Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

Do like this guy did. Him too.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

Do you guys seriously think its all eye candy?

It is usability. You enjoy using it without heavy tweaking. An update means plugging into iTunes and not wiping your entire device. Your gmail account is setup instantly and works with IMAP with no questions asked. The maps client is responsive and intuitive, not sluggish and expensive (No setup required and it pulls from your contact addresses). The contacts and calendars sync. YouTube streams high quality h.264 streams, and it doesn't tear when you scroll.

The iPod part... well its awesome, and FAST. Sure the device isn't perfect, but whats there is awesome, fleshed out and responsive.

I really really (really) like the idea of the Nokia, its more computer like... but it doesn't deliver like a computer. It has the potential to be less of an accessory... but it just doesn't work out. Yet at least.

The Nokia can only live on its own, but its not ready to live on its own. The iPhone/iTouch lives with its parents, but it makes sense because your media, contacts, calendars are still more easily manipulated on your main computer.

The web is getting there, but its not ready to handle all your life yet. Rich local applications are still the best solution. It seems like Nokia threw their hands up and said, "why worry about it, there is a web version to handle PIM/Email..." all the while ignoring the fact that 800x480 still sucks if you want interact with large amounts of data on the web. It needs specially designed native apps to help you interact with your data on the web... like the iPhone.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

This is interesting and on topic for a change
http://www.gottabemobile.com/It+Is+A...Apple+SDK.aspx

If you look at what Apple has planned for this summer it is clear this opening shot just wiped out the hopes of any mids or N9x's that might have been announced for Fall.. As Warner Crocker says "game over" for anything but niche linux markets in the smartphone and MID categories.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

It's clear to him, maybe, and to you as well. It's not clear to me. The iPhone shows no evidence yet of running desktop-like apps. No hardware keyboard available (not even BT), very limited resolution, and only a little better performance-wise than the N800 (a year old).

I think the N9xx's and Pandora should do quite decently, even if Apple completely cleans house in the overlap, because they target different, but overlapping, markets.

MIDs, well, not so sure on that... I never was too certain that MIDs would do well, we'll have to see when they come out.

But I think it's premature to claim "game over" at this point.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

apple makes things "just work" by having full control from the hardware on up. they have control ibm and microsoft could oonly dream about. hell, i wonder what kind of swweet insentives they presented youtube with to make them do the recode...

thats also why woz "walked out". jobs wanted the mac to be more or less a black box, while woz wanted to allow the customers to tinker.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

That's just as off topic as every message in this thread. I just read through nine pages with the hopes of seeing a few comments actually about the Apple SDK.

I learned that the SDK is apparently amazing because it runs Spore and is awesome looking. Not exactly the info I was hoping for.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

OK.
The SDK is an extension of the existing XCode, and it just gives you a new type when you say new project. it gives you 3 defaults, simple, UI frame and basic list.
From there, coding is similar to programming for OSX was until garbage collection came in 10.5 (ie, no garbage collection). You basically get some new view classes.
When you hit run, you get a large iPhone like window, with a few applications (such as address book, safari) and the application you have just deployed, and the application runs on the iPhone simulator. The applications (or at least the examples) don't run on a real iPod at the moment, as they require 2.0, which isn't out yet (they sort of hang in various places on a real iPod). However, when you do plug an iPod in, it appears in a new window and asks if you want to use it as a deployment platform.

All in all it is very simple to set up and runs very smoothly. If you have a mac and any programming experience, I don't see you would have any problem being able to produce applications for the iPhone/iPod quickly. I would imagine that now, one day after launch, there are hundreds of applications taking form everywhere, and when OS 2.0 and iTunes apps starts, there is going to be a massive choice.

If there was a way to program for maemo that easily there would be a lot more quality applications for the nokias now.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

I bought an iPod Touch and returned it. I thought the internet experience was aweful. The N810's is much better. My fingers to big for the keyboard on the touch and glitchy software from Apple.

The N810 is a much better device for many of my needs, but I do wish there was more polish to the OS, but it seems to be coming.

A new OS update sure would be nice.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

I was almost thinking of switching, but changed my mind because of the following wired article: http://blog.wired.com/monkeybites/20...-delivers.html

I couldn't deal with only being able to run a single app at a time, palm wasn't even quite that bad. I might even consider developing for the iphone but I doubt it would be my primary device as I like having an UMPC instead of a cell phone.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

a few things here. you suckers still believe apples crap. just like sony they take already tech and resell it at a premium. sure its really cool butt is it worth the price? iphone a d touch are so powerful and theres no micro sd slot or bt. lol thats because they sucker you into buying it then 6 months later release next model.

they have taken open source and sold it for 100$

omg i have heard it all.

they are like sony greedy.
sony ps3 so powerful and does noting and it got beat by the wii.
fact wii sells 7 units to ps3 1
wii sells 5 units to xbox360

wii also has no issues unlike ps3 and xbox

and do you know why its about software, price, long term game investment.

when wii gets old they will release version 2 and house both xbox360 and sony.


its all about what works not marketing. nokia has already teamed up with intel on the mit.

the nokia n800 has had 3 os's in just over 1 year. i got my money worth i hope you did too.

plus they added fm chip and going from 320cpu to 400.

lets see apple do that. suckers

one more note nokia sells tons of them outside the usa.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

No, you just transfer the envelope, i.e. the smallest rectangle that contains all the changed ones. In other words, if your game uses 640x480 window, you only transfer that window.

From what I have seen in other ARM-based architectures, it is as simple as writing into a few DMA controller registers (starting and ending addresses + stride). To make it more complicated, Epson must have really screwed things up.

No, no, it usually does not get this disjoint in a SoC. If you have got a 3D engine and a video buffer in your chip, there is 99% probability that the 3D engine will render into that buffer. Adding another 600kB video buffer to the chip is prohibitively expensive.

You don't need to stop drawing, just need to know where your current DMA pointer is and not overwrite that spot.

Thanks, now I know where to look.

I have seen worse code.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

It was though. When you get a application change event you have to dump your state to memory and a new application gets a try. I don't know if that has changed with the newer (than 2 years ago) palms, but that is how it was last time I tried.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

As someone who has used an ipaq 4700 for several years, and is accustomed to getting full VGA resolution from a 4 inch screen, I find it very hard to get excited about the iPhone/iTouch. Regardless of how slick the software MAY EVENTUALLY be, at half-VGA and 3.5 inches, it doesn't surpass today what my iPaq did 3 years ago.

I got the N800 because it had a good screen, and I'm happy with it as an internet browser. In all other ways it is sadly inferior to my iPaq, primarily because of the limited horsepower and lack of mainstream apps.

Now, if apple comes up with an "iTouchMax", with a 4.3 inch screen and true VGA or better.... all bets are off.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

I still think interface design and scaling alleviates most of your complaint. Windows Mobile and Maemo both waste an incredible amount of screen real estate on screen and have no scaling. You'll find that everything looks great and fits on the iTouch screen just fine. Even websites are easier to navigate on the 480x320 screen than the 800x480 of the N800. Mostly due to the slick input and resizing.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

I think the point most 770, N8X0 owners have been trying to make on the tablets is you don't have to resize that much. I see the iPhone/iTouch commercials and they are zooming in/out all over the place. On my N810 I just use full screen mode and use the page as intended without and magnification. The resizing for the iPhone/iTouch was necessary for the size screen Apple decided to use. As your screen gets larger zooming in/out isn't necessary. Multi touch is ok but not the second coming of Christ.

I guess we'll see in June the apps that come out.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

Below you will find a quote by a person who has no clue.

How about one OS that works right? hmmmm? How about an OS that doesn't corrupt your drives (sd drived is this case)? Or an OS that doesn have runaway processes that eat up the CPU and kill the battery? Or wait maybe a mail client that can deal with IMAP properly or....

and If you bought an iPhone you got about 4 updates so far in a year. Ummm yeah....

If you don't like Apple and /or Apple products say so and move along.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

I tried discussing the problems of the SDK on macrumors, but the RDF was far too strong there.

1) It's incompatible with the GPLv3 due to the fact that an end user can't load software on the device without paying Apple first. So developers will have to be very careful on what they port to the OSX touch platform.

2) It's one more unnecessary lock-in. There is no reason Apple needs to prohibit tinkering and installation outside of the iTMS since most people will use iTMS anyways.

3) No persistence, no undocumented API's, no accessories... Apple still keeps all the goodies to themselves.

4) Apple as the gatekeeper... I don't think I need to say why this is a problem.

5) $100/year just to load custom code onto a tethered iPhone. $300/year for in house apps.

And of course, this is on top of the fact that you are paying through the nose for the Apple way of life. You pay hundreds of dollars for the device and then you get the honor of paying every month for a locked in cell provider or pay for basic updates. Now you get to pay for every application that you install as well.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

I'm gladly sticking with my N800. It does a lot more than the iPhone or iTouch.

*But*, I *do* wish the touch-screen were as smooth as Apple's. I am *not* talking about "pinching" or tapping to get a column, or the other cute tricks (though I like them); what I'm talking about is the same stuff we do on the N-Series: scrolling and tapping.

What I would most like as an improvement in the N-Series (and I don't know if this is a hardware of software issue), is for the scrolling to be smooth and fast and *consistent* and for the Tablet to know if I'm trying to Scroll or trying to Select or trying to Tap. On the NIT, frequently I try scrolling with my finger and I end up accidentally clicking a link instead. The iPhone and iTouch are much better at distinguishing what I'm trying to do.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

GeraldKo,

Try scrolling with two finger, much less likely to be misinterpreted as a tap.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

I had an interesting discussion with an iPhone user about how long they intend to keep their device before upgrading they don't intend on keeping their device longer than 2 years! So, based on how long people intend on keeping their iPhones and how much they spent on them here is just a simple break down of how much they are spending.

$400 iphone, upgraded after 2 years = $880 or $36.66/month before taxes and fees.
$400 iphone, upgraded after 3 years = $1120 or $31.11/month before taxes and fees.

$500 iphone, upgraded after 3 years = $1220 or $33.80/month before taxes and fees.

So I can pay off my $350 n810 in 11.2 months by NOT getting an iPhone. The n800 at $230 can be paid off in 7.5 months. Hell after 3 years I can upgrade the nokia and STILL come out ahead.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

I'll say it again. The n8x0 uses mobile data that you STILL pay for every month. Here in the US everything has contracts... if you want to fart in your own home, you already have a 2 year contract.

When you upgrade your iPhone, you also do NOT renew your contract. It specifically states, and was clearly explained by AT&T that no contract extension will take place if you replace your iPhone with a new model.

The WiMax tablet is also going to have a monthly fee and contracts.

Or you can buy an iPod Touch with no contract and enjoy the applications for $299/$249 + $20 for whatever 2.0 software comes.

------

and lol at this thread :( I was just excited to talk about the SDK and I got trolled by the open source freaks into arguing about Apple vs. Nokia again :(

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

I dunno. If GPL is not an issue to a Mac user then why would it be seen as a negative. It only matters if it matters to you. iPhoto not GPL? Could care less. iTunes not GPL? Could care less. GIMP GPL? I could care less (and don't use).

Of course when we bought our Macs we knew that. So again, if it's not a problem for us, then why would we see it as a negative. In any event Mac users can run any OS they choose on that Apple machine they bought. Choice is good right?



Agreed. Background apps not running in the background sucks. I think even the Newton did that. But I think this is short term and may change with the touch rather than the iPhone. But that's a guess

You're repeating yourself.

hmmm as opposed to that 70% of more money than any developer was going to make anyway? So if a dev. can make 10 bucks a month off there app they come out ahead $20 bucks a year. If that's too hard, perhaps the app, you know, sucks.


Well sometimes we pay for what we get, no? I can buy some cheap socks. How long till there are holes in 'em. I can buy cheap shoes, how long till they kill my feet or fall apart? I can buy an N800 and wait and see how long it takes for the mail client to work right, or the RTCOMM software to make a call right or......

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

Oh apparently background apps are possible. Its just a guideline that Apple has implemented, and that you are able to get exceptions. (Like AOL's AIM app will likely function in the background).

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

wait till the n900 with wimax come. It will the iphone/touch away.!!!
The point im trying to make is that anything can happen tomorrow. Apple just has this habit of annoouncing things with much show off but nokia just delvers. lets talk now. There are not that many apps for apple but there are many for it's. Ofcourse it may change in the future..... if apple a newcomer can do so much in mobile space just imagine what nokia can do.

nokia is the king have no doubts

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

this is the itt forum, what did you expect?

im sure if you fired up a similar thread on a iphone focused forum one would get a mirror image of this thread...

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

You think the average iPhone forum reader is even *aware* of the Nokia Internet Tablet line?

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

Nope. As of now, very different target audience. :D

But tso's response to sherifnix is on the spot. This is a catch-all section for competitors, but don't expect it to be an insulated bubble. That would be silly. :p

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

It's interesting to see everyone's insecurities pop up in this thread. I have both an Iphone and an N800. The Iphone's interface is a wonder, to be sure. It should be the model for every touch screen device to come. It's affirmed a belief that was started for me with the N800 and OS2007: The stylus is a crutch, and should be eliminated as much as possible in touchscreen devices. This means re-engineering the interface from the ground up, not just making scrolll bars and icons larger.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

yep, the stylus is a crutch, but its also the only way to click some of those links without blowing the page up 200%+...

as for insecurities, i would not be surprised.

electronics are no longer just a tool. and for that i think we can thank marketing, spinning of anything from the brand of flavored water one drink, to what one wear and drive as a mark of what kind of person you are.

and apple, for one, have made that a art form with their pc/mac ads among other things. but its funny to note that people like the pc character more then the mac character...

that said, me and others here is probably reacting more to the "iphone is the second coming of christ" mentality then the device itself. problem is that as geeks we try to argue on features and capabilites, while others argue experience of use and style.

in the end its the age old "nerds" vs "jocks" kind of thing...

the trick i guess is to find a way to coexist.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

do you even think that there is an iphone forum????????

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

I have no contract, prepay, and free low-speed cell data. For this I pay about $10/month ( on average ). The speeds on the data sucks, but for the few times a month I'm not in range of a usable WiFi and desperately need to check wikipedia it does just fine.

I own a Mac and it's an open platform. I can download Xcode and develop applications without Apple's permission. I could install Linux on it, but why? The iPhone/Touch platform is a significant departure from their other platforms in terms of openness.

The iPhone is a wonderful device, it's the perfect example of function and elegance, but it's frigging expensive. It's far more expensive than I'm willing to pay for what is, in essence, a toy since I have no real need for many of the features.

Sure I could buy a touch, but that won't pair with my BT DUN for cell data when I need it. I also feel like the touch is the "red headed stepchild" in the Mac family being the only one where you need to pay for basic software updates. You can bet they will continue to handicap the Touch to make sure it's never a real competitor to the iPhone.

The n810 has really filled my needs without another contract or monthly fee. Having played with the 770 I have also seen incredible evolution in the software for the device. I'm also planning on feeding back enhancements to the community as I find them ( and there are so many to find ).

The SDK is a disappointment, in my opinion, it's far too restrictive to allow real interesting development. Sure it will be great for games and basic productivity apps, but Apple still can't even make their flagship Safari stable on the platform.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

Hell, I come here to talk about the iPhone because there is intelligent people. I hate talking to most iPhone users :) I bring up the SDK and the only thing they can relate to is, "DOES THAT MEAN BEJEWELED IS COMING OUT?".

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

ah, virtual "bling" on the "bling phone" ;)

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

Safari is very stable brontide. In my experience it handles websites much better than my n810 did. There was never any mouse over issues, and scrolling is infinitely better on the touch. I suspect the people that whine of crashing are trying to visit broken myspace pages or something.

I'm tired of taking potshots at the Nokia software, but if anyone here thinks the browser, email or RSS programs are even remotely polished then I don't know what to think of them at this point. Its 3 years of broken progress and sidegrades. Yes there is improvemnts but its seems there is a lack of direction or focus with the product.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

We all have to admit that the iphone changed the game. Anyone who denies that is an idiot (sorry if I offend anyone but it is true)

Apple has done something great. It's not as open as we would like it to be but it works and the integration with the operating system is top notch. There is no fiddling around to get things to work, it just works.

The iphone does what it was advertised to do and the SDK will make it an even greater device. I remember when the iphone was first announced, lots of people embraced it and lots of people said it was all fluff. When it actually came out, it blew away the competition.

There are articles and articles about how every mobile phone competitor was knocked off their feet, how they are scrambling to put out iphone clones.

I don't know, if we just look at the data that's out there, it's pretty clear that the iphone, in its niche, is the best. The n800 allows you to do alot but not without headaches and heart ache.

I'm a proud owner of the n800 and use it daily as a music device (i use rhapsody alot). I've been using Canola as well for managing photocasts, podcasts and listening to my private music collection. The youTube plugin that's coming out should be great. My problems are in how I have to jump through hoops to sync my n800 with my calendar, contacts, etc.

All that being said, I'll be getting an iphone soon. I look forward to syncing it with iCal, iphoto, itunes (via their extensive audio/video podcast library). Also being able to play videos that play through itunes will be awesome.

We really shouldn't be comparing these two devices.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

I really hope that in light of everything going on in the scene right now, that Nokia does do something amazing. WiMax will be a great addition but I for one would be more interested in some more stable applications and support for the tablets. We'll see what happens...

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

ok, as i see it, theres much uneeded bashing of apple, personally i like the itouch/iphone ui way better than the stock maemo2008, apple has hype to live up to, so they do more with their stuff, and so its better, nokia is sorta nuts in a way about some of these things, they churn out inovations every minute it seems, and each new one take priority, so you get a landfil of halfbaked or worse half finished things, second, when you compare these things always the itouch and n8x0 because as you keep on saying its NOT A PHONE
now as much as i love my n810, and i really do, its great, i use if often, though honestly i think my productivity may go down sometimes (internet is very distracting) the apple products really show the sheer willpower of steve jobs being put to work, when he puts his mind to something, mountains move [thanks to the reality distortion field (which i think is a good thing, helps get things done and noticed)]
now tablets have potential because they are modifiable freely, but potential is just that, unrealized
iphone/itouch= realizing
now who wins? the genius who sleeps all day, or the smart guy who works all day
so there's a reality distortion field, if there wasnt one, who would believe the mountais would move in the first place? get over it, it helps them
nokia is more powerful, without doubt, but it has had to compete, and that weakens power, where apple basically competes with microsoft, and barely at that, it just does its thing, and it gets power, just like that, cause its a legend
nokia is just nokia, it's about as well known as motorola, even though it pwns moto at phones
k rant over
just felt that people were ganging up a little unfairly... ah well

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

the funny thing about the iphone and the touch is that it was jobs that killed of the newton in the first place. hell, palm got started by a ex-apple employee because jobs didnt see the value of the concept...

for better or worse the current apple is in many ways a upscaled steve jobs. the ipod even had its equalizer tuned to his preferences i think...

good or bad, hell if i know. but i think its one of the few tech companies today thats so controlled by one person.

but i honestly would want to see what kind of device the iphone had been if it was woz and not jobs that had control. something tells me it may be quite a different beast...

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

Give that man a prize!!! :D

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

Haha..thank you thank you...hold your applauses please :)