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-   Jolla1 & TOH (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=56)
-   -   Jolla User Experience Thread (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91875)

tissot 2013-12-06 13:56
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabouik (Post 1393059)
What I'd lke is to use side swipes in the multitask view to show more than 9 apps. Just like the N9 has a vertical scroll in this view, the Jolla could have multiple pages horizontally arranged (with the Sailfish dots on top to indicate which page is being shown).

The maximum of 9 covers shown is an old concern about Sailfish and Jolla sailors have often argued that 9 is most often more than necessary, that they usually use less than that. They also added that anyway it's easy to see from icons which apps are open but not shown as covers (well, I'd like to see a screenshot of that by the way to see how the icon is altered to show an app is open but not previewed in a cover). Yet, the large majority of the videos we see since November 27th show Jollas with 9 covers shown. It means that people do use 9 apps simultaneously (or more), or at least they want to keep them open. To be honest I'm not surprised at all because I often have in between 8 and 11 apps open on my N9 despite its more limited hardware.
I'm fine with the 9 limit at the moment as it is most likely a bit appleish decision from Jolla to introduce arbitrary limitation for a smooth and similar experience to all.
Jolla not being Apple, they could add option to enable extra page for multitasking. Making also sure that people realize you have one windows already full of active tasks going enabling the option.

Mikkosssss 2013-12-06 14:01
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
You can have more than 9 apps running but you can only see them when you long press.
Not sure if you can move them around so things that you use now are on top.

w00t 2013-12-06 14:03
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikkosssss (Post 1393122)
Not sure if you can move them around so things that you use now are on top.
No. We considered it, but once we added move-most-recent-to-top-left, it didn't make as much sense.

bockersjv 2013-12-06 14:10
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDVsx (Post 1393119)
What kind of email account are you using IMAP/POP/exchange ?

Emails deleted from inbox are moved to trash folder, if you want to permanently delete them remove them from trash folder.
They go nowhere, just stay sulking in my inbox I am using pop in and smtp out. They can be deleted one by one, although the odd one takes two attempts,

bockersjv 2013-12-06 14:16
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Ok does anyone understand the email folder screen?

I have 4 mails in my inbox on one of my accounts. No mails (read or unread) in any other folder. But the screen shows 2 for each of the other folders (outbox, deleted, sent and drafts)

Another account I have 6 read in my inbox but the folder screen shows none :confused:

nodevel 2013-12-06 14:19
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by w00t (Post 1393123)
No. We considered it, but once we added move-most-recent-to-top-left, it didn't make as much sense.
It would be nice if this was customizable.

'move-most-recent-to-top-left' was the main drawback of N9's multitasking for the short time I'd used it. So confusing - I had to double check every time I was switching apps.

Kabouik 2013-12-06 14:48
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikkosssss (Post 1393122)
You can have more than 9 apps running but you can only see them when you long press.
Not sure if you can move them around so things that you use now are on top.
As said in my message in previous page, I'm curious to see how it looks. Could anyone take a picture of it? And do applications that are open but not shown in covers have an altered icon in the main menu?

Still, my wish for next christmas is to have multiple pages on the multitask view, switchable by side swipes instead of side swipes to open Ambiance. :o For 2013 christmas, just gimme mah Jolla. :o

w00t, thanks for the answer on moving covers. That is already what I read on IRC from your colleagues. I agree that an option in the future of Sailfish would be a nice feature, if not too time consumng. It can be nice to arrange covers the way you want if you really intend to use the multitask view and interact with covers. Move most recent to top left is good too, but most likely useful if you are going to maximize all applications to interact with them. If I want to track several things simultaneously, then it's better to arrange the layout the way I want and decide that it should persist regardless of whether I maximize an application sometimes.

Can somebody report if it's possible to use applications in different instances, maybe from a terminal command? If I want to have several instances of the browser, or sms, or documents, is it possible?

mikelima 2013-12-06 14:50
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
I never "noticed" the move-most-recent-to-top-left behavior of the application switcher...
But then, probably it is something i subconsciously expected. After all, it resembles how alt+tab works on the desktop.

Drekkie 2013-12-06 15:11
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Can anyone confirm if the Audio player supports gapless playback? Any audible gaps between track transitions that are meant to run together? I believe speculation was that gapless wouldn't be there based on the libraries used, but just curious.

Hoping Quasar MX comes to Jolla eventually.

VDVsx 2013-12-06 15:18
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bockersjv (Post 1393126)
They go nowhere, just stay sulking in my inbox I am using pop in and smtp out. They can be deleted one by one, although the odd one takes two attempts,
Pulley menu -> Select emails -> select the emails you want to delete -> press trash can icon on the left bottom corner.

I'll take a look to POP delete issue, is that for any big email provider or your own server ?

VDVsx 2013-12-06 15:23
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bockersjv (Post 1393129)
Ok does anyone understand the email folder screen?

I have 4 mails in my inbox on one of my accounts. No mails (read or unread) in any other folder. But the screen shows 2 for each of the other folders (outbox, deleted, sent and drafts)
If that's a POP account those are local emails, POP only has inbox folder by default, but if you are seeing a count for those folders that's a bug since count is only shown for unread emails, can you please explain better ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bockersjv (Post 1393129)
Another account I have 6 read in my inbox but the folder screen shows none :confused:
Are they all read ?

POP is very broken protocol IMO, I wouldn't use is if there's an alternative, just my personal opinion :)

Manatus 2013-12-06 15:39
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shmerl (Post 1392730)
Can anyone please verify whether idle XMPP usage (just being on-line) drains battery excessively or not? Preferably, use any server besides Google's. For a test it's enough to keep the status on-line all the time and see see how it affects the battery life.

Also, does Jitsi for Android work for XMPP/Jingle video/audio calls?
Charged and rebooted the phone last evening. After some two hours from that I switched WLAN on and XMPP online. 3gdata was still on and idling.

The server is OpenFire.

XMPP with WLAN. In 10 hours idle use battery dropped from 93% to 62%. This gives 3 percent drop per hour.

I switched to 3gdata battery at 39%. From that on after next six hours the battery showed 20%. This gives approximately same figure as on WLAN, eg. ~3% per hour, if the battery statistics are correct.

I think it is quite safe to say that plain XMPP in good radio conditions does not use too much power. :)

I tried Jitsi Android build 163 (maybe a month old nightly), and while I was able to call people inside the same network, when they answered the client simply hung up the call. I recall that this same thing happened earlier with Nexus 7 with the same version of Jitsi. So I'll have to test it later again with the latest build and both devices...

MSameer 2013-12-06 15:40
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drekkie (Post 1393140)
Can anyone confirm if the Audio player supports gapless playback? Any audible gaps between track transitions that are meant to run together? I believe speculation was that gapless wouldn't be there based on the libraries used, but just curious.

Hoping Quasar MX comes to Jolla eventually.
Unfortunately gapless playback is not supported. It's in the backlog though :)

bockersjv 2013-12-06 16:00
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDVsx (Post 1393142)
Pulley menu -> Select emails -> select the emails you want to delete -> press trash can icon on the left bottom corner.

I'll take a look to POP delete issue, is that for any big email provider or your own server ?
My provider is a reasonable sized email provider.
The multi select and delete does not work.
I pull donw and chose se;lect emails. I then select them, then press the delete button at the bottom. The countdown bars starts at the top of the page and completes but the mail is still there. They will go if deleted one by one.

aegis 2013-12-06 16:09
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philippe (Post 1392883)

You could still try this : http://www.android.com/filetransfer/

I know it says android file transfer, but it actually is an mtp app as Android these days has dropped mass-storage too. But I have been told the latest OS X update broke it. (I cannot tested it since I do not run/have broken-by-design software/hardware)

Otoh you could run an ftp/http server on the device and access things like that. At least http and ftp is something that Apple will not break.
I don't think that's ever ran particularly well on the Mac. It's always been an awful application regardless of which version of OSX I've tried it.

Apple doesn't support MTP as a protocol natively AFAIK - it's entirely Google's fault.

The other issue for Mac users is that I have to format my 64GB SD card as exFAT to use all the space but Jolla don't support exFAT. They do support EXT4 though but then the Mac doesn't support EXT4. Hmm.

bockersjv 2013-12-06 16:11
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDVsx (Post 1393144)
If that's a POP account those are local emails, POP only has inbox folder by default, but if you are seeing a count for those folders that's a bug since count is only shown for unread emails, can you please explain better ?
Ok, I'll try. I have three email accounts
Currently the first email screen shows a total of 15 unread and they appear below the accounts summary. This is correct and unread items (2 in that email account and 6 across all 3 accounts))don't affect the count. That's fine

Trying to delete and on further investigation the multiple delete is an issue when 4 or more are selected.


Quote:
Originally Posted by VDVsx (Post 1393144)
Are they all read ?

POP is very broken protocol IMO, I wouldn't use is if there's an alternative, just my personal opinion :)
They are not all read, there is a mix. But that does not seem to be part of the issue.

Now to the counts. That is stubonly sticking at 2 for all folders and as you say is a bug.

shmerl 2013-12-06 16:17
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manatus (Post 1393145)
I think it is quite safe to say that plain XMPP in good radio conditions does not use too much power. :)
I didn't really follow this lately, but in the past Google and FB implemented their own optimizations to reduce the verbosity of the XMPP which always affected the battery badly:

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=38943
http://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/sum...ry/000528.html

Plus there is this XEP: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0273.html
Which defines a way to control what to filter:

Quote:
A mobile client might want to receive messages but not presence notifications, since the latter are quite "chatty" and can run down the battery.
So, I wonder how any of this caught up in servers and clients (Telepathy)? All this was out for quite some time already.

Rugoz 2013-12-06 16:54
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
I'm a bit worried about the negative initial reactions to the UI. More than anything else a new OS should make a good first impression. Its something WP failed at IMO.

ggabriel 2013-12-06 16:58
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rugoz (Post 1393166)
I'm a bit worried about the negative initial reactions to the UI.
Not sure what you are talking about... the more I see it, the more I want it. The fact that some people find it negative doesn't mean that everybody will. The same happened with iOS and happens constantly with Android (e.g., kitkat is quite rubbish at the status screen that you get from swipping top->bottom, and yet... >80% market).

VDVsx 2013-12-06 17:36
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bockersjv (Post 1393150)
My provider is a reasonable sized email provider.
And it doesn't offer IMAP ? :D

Is it possible to get an account there ?

benny1967 2013-12-06 17:56
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
About this issue with deleting mails:

I don't yet have a Jolla phone, so my question might not make sense at all, but: Usually with POP3 accounts there's settings like "leave messages on server yes/no" and "deleting mails will also delete them from server".

Are there such settings on the jolla phone? If so, what are yours? If no, what is the default jolla uses?

Rugoz 2013-12-06 18:06
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Quote:
Not sure what you are talking about...
Well I meant the first impressions at engadget and theverge, but in the meantime I've also read very positive stuff, like the more extensive review at golem.de.

MSameer 2013-12-06 18:10
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by att (Post 1392798)
The backups seem to be in .vault directory in nemo user's home directory. It seems to be some kind of Git based solution (similar to git-annex).
I don't work on backup but I got this info from a colleague:

.vault is basically a git repos and also there is _blobs_ dir inside git storage dir. It's not exactly git annex but it's near ;)
There are no tools yet to sync it remotely, options are to use tar, or rsync, or git+rsync

ggabriel 2013-12-06 18:11
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rugoz (Post 1393179)
Well I meant the first impressions at engadget and theverge, but in the meantime I've also read very positive stuff, like the more extensive review at golem.de.
Exactly my point. You also have to read between the lines... engadget said that "the Samsung Galasy S2 has our favourite camera" back in the day. I mean, come on. The N8 was still farily usable then and it has a camera that is 10 times better. They may suffer from fanboyism sometimes, and money can do incredible things too ;-)

droll 2013-12-06 18:33
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
so based on the responses to android compatibility, i take it you cannot leave whatsapp running in the background to get notifications? meaning we need a native whatsapp app. yes?

javiermon 2013-12-06 19:03
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Hi

A couple of apps questions:
- Can you merge contacts like in n9?
- Can you select/copy/paste text in the email app?
- In n9, the music app had trouble when you had 2 albums with same name but different artist (it will pick one cover for both). Is this happening?
- scrobbler (last.fm) support in the music app? there's maemo-scrobbler for n900/n9 maybe that can be ported.

Thanks,

bockersjv 2013-12-06 20:12
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by javiermon (Post 1393205)
Hi

A couple of apps questions:
- Can you merge contacts like in n9?
Yes, very similar and works better
Quote:
Originally Posted by javiermon (Post 1393205)
- Can you select/copy/paste text in the email app?
Not yet, but think it may come. Copy paste of text in otherapp is quite good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by javiermon (Post 1393205)
- In n9, the music app had trouble when you had 2 albums with same name but different artist (it will pick one cover for both). Is this happening?
Music app is a mess, see my Media app post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by javiermon (Post 1393205)
-
- scrobbler (last.fm) support in the music app? there's maemo-scrobbler for n900/n9 maybe that can be ported.

Thanks,
Can't help with the rest

bockersjv 2013-12-06 20:13
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by benny1967 (Post 1393175)
About this issue with deleting mails:

I don't yet have a Jolla phone, so my question might not make sense at all, but: Usually with POP3 accounts there's settings like "leave messages on server yes/no" and "deleting mails will also delete them from server".

Are there such settings on the jolla phone? If so, what are yours? If no, what is the default jolla uses?
No there is not setting so the mails stay there

MSameer 2013-12-06 20:43
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bockersjv (Post 1392487)
The Music App, my view after one week
The bad

In all songs view there are MP4 videos showing in the list! These do not show in the gallery section, in fact the Media and Gallery terms are misleading. I would expect video to be in media not gallery. At present we have the worst of both worlds

To make matters worse any video media will not play in the media app. This means that in “shuffle all” mode the music will stop.
I am glad you have informed care@. This always helps and it makes your voice heard.

Could you please share one of those videos? It does seem that tere might be something wrong with the media indexer within tracker.

att 2013-12-06 21:03
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by javiermon (Post 1393205)
- Can you select/copy/paste text in the email app?
Only in reply/new email mode.

bockersjv 2013-12-06 21:05
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSameer (Post 1393223)
I am glad you have informed care@. This always helps and it makes your voice heard.

Could you please share one of those videos? It does seem that tere might be something wrong with the media indexer within tracker.
avi, mpg, wmv, asf, mpeg and mov. None of which play. In fact I struggle to find anything that will play. The trouble is they clog up the media app too.

In fact the media/gallery concept is broken. Video is media so why is it in the gallery and it goes on.

Why not just music and video, that's quite clear?

Dave999 2013-12-06 21:34
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Ouch, that's not good. There goes my Audio books :(

Only mp3 MP3 works, right? Ogg?

MSameer 2013-12-06 21:39
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bockersjv (Post 1393228)
avi, mpg, wmv, asf, mpeg and mov. None of which play. In fact I struggle to find anything that will play. The trouble is they clog up the media app too.
Could you please share one video that show up only in media player and not in gallery?

avi, mpg, wmv, asf, mpeg, mov are container formats. They don't describe the actual media.

I'd still appreciate getting my hands on 1 of those files to see what is wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bockersjv (Post 1393228)
In fact the media/gallery concept is broken. Video is media so why is it in the gallery and it goes on.

Why not just music and video, that's quite clear?
I cannot comment on that without taking off my jolla hat so I'd rater refrain :)

You have 2 issues apart from the concept itself and the ui glitches:
1) video files showing up in media player and not gallery
2) those video files interrupt the playback and lead to playback stopping.

I assume that if issue 1 gets fixed then your life will be easier. Am I correct?

MSameer 2013-12-06 21:41
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1393234)
Ouch, that's not good. There goes my Audio books :(

Only mp3 MP3 works, right? Ogg?
Ogg works (vorbis for audio, theora for video). Flac too

tissot 2013-12-06 21:42
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bockersjv (Post 1393228)
avi, mpg, wmv, asf, mpeg and mov. None of which play. In fact I struggle to find anything that will play. The trouble is they clog up the media app too.

In fact the media/gallery concept is broken. Video is media so why is it in the gallery and it goes on.

Why not just music and video, that's quite clear?
Different styles of media being bundled under one category irritates me. Not really, but kind of similar to N900 throwing your music album art under pictures.

Hopefully music player usability will be up there in actual use with the UI and reading meta data.

EDIT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSameer (Post 1393238)
Ogg works (vorbis for audio, theora for video). Flac too
Flac working is great news! I have my music library in MP3 and flac. It's nice to be able to use flac on mobile after 3 years of only MP3.

biatch0 2013-12-06 21:47
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
The gapless playback thing is a little bit of a downer though :(

bockersjv 2013-12-06 22:31
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Some examples that don't play
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/67319345/pigeon.avi
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...20-%201985.wmv

BTW album art get in the way in pictures too. Takes a while to delete without scroll bars too.

xanderx 2013-12-06 22:33
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by droll (Post 1393195)
so based on the responses to android compatibility, i take it you cannot leave whatsapp running in the background to get notifications? meaning we need a native whatsapp app. yes?
No! We don't need any whatsapp on Jolla phone.

Dave999 2013-12-06 22:36
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by xanderx (Post 1393251)
No! We don't need any whatsapp on Jolla phone.
You mean you and I don't need it! But that not goes for everyone. Some might like it.

nodevel 2013-12-06 22:42
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bockersjv (Post 1393250)
BTW album art get in the way in pictures too. Takes a while to delete without scroll bars too.
I wouldn't blame Jolla for this - how is it supposed to tell the difference between family photo and album art (other than the folder)...?

I got used to naming all my album art pictures like '.cover.png' (always starting with the dot). Now the question is - does the Jolla music player recognize such pictures as album art?

For example in Clementine, you can set which names it should treat as album covers.


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