maemo.org - Talk - Custom GUI / Shell Replacement for ITTs?

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- - Custom GUI / Shell Replacement for ITTs? (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=8705)

Re: Custom GUI / Shell Replacement for ITTs?

Quote:

Originally Posted by aflegg (Post 67720)

The Ubuntu wiki page also gives you step-by-step instructions on how to recreate the same UI on an existing Hildon install.

Where? I've been on this page a few times, and I'd personally love to take my hand at this as my first exercise in digging into Linux. Like the OP and a few others, I'm not the greatest programmer, but the UI play could be fun.

Re: Custom GUI / Shell Replacement for ITTs?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ulises (Post 128645)

Aye up chaps,

First post in this forum.

I recently got my 770 and I love the beast. Sure, it's not the best in the range but it does the job.

Wanting to change the appearance and interaction I started toying with openbox, etc. but they are oriented to desktops therefore the interaction with the tablet is somewhat cumbersome.

I agree that a new approach would be very nice, in fact, I've been looking for a project to start coding for the tablet and this might actually be it.

Needless to say, I'm no graphics designer, more like a programmer (and even bad at that) but I'm willing to put the effort. So, could someone please direct me to a thread where the action is? Or maybe a project I can join and start contributing?

From the top of my head, the Ubuntu UI looks nice, I don't know about the interaction because I haven't tested it (if that's even possible). Still, the iphone approach seems to the be the preferred one for this type of device and I agree (until something better appears).

Anyway, cheerio!

U

Read this:

http://www.cs.gmu.edu/~sean/stuff/n800/

first. It's a comparison between the UI of the Best Handheld Ever <TM> and that of the Nokia Internet Tablets. It'll tach you what Nokia did wrong (and the very few things they accidentally got right).

If you've never actually owned a Newton, read the article twice.

Edit: Also, don't forget to read this:

http://cs.gmu.edu/~sean/stuff/n800/2007trip/

It's a bit outdated (especially the remarks about mplayer), but it's a fun (in a self-mutilating sort of way) read with lots of information for the budding UI designer.

Re: Custom GUI / Shell Replacement for ITTs?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benson (Post 128749)

Wait'll Karel Jansens shows up... you guys talking of putting the iPhone <spit> interface on an IT!

I'd like something more finger-friendly; the problem, though, is many apps are not designed to display well smaller than the non-fullscreen size. So it'll be difficult to make a bunch of apps work well if you reduce either width (below about 700px) or especially height (below about 400px for some apps, others respect the stylus-board and display fine at ~300px).
I don't want an iCandy interface on my N800. I'm after more functionality, which is not what sets the iPhone <spit> apart. A different sort of finger-interface would be nice, but it's seriously difficult at this point to make it work well with old apps. When the N900 comes out with a 1024x800 screen, such changes can be made. (You guys are working on that now, right Ragnar?;))

Edit: forgot this part which I intended to include:
We don't want an iInterface for our ITs because:

We don't have tiny screens (so pinch-zooming and panning aren't as necessary)
We don't have real multi-touch (so pinch-zooming is not as easily possible)

We don't?
We don't?
Sounds like you speaking for the whole NIT community.
I'm all for an iInterface, or any interface for that matter.
I'm guessing right now, but I think a we statement had to be made about not needing a descent paint application. which is why we still don' t have a descent paint application.

I don't mean no harm by this quote on your statement.
I just think when We speak of not needing or needing something on the tablet a (I) should be used.

Maybe a pole should be started.

Re: Custom GUI / Shell Replacement for ITTs?

Quote:

Originally Posted by unique311 (Post 128820)

We don't?
We don't?
Sounds like you speaking for the whole NIT community.

Perhaps it would have been better if I had said "An iInterface is unusable for us because:"? After all, there are probably some who wish they had an unusable interface...

I'm not speaking for the NIT community, I'm speaking for the group of people who have not hacked a low-res multi-touch display into their NIT. There's probably a large amount of overlap between these groups, however.

The iPhone/iPod Touch are very different devices from the ITs, and re-implementing their interface would result in seriously poor usability; it would under-utilize the incredible resolution, and be awkward to get around in because some key gestures are not practically implementable.

You may notice that when I was discussing the eye-candy aspect, I said I don't want it -- because we don't all have the same preferences.
When I started talking about concrete facts which would make something unusable, I said we, because (AFAIK), we do all have the same hardware (in the respects I was discussing).

Quote:

I'm all for an iInterface, or any interface for that matter.

You seem to imply your tablet does not have an interface? I guess you must be in that awkward phase where the old screen has been removed, but you don't have the low-res multi-touch one hooked up yet? The ITs have an interface, just not one you're real happy with. But any interface? I'll bet I could make one you'd not be "all for".

Quote:

I'm guessing right now, but I think a we statement had to be made about not needing a descent paint application. which is why we still don' t have a descent paint application.

There are some Nokia folks around who can probably answer this one better, but I seriously doubt that one post on a public forum suggesting whether "we" or "I" don't need no steenking paint program is the cause of this.

Tried tuxpaint yet? It's not precisely a "serious" program, but it does everything of MS paint, and lots more.

Not sure what you mean by starting a "pole". You mean a poll regarding whether we want the iPhone/iPod touch interface on our tablets, or regarding whether it is acceptable to use "we" when referring to issues regarding our common hardware platform? Either way, I think all users on the forums are able to create polls, so have at it. (Not sure, as I have yet to even start a thread, so far.)

Re: Custom GUI / Shell Replacement for ITTs?

2 Karel Jansens.
I've read both of your essays and deffinnetly agree with you in most of aspects. I have many thoughts about Maemo UI design, not like "this is crap, that is crap, this should be iPhonelike" but (2 my mind of course) easy to make and it will deffinetely raise the usability of ITT's to the new level. But I dunno where to post or write or speak or something else. Maybe we can combine our thoughts (your's up to date and my which I can make) and make some oficcial document, that will be really helpful for Maemo UI team. Well, something like that.

And of course anone else can participate, but with real deal and project/design or anything else, that can be viewed.

Re: Custom GUI / Shell Replacement for ITTs?

Quote:

Originally Posted by wazd (Post 129012)

Dude! they're not my essays! (seriously, I cannot hope to ever thread in Sean Luke's footsteps)

And I (and probably Sean Luke as well) have pointed Nokia's attention to these documents. Their only reaction sofar has been to do exactly the opposite of Sean's propositions. And while not very hopeful, at least it's quite clear where Nokia stands in regards to intelligent UI design (it's largely a whole-heartedly "F**k you, user!").

For the Itablets to ever become successful pocketable computers, I believe Penguinbait's method is the way to go: Ditch as much of the fugly Hildon as you can and dare, and open the suckers up.

Re: Custom GUI / Shell Replacement for ITTs?

I think, that if you have shown that pages to nokia — their reaction is totaly understandable. They have limits of time for OS developing and I don't think that they have free time to find a sense in that "document". What I propose is to create 100% clear document, which will be created by whole (who want's) community, listing the wannabe changes in very intuitive way "before-howto-after". Nicely designed and easy readable. Then I think we'll have a chance to change something with power of Community.

Re: Custom GUI / Shell Replacement for ITTs?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karel Jansens (Post 128801)

Read this:

http://www.cs.gmu.edu/~sean/stuff/n800/

first. It's a comparison between the UI of the Best Handheld Ever <TM> and that of the Nokia Internet Tablets.

For being The Best Handheld Ever, and created by Apple, I find it a bit suprising how little Apple then utilized elements from the Newton design in their iPhone/iPod Touch designs. Karel, do you have any thoughts on this?

Re: Custom GUI / Shell Replacement for ITTs?

the newton was not a jobs project. hell i think he even was the one to pull the plug on it.

Re: Custom GUI / Shell Replacement for ITTs?

I think the key to success of UI is not to be "like %insert device name%. iPhone's interface have crappy moments to, and i even don't sureabout their ammount. Glossy and shiny cover helds poor inner side. Like 4 different styles of app decoration, stupid and not switchable sms "chat" and so and so on. I think we must just sit down and think, what will be really useful and handy and make a concept to send it to te Nokia. Not "we should do here like it made in iPhone" but "we should do here this, this and that." Maybe Nokia will hear our calls :)