bigger, fatter pot calling the kettle black? :) Last time I checked, this IS the Nokia stock thread, right? You have something positive to add to this discussion about Nokia's fortunes? Please contribute! I'm sure we all look forward to hearing some more of your incredibly hilarious and optimistic outlook for Nokia's future.

Please, go on...
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-pHUqSWjuvc...0/daily460.jpg

It clearly didn't pain you enough to humor my request to please correct me if I was wrong. Go ahead and explain your understanding of cooperative versus preemptive in the context of operating systems controls.