Re: Third Internet Tablet spotted on FCC
 

Nokia did talk about adding a chip to the board in earlier interviews about the Wimax N800. I've never seen them talk about making a card.

Re: Third Internet Tablet spotted on FCC
 

It's not about looks, it's about portability, durability and ease of use.

Having such an original insight as the 770's hard case-with-magnet-switch, then dropping it, is IMHO very dumb.

Re: Third Internet Tablet spotted on FCC
 

A WiMax SDIO card would also make more sense in a device with more than one SD slot, like the n800, especially if one of the slots is harder to readily access.

Re: Third Internet Tablet spotted on FCC
 

Of course, Nokia could do anything they like to get the WiMax into the same form factor - they may, for example, replace the internal SD card slot with the WiMax module completely...

Pure speculation at this point of course, and more importantly, this thread is about the imminent tablet, not the WiMax device next year, which do appear to be separate devices at this stage...

Re: Third Internet Tablet spotted on FCC
 

The screen on the N800 in this picture says "Xohm", which is the marketing brand name for Sprint's WiMax network.

http://www.cbronline.com/article_new...E-7D18C54A1287

Re: Third Internet Tablet spotted on FCC
 

For SDIO to be useful there will need to be some changes to the device:

1) It needs an SDIO capable slot (I'm not sure the current N800 supports SDIO - it would be quite useless anyway because of 2) below)

2) The slot needs to be of a different type, because the current N800 SD/MMC slots can't accomodate SDIO cards - they are typically longer (sometimes quite much longer) than SD/MMC cards.

Re: Third Internet Tablet spotted on FCC
 

1) Sprint Xohm is only going to be launched Q2/2008, so there is little point of releasing wimax products before that.

2) Wimax adds to up size, weight, price and power consumption of the device. Unless you know there is good wimax coverage in your area and you plant to subscribe for it, wimax is only a burden for you.

Re: Third Internet Tablet spotted on FCC
 

Wimax doesn't just exist in the US.

Re: Third Internet Tablet spotted on FCC
 

It is pretty obvious that wimax will not come with this version. As far as i see the following are the imporvements.

1. GPS
2. Transreflective screeen
3. More device memory with 256 mb ram.
4. Only one memory card slot
5. Hard cover like the n770
6. Extensible key pad
7. More finger driven UI
8. In the box support for a2dp


This is pure speculation!!!

Re: Third Internet Tablet spotted on FCC
 

The SDIO cards I have fit fine in the external slot (BT and Camera). However, there is a switch that disables the slot if the cover is open. However (again :) ), I was told on this forum by our Brazilian friends I believe, that this switch can be disabled via software.

Re: Third Internet Tablet spotted on FCC
 

I think a SDIO WiMAX solution makes the most sense. Nokia can opt to bundle the card with the new GPS tablet and offer the card as an accessory for current N800 along with a new firmware update to support it. I'd think Nokia would want to keep current N800 owners happy while making the transition to new hardware as smooth as possible. If this turns out not to be the case however, I hope Nokia has a plan B.

Re: Third Internet Tablet spotted on FCC
 

I don't care about wimax, because it isn't available were I live.

I think nokia should improve/perfect the usability of the internet tablet, making it a web tablet with a desktop/laptop quality browsing experience.

-full speed flash support: n800 is too slow for some flash heavy sites (high bitrate video for example)
-embedded video support (windows media, quicktime and real )
-full speed for Ajax heavy sites (google docs, reader etc. etc.)
-should be perfectly stable: both Opera and the Mozilla browser aren't perfectly stable. (sometimes they crash: NOT acceptable )
-fully usable with your fingers: using software improvements and maybe a better touchscreen (multitouch??)
-better outside usability : the screen of the N800 isn't viewable in bright sunlight, so a better screen that solves this would be welcome.
-improvements in the text input methods: like a hardware keyboard, or working hand writing recognition, or other software input methods (trace writing, better error detection in words, a d-pad input method etc.)
-bring back the Nokia 770 hard cover: it worked SO well, and protected the device perfectly.

Adding other features aren't necessary in my opinion:
-GPS navigation
-slick looking UI with zoom effects (like the iphone)
-better camera
-stereo blue tooth headphone support

they could be nice, but the MAIN feature of the tablets aren't fully mature yet and should be the top most priority.

Re: Third Internet Tablet spotted on FCC
 

The processor speed is just over the adequate bar. Sorta like Forest Gump's IQ. :)
And just like Forest who could do one thing really well (run Forest, run), I feel certain that the current tablet will be able to do 1 or 2 things really well.
However, I would think that whatever that 1 thing is, it wont be developed until the API break in perhaps Chinook. After Chinook, the default setting is to provide API compatibility with an emphasis in backward compatibility in new maemo versions. Without that, I would think the user base is somewhat limited.

Re: Third Internet Tablet spotted on FCC
 

I agree 100% with you Bernard. Get the foundations of these devices solid, and build from there.

Re: Third Internet Tablet spotted on FCC
 

I have posted umpteen times since January that the IT is getting a WiMax chip.

Here is my post with the official press out of WiMax world. the SDIO card ain't gonna happen!

http://www.internettablettalk.com/fo...?t=8603&page=8

Re: Third Internet Tablet spotted on FCC
 

Well, either the FCC is leaving something out, or Nokia is leaving WiMAX out of this upcoming tablet. The only other possible outcomes are that there's a fourth device that will include WiMAX that is yet to be FCC'd or there will be some sort of external/add on to the third device (and possibly the current N800 tablet).

So one way or another, we will have a WiMAX tablet. The argument seems to be headed to how we will get it. I'd like to hear some alternative scenarios that I may have missed here. All levels of speculation is welcome.

Re: Third Internet Tablet spotted on FCC
 

1) Given the power profile, the 770 isn't slow for a 2005-2006 device. N800 isn't slow for a 2007 device.

2) Hardware-based motion video playback accelerators are limited in the codecs they can handle. Mplayer supports a wide variety of codecs.

3) Going from two SD slots to one SD slot would be an 'improvement' like switching from science to creationism in public schools.

Re: Third Internet Tablet spotted on FCC
 

Well... I hope that the how will be accomplished via an accessory card. I'll have to keep an eye on any FCC filings for such a device in the weeks to come.

Re: Third Internet Tablet spotted on FCC
 

Yes, time will tell all. It is the bringer of fact and solidifier of truth. :)

Re: Third Internet Tablet spotted on FCC
 

I certainly don't want to burst any bubbles or step on anyone's feet but what gives anyone an inkling of an idea that Nokia is or will come out with "any" backwards compatible hardware (Wimax card/adapter)or software for that matter for the N800 ?? So soon do we forget how Nokia left the 770 all but for dead when the 800 was released, so why given this track record gives anyone the impression that they won't do it again ? This is not to say that neither the N770 or N800 are/will be "unusable" after the next IT's release, but just wont have the "new and improved IT's" capabilites. Also we've heard on numerous occasions that we'll have at least 1 if not 2 more software updates for the N800.

Re: Third Internet Tablet spotted on FCC
 

My bubble is fully fortified and growing stronger by the minute. Plus I have steel toe boots on thank you. :)

Anyways, I think Nokia has learned it's lesson from the 770 fiasco, and are listening to the rumblings of the community voice. Much like the N95 upgrades with more memory, higher capacity battery, and US 3G, the N800 brought more to the Internet Tablet side than we first expected from Nokia. True, they each lost a hardware feature that was important to many users: the protective cover for the N800, and the lens cover for the new N95-3/N95 8GB (good thing I'm in that bubble).

I can't say enough times that this is uncharted territory for Nokia, and is bound to make mistakes along the way. But unlike other large corporations I know of, they seem to actually care and are willing to learn from those mistakes and at least attempt to rectify the flaws that it's customers see in many of it's products.

Being one of the many 770 users that was very disappointed in how Nokia handled the "transition" to the N800 and later the dropping of 770 support, I know how hard it is to believe Nokia won't make that mistake again. I guess that's where hope kicks in.

I also understand that a hardware upgrade as significant as the 770 to N800 on was is expected to break things. It's akin to the upgrade from 32 bit processors to 64 bit. Probably not as smooth, but just as annoying to developers.

If I'm wrong about any of this, and I hope I'm not, I may become more like iball and start kicking Nokia in the jimmy (and remember, I have steel toe boots on).

Re: Third Internet Tablet spotted on FCC
 

In this sense it was not significant upgrade at all. Yes CPU is a bit faster and there is more RAM but nothing significantly different. You cannot compare it with big changes in architecture like going from 32 to 64 bits. It is like going from PC with 64MB RAM and Pentium@266Mhz to PC with 128MB RAM and Pentium II @333Mhz. Such changes happen all the time and there is no technical excuse for not having OS2007 running fully on N770. In fact this is what hacker edition is and you can see that it works quite fine on N770. The reasons for ditching N770 were not technical. They simply had no resources for maintaining both devices.

Re: Third Internet Tablet spotted on FCC
 

Haha. Amen! I want as much storage on this thing as possible, and dual-SD slots is a good way towards that goal.

Re: Third Internet Tablet spotted on FCC
 

Ah, I knew I was off the mark with that comparison somehow. I just woke up and my brain is just starting to come online. You are absolutely right about the 770 being able to run OS2007 just fine. I'm not too bothered by the shifting of resources to the N800 as my 770 works just as well as the day I got it (if not a little better via the few firmware updates). Of course I never expected as much as I got from the cool little device either.

In the end I think there has been a lot more growth on the N800 side because of the shift of resources and support. It will only get better with future tablets, and I plan on upgrading to one of those because of that fact alone. I think Nokia can do better at providing the resources and support for all its tablets going forward, but I have to admit that this community has done one heck of a job filling the gaps in that department also.

Re: Third Internet Tablet spotted on FCC
 

There is some truth in that, but I wouldn't completely agree on "nothing significantly different". Nokia 770 runs OMAP 1710 processor whereas the N800 has the OMAP 2420. Google the TI pages for details on those two, if you haven't already. As the hacker edition shows, quite many parts of the new software can be made to work - to some extent - but there are valid differences in certain things like DSP handling, which certainly aren't by no means trivial.

Re: Third Internet Tablet spotted on FCC
 

It is OS kernel responsibility to handle these hardware differences (and this problem is solved/workarounded by running old kernel in OS2007HE). Userland should really see little differences between 770 and n800 when properly implemented. Both of these devices have an ARM core, they use the same C55x DSP (Nokia 770 DSP is probably even more powerful than N800 as it is running at higher clock frequency), LCD controllers are very similar (N800 uses a newer revision of Epson chip). So fanoush is right, the differences are comparable to the differences between Pentium and Pentium II on desktop (which are also mostly handled in kernel, so nobody notices them).

Re: Third Internet Tablet spotted on FCC
 

Because you were specifically promised Nokia wouldn't.

Re: Third Internet Tablet spotted on FCC
 

I'm always amazed to see that sort of remark.

What's your benchmark, Garage? A desktop computer with a 2.4 Ghz dual processor and a gig of ram? Come on. A little perspective goes a long way.

Re: Third Internet Tablet spotted on FCC
 

There are much faster UMPCs, but either their battery lives are awful, or they're not exactly pocket-sized.

The most important thing to know about mobile devices is that whatever you add takes something else away.

Re: Third Internet Tablet spotted on FCC
 

GPS is very much much a possibility as Nokia has invested a lot in their mapping services. A harware keyboard would be nice, but I find it just complicates the device. I think the virtual keyboard serves just fine, but it could use some software improvements.

Re: Third Internet Tablet spotted on FCC
 

UI performance could be better, snappier. Hopefully the upcoming Maemo 4.0 Chinook release (especially upgraded GTK) boosts N800's UI performance.

Re: Third Internet Tablet spotted on FCC
 

Re: Third Internet Tablet spotted on FCC
 

Jeez, and I thought it was early. :) Great post (as usual). I look forward to an early 2008 launch of this device. I don't think my budget can handle two high-end Nokia device purchases being so close together.

Third Internet Tablet - Slider Confirmed
 

Right as I was about to leave for work, I found:
http://tabletblog.com/2007/09/third-...confirmed.html

yay

Re: Third Internet Tablet spotted on FCC
 

Nice find (yet again!) thoughtfix, that made my day!

Now, if only Nokia would license a decent document viewer or editor to make the N800 more useful in processing popular document formats.. Picsel Viewer or Documents to Go, maybe?

Hopefully the next iteration of the tablet is targeted to a broader audience so licensing 3rd party software (such as doc the viewers\editors above) will be in Nokia's todo list.

Re: Third Internet Tablet spotted on FCC
 

Great find! I'm having really mixed feelings about the slider thing. It might make writing easier, but I'm afraid it will add to the bulk and the tablet is already at the limit of pocketability. It would be great if they could shave off some of the weight and thickness.

Re: Third Internet Tablet spotted on FCC
 

The previous design of the internet tablets had two layers:
1 - touch LCD
2 - PCB and battery

I would guess the slide and keyboard mechanisms would add a grand total of 3 mm to the thickness of the device. If you dissect any other kind of phone, you will discover that the keyboards are actually VERY thin on the inside.

I will also wager that the rotating camera will get ditched on this one. It was rather clever a design but required too many compromises (thickness, camera size/quality, automatic flip mechinism, one extra moving part to break.)

Re: Third Internet Tablet spotted on FCC
 

i just hope they didnt move the normal control buttons like on that image from engadget.

a slide out thumb keyboard, nice. but do not force the user to extend the keyboard for basic operations...

Re: Third Internet Tablet spotted on FCC
 

I think Nokia are scum. They release unfinished expensive devices one after the other, and fool everyone to think their devices are released complete. $300-400 was the price for the 770 and 800 when first released. Then they hardly give any support for their rushed devices before they want us to believe/purchase a brand new $400 device again that claims to be worth the upgrade. What about people that got there device 6 months after its released, they get to use their device for less than a year before it gets dropped and unsupported. Then nokia expect us to fork out another $400 for something that hopefully works well and will be supported for more than 1 year. I hate apple, but a least there devices get support for eternity unlike Nokia scum. I couldn't care less for the new tablet. My hard earned money will go to another company. This next IT will come out and nokia will leave it up to 3rd party to develop apps, there goes n800 support from Nokia and 3rd party, then ... you know the cycle. Give us at least a proper media center or pay someone to write good programs - give money to coreplayer or something, i'm sick of loading 4 different players to play certain video/music files. No word, pc sync, nothing... for those who have the n800 already stay far way from Nokia's future marketing scams. Let them show us they can support the next device by showing us first with the N800 and 770. DO NOT GIVE THEM WHAT THEY WANT(money) BEFORE THEY GIVE US WHAT WE ASK(support). DO NOT BUY THE NEW IT. Let the new IT suffer so they can finally learn not to screw the consumer over all the time. And Thoughtfix, I hope you tell Nokia these things when you go to these parties, try not to suck up to them so they can send you a free device to write good reviews - i know how things work in that department. :)

Re: Third Internet Tablet spotted on FCC
 

I just want the dang software to make our existing tablets more useful. :)