Re: Android is not open
 

The fact of the matter is that neither Android or Maemo are open. For the most part, both Google and Nokia control what devices can run their operating systems. Google's control is obvious in the market, for examples of Nokia's control, take a look at the threads here related to Chinese phones claiming to run Maemo.

In the end it doesn't matter for most users. Both Android and Maemo allow tinkerers to gain root (and if you brick your phone as a result, both have warranties that allow them to deny responsibility). For non-tinkerers, both provide a platform with a number of useful apps which can be installed and it comes down to which features and which apps are useful to you.

Now can we get on with life?

Re: Android is not open
 

The Android OS is completely open source. You can take and build your own, functional, android OS to run on any device you damn well please. NITDroid is a perfect example of this.

However, you will not get certain closed source packages such as Maps, Market, Gmail, etc. Those are google's proprietary software that they sell as the "google experience" with certain manufacturers and their phones. If you actually pay attention the google's Cease and Desist they did not say cyanogen cannot provide ROM's to the public - he cannot provide roms with their proprietary software to the public (specifically: he released their shiny new market before they did and pissed them off). Now I personally disagree with google's take on this, especially with their "Do no Harm" motto, but they did have the right to do so.

You cannot take Maemo sources and build your own Maemo OS on any device you damn well please. There is closed source components to the basic Maemo functionality that prevent you from building from scratch and even getting to a usable desktop.

In this aspect: Android is more open than Maemo. With Android you can build and create your own, functional OS, from sources. Even Stskeeps, the creator of Mer, agrees with me that the core of the Maemo OS is not entirely OSS and it causes a LOT of headache for him in building Mer.

However: The only official devices with android on them are locked out and prevent root. Google spends a lot of time locking up and fixing bugs that caused people able to root their android devices to take control. On the other hand, Nokia doesn't give two shits if you grab the rootsh package from the Extras repository and do whatever the hell you want with your device.

In this aspect: Maemo has a more open environment than Android, as the oversearing company is more open to allowing people to have access to the device they purchased.

@DaveP1 - Android only allows you to gain root if you build your own.. there is no "root me" app in the official Google Market like there is in the (mostly) official Maemo Extras repository. So Both Android and Maemo aren't on the same field as far as "gaining root" and tinkering with it.

Re: Android is not open
 

Can anyone explain exactly which parts of Maemo are not GPL (or point me to somewhere I can read about it)?

Are we talking things like the phone app and status bar, or base libraries?

Re: Android is not open
 

I think the problem here is people who don't understand what "Android" is, Android is NOT GOOGLE Google simply owns the Trademark because they purchased Android, Inc. Android is fully developed by the Open Handset Alliance which Google happens to be a part of and dedicate developers too, all of Android as a whole is open source and available through AOSP(Android Open Source Project). The closed source parts are provided by Google themselves, and are not a part of Android, The Android Open Source Project, or developed by the OHA but Google themselves.

A direct quote from someone who actually works at Google "Android is the Open Handset Alliance's mobile software platform." -Jason Chen. There are plenty of companies who have coders that contribute to AOSP ranging from eBay to PacketVideo. But no one would claim that the eBay app is part of android and is open source, Neither are the Google Apps, that's just how Google makes money on Android, Licensing them out for distribution on Google Experience devices.

If you want a device with root, buy them as a Android Developer, The ADP1, ADP2, and Google Ion were all completely unlocked and pre rooted, just don't go buying a consumer device. The people locking them are Carriers w/ HTC doing it at their request because carriers don't want to deal with exchanges over bricked devices. Last I checked there aren't any carriers demanding the N900 be locked.


P.S. I'll be happy to get anyone a ADP1 or ADP2 through my developer account at cost + shipping =D

Re: Android is not open
 

Not sure why I'm responding to this flame-bait, but I'm a sucker, always been, sooooo....

Every Android device can be "rooted" in a fairly trivial (and practically manufacturer-sanctioned) way. There are (realistically speaking) no measures in place to prevent you from rooting an Android device - they're just trying to make it harder for people to make themselves vulnerable to viruses or other attack vectors.

Technically, the reason that Fennec is not available on Android is because of the completely different architecture of Android. And technically, someone could write a (relatively) simple wrapper around Fennec that would allow it to run in Android. No one has considered it a worthwhile endeavor, however, perhaps a testiment to the worth of Android's built-in browser.

That's a gross over-simplification of the situation. Maemo is not "rooted" by default - you have to install a program that grants you sudo access. The process is actually relatively equivalent (in terms of difficulty) to the process for rooting Android.

Again, this is due to the architecture of Android, not the openness of Android. Someone could write a wrapper around Pidgin to run it on Android, but (in my experience) Android users generally prefer the built-in IM client.

There are certain parts of Google's Android distribution that are not open source. Nokia actually does the exact same thing. Cyanogen violated the difference by including Google-proprietary software with its distributation.

That does not mean that Android itself is not open source. It's very similar to the situation with many Linux distributions - in general, they are open source except for certain parts (like Nvidia's display drivers) that are not open source.

It's important to note that 30,000 active users represents less than 1% of all Android users. So.... not a particularly massive group.

Actually, I find it hilarious that you bring up Cyanogen, since its existence is actually a great example of the openness of Android. You won't find anything like Cyanogen for Windows ME or iPhone OS, because it's simply not allowed by law. Cyanogen can exist because Android (the operating system - not Google's proprietary apps) is open source.

Another point of interest: you can install any app you like on an Android phone (pending copyright restrictions). Apple's devices do not allow that. So there's a huge difference between Apple and Google as far as their operating systems are concerned. Admittedly, Maemo is more open than either of them, but you cannot deny that Apple's mobile approach is far more closed than Google's.

There's a clear difference between open source and proprietary software. I think everyone here knows that. Google understands that and has drawn a clear line between Android (the open-source operating system) and Google applications (proprietary software). That doesn't make Android (the operating system) any less open source than Linux, for which there is plenty of proprietary software.

Yes, Maemo's core is open-source, just like Android's. But just as Google includes closed-source apps with its Android distributions, so does Nokia with its Maemo distributions.

Re: Android is not open
 

Excuse me?? Short of the ADP's mentioned above which come with root... rooting almost *any* consumer android device is mostly a PITA. In the G1 you have to flash an older firmware first in order to exploit a kernel flaw, and here's your totally trivial way in which to root the Cliq.

Yeah ok...

Don't get me wrong.. I think Android is great.. but it's no where near the league of Nokia with regards to gaining root.

Re: Android is not open
 

Actually it's not at all, One Click Root still works on a majority of the HTC devices(MyTouch, G1), flashing the Droid is as simple as copying a update.zip to SD card and flashing. The Nexus One is as simple as putting it in bootloader mode and double clicking a .bat file. The Cliq is as simple as downloading 2 things, clicking a total of 3 buttons to re-flash, then entering one command in an ADB shell. Long gone are the days of goldcards and such.

Re: Android is not open
 

First I'd like to thank you for proving my point so effectively.


This only works on a particular firmware version. I forget the RC3x that it requires but it was patched... meaning that if you have one that is not that specific one this won't work, and you have to first flash *back* to that one using update.zip and then get this app.

Yes:
Download file,
rename file,
put file somewhere specific
reboot
press magic key combinations, in special order
wait
reboot
yayRoot!

Bat file?? I assume then this requires connecting to the computer .. right???

Yes.. 2 downloads, 3 buttons, plus a developer shell command...

And somehow all of these are supposed to compare to:
Open official Application Manager (HAM)
Install rootsh
Enjoy root!

No reboots, no flashing, no magic keypresses, and you're downloading from a trusted source - not some random website online who specializes in hacking devices for a living and hoping it's not malicious... and no connecting to a computer to do anything - unless you choose R&D Mode.

Sorry... I believe root should be available on the N900 by default, as all of this is "hacks" to get access to your device... but in terms of user-friendliness and easeness - no android or iphone device compares to Maemo. Maemo could, if they wanted, fix the problem that allows us to install rootsh so easily - but to this point, they've neither cared: and mostly made it public knowledge that you could do so. This is the huge difference between consumer Android, and consumer Maemo.

Re: Android is not open
 

I agree it's definitely not on the same level as Maemo, but it's hardly a PITA especially the PITA it used to be, all of the platforms are relatively easy to gain root access on, I guess I just personally don't consider connecting a device to a computer, and clicking one .exe to be entirely difficult(iPhone/Android) or copying one file to a SD card and flashing it(WM/Other Android). But yes compared to "sudo gainroot" it's definitely more effort.

Re: Android is not open
 

yeah sorry, post is very inaccurate.