maemo.org - Talk - Why aGPS in N810, iPhone ?

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- - Why aGPS in N810, iPhone ? (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=23353)

Re: Why aGPS in N810, iPhone ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TA-t3 (Post 220766)

And it's not "AGPS vs. Sirf Star III". It's "TI chipset vs. <insert any other chipset here>". AGPS can (and should, if possible) be used with _any_ chipset.

> The sentence makes no sense. AGPS is not 'old solution'.

Completely wrong.
AGPS by Motorola A1000 was introduced exactly for the reason
gps chip was not Sirf III.
What you call instant lock/fix is another type of A2GPS
and I say nothing against Sirf III GPS + network fix assistance.

But the implemented is old (non- Sirf III GPS chip) + network fix assistance.
Exactly the old solution. A1GPS.

It's not even a crutch. The way the GPS system works there is _no way_ to get instant lock (particularly from cold start) without using assisted GPS. It's _always_ useful to have AGPS, or any system that does the same (=>pre-loading data that one would otherwise have to wait for).

Who said otherwise.
A2GPS is ok.
A1GPS is not a good solution (for definitions see above).

> $10 is in this context an enormous amount of money.

Mayby yes mayby not.
I got $100 car navigation devicer as touch screen + maps + routing + Sirf III chip included.

So I don't see extra $20 for full GPS in N810, iPhone makes any difference for a knowing buyer.

"
Device producers are always trying to shave off a cent here, a cent there, if they can, because it all adds up to the bottom line. In any case, nobody in this thread will know the authoritative answer to the choices, there's just a good guess that the cost, plus the power (battery) requirements are both lower for the TI chipset. But we're not Nokia.
"
ok, ok, ok
for the same reason I decided not to buy any model of iPhone without full Sirf III gps navigation.

"
It's probably not much use to keep replying though.. so I won't bother after this one.

"

No more poetry pls.
You don't have to write or reply .

So what works as your explanation for non-Sirf III gps navigation in
iPhone, N810 is exactly contrary and in oposition to business strategy by manufacturers of $100 full Sirf III car navigation devices.
And I can assure you, the same units were offered on a market only 1 year ago at $200.
So I can expect to buy the alike units at $50 in 2009 or 2010 , still Sirf III chip insided.

darius

Re: Why aGPS in N810, iPhone ?

Quote:

I have offered gps solutions for iPhone/Apple (Skyhook)
better, faster, more efficient algorithms for AGPS .

I'm interested in that, do you have any papers published?

Quote:

size is not an issue - what is a size of aGPS chip in N810, iPhone ?
have you done size comparison ?

No, though you obviously have, what are the relative sizes of the Ti 5300 (iirc) chipset vs any one of the Sirf Star III chipsets (even one of the ones which supports AGPS)?

Quote:

price is not an issue - Sirf III chip $10 a piece (wholesale price much lower)

<snip>

battery life is not an issue - you can still offer 2 models , one with full GPS and one aGPSed.

By the same token, you have presumably done research on the price and power consumption of the Ti chipset vs one of the Sirf Star III chipsets. I'm certainly interested to see this data.

Quote:

Think twice.
aGPS was offered for non-gps enabled iPhone by Skyhook
as add-on, not mainstream gps solution.
The idea was great and it worked as it worked.

We've obviously got mixed up between what Skyhook call AGPS (presumably done from a db of cell towers or wifi access points?) and what most people accept is AGPS - namely you need a GPS chipset, one which can at least accept almanac/ephemeris data from an outside source.

Quote:

Today Apple released gps enabled iPhone and still not full GPS (Sirf III).

The Sirf Star III is not the only GPS out three, it may not be the one you'd like, but as long as it has a working GPS chipset, your statement is misleading.

Quote:

None of the above listed issues by you is valid.

As I said above, please show us your comparitive studies. I'm certainly very interested in the economics of chipset choice and in the power budget choices.

Quote:

To me aGPS is still 3-wheel + 1 leg solution for car industry.

I'd have thought AGPS would be one of the last choices for the car industry - cars are not inside very often (at least not while trying to navigate) and will probably have troubles obtaining assistance data anyway. Mobile phone/portable networked devices are more the AGPS target - they are used in poor signal areas and have network connections through which to download the assistance data.

Quote:

just visit GPS semantic www pages at
http://www.tinyurl.com/iDarius

I looked here and can't find any comparison of the various chipsets, could you give a specific URL please?

Re: Why aGPS in N810, iPhone ?

I do like the SiRFstarIII on my Garmin Nuvi but, isn't SiRF having problems now with Broadcom due to patent infringement, specifically with their SiRFstarIII chip?

ETA: Ok, here's the article -- http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/st...4864666&EDATE=

Re: Why aGPS in N810, iPhone ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by darius2 (Post 220772)

I just need to (must) know exact answers as a matter of business strategy.

No, you don't, and you won't get them anyway... as a matter of Nokia's business.

Quote:

If you can't disclose such info into public, just email me.

If any Nokia employee emails you proprietary info I will personally see to it they don't get the opportunity again.

Re: Why aGPS in N810, iPhone ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texrat (Post 220781)

No, you don't, and you won't get them anyway... as a matter of Nokia's business.

Promise is promise.
Are you speaking for Nokia this time ?

If any Nokia employee emails you proprietary info I will personally see to it they don't get the opportunity again.

I am free to call or email Nokia manager
asking my question under Consumers Protection Act.
So your participation is not necessary.

Any more problems ?

(pls don't reply, no more poetry)

darius

Re: Why aGPS in N810, iPhone ?

No consumer protection would have any bearing whatsoever on your request.

I suggest you find another forum to troll.

Good luck with those windmills, Don Quixote.

Re: Why aGPS in N810, iPhone ?

No don't go, I still want to see that chipset comparison, costings and power budget comparisons and new AGPS theory!

Re: Why aGPS in N810, iPhone ?

Asked you to not-reply.
Can't give right answer so stop your imaginations.
Nobody interested.

There is a number of smart knowing guys at this place,
still interested in the getting right and exact answer
why no more Sirf III in N810, new 3G iPhone.

You can troll this tread , trying to close it but it makes no sense.
Consumers Protection Act works fine under general Constitutional Rights, so your efforts hurt consumers rights in public place.

Darius

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texrat (Post 220789)

No consumer protection would have any bearing whatsoever on your request.

I suggest you find another forum to troll.

Good luck with those windmills, Don Quixote.

Re: Why aGPS in N810, iPhone ?

@darius2, you seem to have a problem understanding what A-GPS is.

A-GPS is a way, using network capabilities of your phone (or wifi) to have a clue of where you are, and then give this info to a GPS chip to get the fix quicker.

Both N810 and iPhone have a GPS chip, and they both could give you your position without A-GPS. A-GPS only comes there as a support.

The N810 has a Texas Instrument chip, which is not so good to get its first fix but is good for other things(battery life, keeping the fix,...). To make the first fix quicker, Nokia introduced, as software, A-GPS. It improved the TTFF for most of us. Same goes for the iPhone.

Now, as your question is: why didn't they put the best GPS chip (aka SirfIII) in the N810 and iPhone?
it's like asking "why didn't they put a Ferrari engine in my VolksWagen?"

And asking, us or Nokia about that is as pointless as asking VolksWagen. They made the choice they thought was the best.

Re: Why aGPS in N810, iPhone ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boke (Post 220798)

@darius2, you seem to have a problem understanding what A-GPS is.
___

I can assure you I don't have any problem
and I am fully aware how does A1GPS and A2GPS works and developed such solution for LBS some time ago.

___
A-GPS is a way, using network capabilities of your phone (or wifi) to have a clue of where you are, and then give this info to a GPS chip to get the fix quicker.
___

There are at least 3 AGPS solutions.
One in no-gps iPhone (Skyhook) - network database based pseudo GPS

Second is A2GPS for devices with slow processor, slow gps chip

and Third is A3GPS for Sirf III like gps chip based devices.

______
As both in N810 and new 3G iPhone we discuss A2GPS

_________
Both N810 and iPhone have a GPS chip, and they both could give you your position without A-GPS. A-GPS only comes there as a support.
___
exactly
support to non-Sirf III gps chip like quality

The N810 has a Texas Instrument chip, which is not so good to get its first fix but is good for other things(battery life, keeping the fix,...). To make the first fix quicker, Nokia introduced, as software, A-GPS. It improved the TTFF for most of us. Same goes for the iPhone.
___
Exactly.
A2GPS solution.

So what about A3GPS ?
keep network assistance alive and offer Sirf III gps chip alike quality ?

I expect, lately announced release of new iPhone is exactly
A3GPS solution (network assistance + Sirf III like navigation quality).

I still remember poor gps quality in Motorola A1000, called aGPS (developed 5-6 years ago)
_____________

Now, as your question is: why didn't they put the best GPS chip (aka SirfIII) in the N810 and iPhone?
___
Not best.
Sirf III gps quality is market standard nowadays.
__

it's like asking "why didn't they put a Ferrari engine in my VolksWagen?"
__
Nope.

And asking, us or Nokia about that is as pointless as asking VolksWagen. They made the choice they thought was the best.

___
Nope.
Such choice could be ok 5 years ago not today
with market full of $100 Sirf III gps based car navigations.

darius