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-   Community (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=16)
-   -   Constructive Criticism: what is is and what it ain't... (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=39398)

mikec 2010-01-06 16:54
Re: Constructive Criticism: what is is and what it ain't...
 
Have also seen some threads where a single positive individual is attacked by a Pack of Negatives. Ignoring these Packs makes it worse for the positive and is like watching a crime on the street and doing nothing about it.:mad:

jaark 2010-01-06 17:00
Re: Constructive Criticism: what is is and what it ain't...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikec (Post 455780)
Have also seen some threads where a single positive individual is attacked by a Pack of Negatives. Ignoring these Packs makes it worse for the positive and is like watching a crime on the street and doing nothing about it.:mad:
Well said. If a community can't (or is unwilling) to assist non-trolls, they will often leave which lowers the s/n ratio further.

Dealing with them has to be done on an almost individual basis - some just get louder the more they are ignored, whereas others see the ban > re-register cycle as a game or an excuse to abuse the mods and admins of a forum.

Texrat 2010-01-06 17:01
Re: Constructive Criticism: what is is and what it ain't...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by krisse (Post 455776)
The thing that bothers me is when someone joins a forum and expresses nothing but contempt for the topic of that forum. Why do they join?
You're trying to reason with sociopaths again. ;)

Rauha 2010-01-06 17:06
Re: Constructive Criticism: what is is and what it ain't...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaark (Post 455785)
Dealing with them has to be done on an almost individual basis - some just get louder the more they are ignored, whereas others see the ban > re-register cycle as a game or an excuse to abuse the mods and admins of a forum.
I almost never use ignore lists on forums. Succesfull trolls are allways good attention whores. Their stuff will get quoted in so many posts that you end up reading whatever they write anyway. Occasional posts from young padawan trolls are easy to ignore without any list.

I agree with Texrat. Selective and very firm moderation is the key.

Matan 2010-01-06 17:09
Re: Constructive Criticism: what is is and what it ain't...
 
This forum used to be called internettablettalk. Maybe it should now be called nokiafanbois.com.

Here is some constructive criticism for you: Nokia vs. Apple lawsuit is not related to Maemo. A thread about it has no place in this forum.

Here's another: a phone that can't have different ring tone per caller is not a good phone. No way to spin around that.

Even more: not being able to dial some numbers is a really really really bad bug for a phone. This is a bug that can and should be fixed in a day. Saying that the fix is delayed for months because Nokia want to run the fix through their great and long QA process sounds vacuous.

dwould 2010-01-06 17:13
Re: Constructive Criticism: what is is and what it ain't...
 
In terms of those who do try to be constructive, but could improve, being specific is helpful.
from my own experience with witter, those who have given very specific requirements, and information about how I could look to meet them, have found their requests met. Others who have simply said 'not as good as gravity' will find I have no idea what gravity is like, so don't really know how to respond.

Also I like the point about suggesting how to solve the problem, when talking about an app, suggesting ways to fix/improve it with specific information is good. And for those of us that are not actually programming gods with time to burn learning everything, the more directly we can be pointed at documentation to help us solve problems the better.

Tomaszd 2010-01-06 17:19
Re: Constructive Criticism: what is is and what it ain't...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texrat (Post 455766)
I disagree those are the only options.

For one, I still have yet to see that ignoring can actually work. It never did in forums I used to frequent. People who crave attention will up the ante until they get it one way or another. To sociopaths, negative attention is better than positive attention because it's free and easy to obtain in large quantities.

What I have seen work is not heavy moderation but highly selective moderation. Target the root cause troublemakers, who are usually low in number but attract large followers when they are allowed to persist. Ban them, and when they create another account, ban them again. Eventually they will find a forum where there is no moderation.

They're like locusts, even in small numbers. They invade, disrupt, and leave chaos in their wake. Soft moderation is useless when it comes to these types.
This is a good idea, but requires good judgement from the moderators. I'm not even aware if we have those, as I wasn't really interested, but do they actually have the power to ban someone or can they just move threads to appropriate categories and nothing else?

Rauha 2010-01-06 17:25
Re: Constructive Criticism: what is is and what it ain't...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matan (Post 455796)
This forum used to be called internettablettalk. Maybe it should now be called nokiafanbois.com.
Starting by calling the community fanbois is hardly the best way for constrcutive criticism.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Matan (Post 455796)
Here is some constructive criticism for you: Nokia vs. Apple lawsuit is not related to Maemo. A thread about it has no place in this forum.
Off-topic for this thread, but since I'm propably the most active poster in that thread I'll respond.

I disagree that Nokia vs. Apple lawsuit doesn't have anything to do with this forum. For example, both Maemo and N900 are mentioned is Apple's countersue paper. Apple also claims that N900 infringes at least one of it's patents. Thus the lawsuit could have very direct effect on this community. It can also effect Nokia's business seriously. As such I think it relates to this community, based on OS mainly developed and funded by Nokia and running (mainly, excluding various hacks) on Nokia hardware.

Having said that, "General" as the the main sub-forum might not be the place for it.

Tomaszd 2010-01-06 17:28
Re: Constructive Criticism: what is is and what it ain't...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matan (Post 455796)
This forum used to be called internettablettalk. Maybe it should now be called nokiafanbois.com.

Here is some constructive criticism for you: Nokia vs. Apple lawsuit is not related to Maemo. A thread about it has no place in this forum.

Here's another: a phone that can't have different ring tone per caller is not a good phone. No way to spin around that.

Even more: not being able to dial some numbers is a really really really bad bug for a phone. This is a bug that can and should be fixed in a day. Saying that the fix is delayed for months because Nokia want to run the fix through their great and long QA process sounds vacuous.
I'm sure this is a worthy contribution to this thread. It's not in any way inflammatory.

Here's some food for thought: do you think everyone thinks like you? Because personally I almost never change the default ring tone, so I don't care about this feature. Therefore I don't think it's a bad phone. I also have no use for the numbers that cannot be called. Therefore I don't think it's a bad phone. For me.

For you those two things probably ruin your day, but it's only you.

Also, bugs cannot and will not be fixed in a day (as in, delivered to customers). If you think they can be, then you have no idea what you are talking about.

And a thread about Nokia vs. Apple in a forum about Nokia devices is quite reasonably placed. Don't read it if you don't like it.

Texrat 2010-01-06 17:30
Re: Constructive Criticism: what is is and what it ain't...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matan (Post 455796)
This forum used to be called internettablettalk. Maybe it should now be called nokiafanbois.com.

Here is some constructive criticism for you: Nokia vs. Apple lawsuit is not related to Maemo. A thread about it has no place in this forum.

Here's another: a phone that can't have different ring tone per caller is not a good phone. No way to spin around that.

Even more: not being able to dial some numbers is a really really really bad bug for a phone. This is a bug that can and should be fixed in a day. Saying that the fix is delayed for months because Nokia want to run the fix through their great and long QA process sounds vacuous.
This post is a perfect example of the problem. I'm still wondering what people who cast about juvenile epithets like "nokiafanbois" expect from the maemo.org forum.

Does it need to be said this is not about iPhone or Android?

Yet, ironically, those who complain about the default bias here and the alleged inappropriate nature of certain topics love to invoke other products. I see no problem with such comparisons per se but I don't see hypocrisy as a virtue.

And FYI, lawsuits that can affect the Maemo devices are directly relevant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rauha (Post 455818)
Having said that, "General" as the the main sub-forum might not be the place for it.
General is the perfect section for it.


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