Re: The Nokia N810 - WiMAX Edition
 

As far as I know there are some Wimax trials on both side of the big ditch, and plans to roll out country /state wide this spring. In some parts of NL Wimax is available, and I understand Sprint is rolling out on the Eastcoast of the US.

1. Can somebody provide an update of the WIMAX availability in the USA?
2. What would be the advantage for an NIT with WiMAX compared with an ITT/bluetooth linked to a mobile phone with UMTS or another 3G connection?

Hope somebody can give some info on this?

Thanks, Abel.

Re: The Nokia N810 - WiMAX Edition
 

It is what it is, and for cellular data access, it doesn't "suck".

802.11N is picking up steam. No, Wifi isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

Somewhere in the $40-$80 range. There are a couple announcements from early 2007 hinting at something like $55. This may or may not have changed.

It should be fairly obvious. No need for a cellphone/only need to carry one device, no Bluetooth-imposed speed limits, potentially better access terms than 3g, etc.

Re: The Nokia N810 - WiMAX Edition
 

does not the current firmware support sdhc, or have i missed something?

Re: The Nokia N810 - WiMAX Edition
 

He means fullsize SD (as opposed to Mini or MicroSD).

Re: The Nokia N810 - WiMAX Edition
 

Disagree.

Both are wireless broadband, and that is all what counts for the consumer market.

WiMAX in Europe is provided by Internet providers, although cellular providers may (did/will) join.

Of course there are fundamental technical differences between WiMAX (G3 and up to 50 km) and Wifi. WiMax should be an improvement, but currently there are still concerns on interference, range, and the centralised concept. We 'll see.

Regarding the technical differences: both alligators and crocodiles are ugly animals and both with $ and € you can buy a beer; ain't that true !

Abel.

Re: The Nokia N810 - WiMAX Edition
 

Fine, but you're replying to my post out of context. OppositeOfIgnorance's question was to whether WiMAX would be replacing Wifi at the consumer level (i.e. for home and business wireless LAN access), which is obviously does not.

Erm, not really. In a general sense, yeah, technical specifics tend to not to be important the market, but they really accomplish two different things. Wifi is a consumer-level short-range wireless LAN standard that has also been tasked to provide semi-fixed access at the city and neighborhood range (potentially as an ISP of sorts), while WiMAX is a long-range last-mile and mobile-broadband access standard that wont be used for personal LAN access in-home.

They're two very different things (despite an evidently consumer-confusing similarity in name).

Yes, if you see the wikipedia article on WiMAX, it is being offered as a last-mile alternative to things like cable and DSL as well as for cellular data access, but this doesn't make it similar to Wifi.

Yes, they serve two different purposes.

Re: The Nokia N810 - WiMAX Edition
 

There are no dramatic changes in Nokia phones too. And people love to buy it :p
My next phone will be a OpenMoko Freerunner. Now I know what I like (Linux, one device to take with me) and what I get (a developer and not a consumer device).

Re: The Nokia N810 - WiMAX Edition
 

But we here are talking about mobile computers..... and in this day and age..... it is really hard for me to see any other device having the same hardware for 2 whole years and counting.

Nokia desperately needs a move on.

Re: The Nokia N810 - WiMAX Edition
 

It's time to learn how to count. <_<

January 8th, 2007 -> March 29th, 2008 is 447 days or 1 year, 2 months, and 22 days, which is nowhere close to 2 years. :p

Re: The Nokia N810 - WiMAX Edition
 

I mean by the time the n900 is released it will almost be thereabouts!

Re: The Nokia N810 - WiMAX Edition
 

Yes, you're right!

Re: The Nokia N810 - WiMAX Edition
 

Maybe, maybe not. I'd personally put it in Q3 this year, which is more like a 1.5 years. Either way, I don't think the delay merits quite the exciting you've given it. Consider that there aren't any OMAP3 devices on the market yet, and the closest one to relaese (the Pandora) is still months away.

It's really nowhere near as urgent (or late) as you make it out to be. :)

Re: The Nokia N810 - WiMAX Edition
 

You have this impression simply because we shipped very early top notch hw: even the "old" N800 has an OMAP 2420 @ 400MHz that is still not available even in the latest S60 phones.

The only possible upgrade would have been 2430, which mostly could be interesting for the improved DMA engine, but that's it.

AFAIK atm nobody (not even TI) has fully working support for linux on OMAP3 and anyway the silicon is still in the Engineering Sample stage.

Well, announcements are made only when there actually is something to announce, but if you want to have some insight about what is going on, you can follow the linux-omap mailing list. But being silent doesn't mean being asleep ;-)

Re: The Nokia N810 - WiMAX Edition
 

Thanks for the heads up. I am very very passionate about nokia and i really cant stand it when other companies are really investing a lot of effort and money into this platform which nokia actually founded. From what little news i see and the way this platform has been handled i think we need to put much much more into this platform.
Seeing all these bugs in the OS and the way the platform is being adverise i cant help but think that this platform is very low on importance on nokia's radar. just look at other companies(apple for example) they are really pumping effort and money into this platform. With nokia's world wide reach and being the undisputed leader i just want to see more and more development so that nokia continues to be number 1 in the mobile field.

"But being silent doesn't mean being asleep ;-)"

Unfortuantely as a regular user of the forum i feel that more and more users are getting frustrated by the lack of commitement(more due to assumptions due to a lack of announcements and lack of advertising.) from nokia to the users. Just look at the number of complaints and unresolved bugs. They really are a little too many for comfort.

Re: The Nokia N810 - WiMAX Edition
 

This is something where the only acceptable answer should be an official statement. And Quim is the one who should be pinged.

Sometimes I see discussions on this forum that leave me perplexed: why asking questions to eachother or even try to pry them out from the poor Texrat who, like the undersigned cannot and should not make any statement that even resembles a hint or a promise.
Why? Because only few really have the whole picture and actually can give reliable info. Nokia is a company with many heads and even being deeply involved in the tablets, I don't have enough knowledge to give a good answer. So better shut up about schedule/features and try to help with factual information, for what i know.

So, boring as i might seem, the answer is always the same: ping Quim, it's his job to be informed and to be the faceman/evangelist for maemo.
Why bothering with 2nd hand info when you can go straight to the source?
I think it would be much simpler if the forum would act as a catalyst for questions and maybe even complaints (maemo related, of course, not technical support stuff).

Quim is nice enough that I think he could be persuaded to have a periodic get together or Q/A session.

Re: The Nokia N810 - WiMAX Edition
 

Thanks once again for taking the time to answer. What i am trying to
convey is that more and more people are getting frustrated with the tablets. I know there is no limit to our expectations. But what i am talking here is about the basic functions which were advertised it could do. I spend a lot of time here on the boards and there have been numerous threads complaining of gps, os stability, video playback issues, repositories, processor maxing out when doing basic functions like pim, broken apps like the email, metacrawler bug..... and the list goes on and on. These are all advertised things which the end user takes for granted. Yeah slowly some of them have been sorted... but clearly that is not sufficient. there are a many more which are still there. I truly appreciate the hard work of the developers who work hard to make these apps.
unfotunately i am a doctor and i dont have the least bit of knowledge about linux or any thing else... but i still spend a lot of time on the forum(which i should be spending to read for my medical exams:() and try to help noobs with troubleshooting.

This is just my frustration pouring out. Thats all.

Re: The Nokia N810 - WiMAX Edition
 

While not the most content ridden interview I've ever heard, the live Skype conference he did with thoughtfix was very refreshing and a lot of fun.

Re: The Nokia N810 - WiMAX Edition
 

Mmmhhh: E version? With a mobile version I don't need a personal LAN. It’s like a cellular: I can call both my wife in the kitchen or connect to my Desktop or "database-box" upstairs. I expect business networks to remain cable by preference for a number of reasons.

Just for fun: http://www.maxtelecom.bg/index.php?t=0&p=0&lang=en

WiMAX = mid range by the way. The possibility of direct end user access exists and is operational. (Mobile WiMAX). But let's not make all this to strict: probably the different perspective is in your line: "wont be used for personal LAN access in-home."

I do consider WiFI not limited to a personal LAN at home (which it is on the technical level). I use WiFI now (almost) everywhere. This afternoon shopping with my wife I took my N800 with me for accessing the internet in a café. I can use public WiFi in libraries, musea and in most meetings. I did Skype from the Mall in DC, using Smithsonian etc. My documents, Calendar etc. are on Google that is accessible through Internet.

I dropped my personal LAN already last year. Don't need it anymore. But I still have WiFI for my N800. Sometimes Bluetooth to my Cellular or Desktop.
My perspective is from the service level: I see WiFi as a link to the Web, VoIP, Music etc. WiMAX may improve that service.

(As you can see: in the end we all can agree to anything. :p)


Certainly not. Thanks for the link. I Linked trough to the Dutch Wiki and learned that Casema, a (large EU) Cable Firm aims to have a fully functioning mobile WiMAX broadband network operational before the end of 2008. It should also provide VoIP.
A Quote from a Dutch researcher: "The WiMAX E version and UMTS are direct competitors," says Jan de Nijs of TNO Telecom. "WiMAX doesn't necessarily offer different services, but the same services may be cheaper. Price competition in mobile broadband is increasing via WiMAX, UMTS, and its successor HSDPA.''

However they also claim that half of Belgium is already WiMAX-ed. So we have to be careful about this: As you know Wiki is like Meamo: You can't be sure about quality. :rolleyes:

Absolutely….always true of course …Crocodole & Aligator ..

You might want to read this :
http://www.wimaxforum.org/technology...ternatives.pdf


Thanks for your response.

I do appreciate your great contribution and your helpful replies.

Perhaps you could provide some info for: http://www.internettablettalk.com/fo...059#post162059

Abel.

Re: Nokia N810: Wimax Edition
 

Which makes me wonder why the non-WiMAX version doesn't use that space for something else ...

or does the WiMAX one omit the GPS chips? and maybe also the internal data card for storing the GPS data?

Re: The Nokia N810 - WiMAX Edition
 

None of which makes Wifi anything more than a LAN technology. You weren't using one logical network over a wide area. You were jumping from one small network-island to another small network-island. It would be no different from, if you had to use wires, plugging in at the cafe, unplugging and going to the library to plug in, etc. You have to literally change networks for each destination.


WiMAX, on the otherhand, is not a LAN in any sense (personal nor corporate nor public). It is one logical network over an entire area (for now, metropolitan areas, but in the long term it should develop into national areas). It is definitely not limited to being a "Local Area Network". It is more like a cell phone, where you are using the same logical network no matter which service island you're in, and the service islands give you seemless transitions.

That's not merely a technical distinction. It's a user visible distinction. Unless your city has deployed city-wide WIFI, you shouldn't expect to be in the middle of a huge park and get a nice Wifi signal. But you should expect that with WiMAX, once it's fully deployed. You should, eventually, expect WiMAX to give you the same coverage you get with GSM or CDMA.

The fact that so many phones have radios for BOTH should give you a perfect example of how Wifi is not a WWAN -- if it was, then the iPhone wouldn't need EDGE -- it could use GSM for voice, and Wifi for data, everywhere. But that's not the case. The iPhone uses Wifi where it can find it, and then it uses EDGE for places where it can't find Wifi. WiMAX, however, is supposed to eventually give you Wifi speed with EDGE coverage. Thus, Wifi is not in the same class as WiMAX. Wifi is for highly localized service (within a small building area), where WiMAX is for Wide Area service.

Re: The Nokia N810 - WiMAX Edition
 

Okay listen: What I meant was I cannot use WiMax like Wi-Fi (Wi-Fi is wonderful because anywhere I can go, I can pick up a signal and just go with it, without signing up or paying anything).

And when I said "that sucks", i meant for most people who don't have data plans (which I believe is most people, in the US at least), its a bummer because we'll never be able to have easy access a long-range wireless internet connection, (or at least it wont be as easy as Wi-Fi). We'd either have to sign up for 3G or WiMax (and i'm guessing WiMax will replace 3G for companies like Sprint and AT&T).

And General, do you have any more information on the N810's successor? Q3 of this year sounds great. But are there any REALLY substantial features you can think of that it'll possess which will give me enough reason to switch to it from the N800?

Originally, (since my N800's touchscreen is kinda busted) I planned to get another one when the N830/850/900 was released, but then I realized that OS2009 development probably won't exist for the 810 or 800 (since those two will probably be less powerful than the successor).

I consider it a mixed blessing. If the hardware and memory is the same, then it's good because I can get another N800 for very cheap, and I can still upgrade to OS2009 (because if the N830/N850/N900 has the exact same existing hardware, it should work on the 810 and 800).

But if it's the same, then it'll be bad for users who were hoping for a more powerful NIT. But i'm sure by then, there'll be other MID's and UMPC's or sub-UMPC/tablets that they can choose from.

If it comes out and its the same (processor/memory) then i'll get an N800 for probably less than $200 (i'd imagine the price would sink fast).

And if its faster, then i'll invest in it (i'm saving up my money). I'd expect SDHC support, Wireless-N, a faster processor and more ram, and a keyboard. A 3mp camera would be great too.

Re: The Nokia N810 - WiMAX Edition
 

i have a quick question, did anybody know that the n800 was underclocked?
because that seems important to me, because there may be hidden things even now
now on the topic of step 5: it may work fine with the n810 and even the n800, even if they dont quite have the power to keep up, because there may be a modified verson, or it will just increase the power that the tablet has to run on, which means applications wont be universal, but that doesnt mean there will be no os2009 for the n810. and there is no doubt for me that the n900 will have more power under the hood, if you get my meaning.
btw, whats Wireless-N

Re: The Nokia N810 - WiMAX Edition
 

Wireless n is just a faster 802.11 frequency (i think), like G or B.

even if N becomes popular, i highly doubt G will ever be abandoned, hell even B is still widely in use today. and if its exactly the same, then ill get an n800.

even if it did have a 3mp camera, a keyboard, and wireless n, who cares? the processor and ram woudl still be the same and therefore your experience would be largely the same.

btw why the hell is the N800 still so expensive? I've found retailers that sell the n810 for like $300-320, why is the N800 still in the upper $200s? i found ONE for $200, but i'm looking for a lower price

Re: The Nokia N810 - WiMAX Edition
 

Wimax is offered in Canada via Rogers as "Portable Internet". It looks like it has been deployed fairly broadly over the major cities. What is interesting is that the price point of Wimax is on par with DSL / Cable, at $30 for "lite" and $50 for "regular", and the speed / caps are also comparable with DSL at 1.5 mbps / 30 GB. This is the same company that asks for your first born child if you want to download an MP3 file over their cell network.

I wonder what is going to happen next with Rogers? What happens if all the smart phones start getting Wimax chips? I wonder if the iPhone will get one next? Hmm..

I also wonder if I can get some little hand-held bluetooth or usb wimax modem. The one that Rogers sells is this desktop monstrosity that they force you to buy for $99.

Re: The Nokia N810 - WiMAX Edition
 

really? i thoguht rogers wasnt strict - my canadian cousins said so at least, dont know how reliable they are

Re: The Nokia N810 - WiMAX Edition
 

I've seen the N800 for less than $200 on Overstockdealz.com...BUT

I'd rather buy the $219 one from TigerDirect (better rep) Where did you find the N810 for $300?

Re: The Nokia N810 - WiMAX Edition
 

I make it a point to only tease them (and very vaguely) about things that have already been officially mentioned. The funny thing is when people don't recognize what our spokespersons are really hinting at. ;)

Here are good rules of thumb for community guessing games:

-always keep in mind the typical Finnish conservative speaking nature
-keep an eye on the state-of-the-art
-never assume our r&d folks are sleeping or stupid
-connect the dots when you find them

And as always, enjoy the ride. :D

Re: The Nokia N810 - WiMAX Edition
 

Is it advisable to purchase an N810 when the N900 series is going to drop later this year? Seems like the N800 might be smarter, unless we see the prices on the N810 drop as a result of the WiMAX version.


Thanks guys.

Re: The Nokia N810 - WiMAX Edition
 

There has been no date or model number announced for anything after wimax tablet.

Re: The Nokia N810 - WiMAX Edition
 

yes, somebody knew ;)

no, there is nothing hidden

Well known unused features are HW acceleration provided by IVA and MBX.

Then, as I already said in an easter egg related thread, N810 has a embedded ucontroller for the LED (see link i nthe same thread) which could be programmed for doing different effects.

Some of the other chips might give the false impression that there is more, but only because those chips are used in phones too. However nothing is really functional.

Going back to the clock settings, I spent quite some time trying to figure out some other working clock configuration (other than those provided by TI) - I still have a whiteboard filled with clock rates, but there is noeasy upgrade.

Some extra juice could be obtained if certain parts are overclocked when others that would fail are not in use, but the implementation is not so trivial.

But the kernel code is there, if anybody wants to try.

Re: The Nokia N810 - WiMAX Edition
 

if u REALLY want the keyboard and GPS then get the 810. but be warned, the GPS isnt that great and the keyboard isnt that necessary and still not as function as an external bluetooth keyboard.

and the 810 only has 1 MiniSD slot (so only up to 8GB Micro or Mini).

800 right now can be up to 32GB. as soon as they release the 32GB cards, then up to 64. and so on.

and 800 has the exact same hardware. and costs A LOT cheaper.

800s a better value

Re: The Nokia N810 - WiMAX Edition
 

you know, all the complaints about hardware being too slow, could it perhaps also be that the software itself is just really inefficient? I mean seriously, why does it make my n800 choke to display 40 or 50 contacts?

Re: The Nokia N810 - WiMAX Edition
 

So, trying to connect the dots as Texrat suggested: some months ago there were some articles on blogs/around the web about Nokia's new, onscreen, haptic feedback TS keyboard. The demo was running on N800 (or was it even 770, can't remember). My guess is that it will be seen on the next NIT.

Re: The Nokia N810 - WiMAX Edition
 

N810 WiMAX means an update to OS2008 - or is WiMAX support now included, but disabled?

Re: The Nokia N810 - WiMAX Edition
 

See the thread on Diablo from a few days ago. WiMAX support is coming with the next update to maemo 4.1.

Re: The Nokia N810 - WiMAX Edition
 

Speaking of which maemo.org has been down for a while. what are the chances of something in the offing right now?

Re: The Nokia N810 - WiMAX Edition
 

Low. Nokia isn't Apple. :p

Re: The Nokia N810 - WiMAX Edition
 

Damn! I was waiting for a Jobs-esque stage show for the N810W release :)

Re: Nokia N810 CDMA version.... LOL
 

WiMAX falling back to EDGE/HSDPA, maybe--then Nokia could sell it as an unlocked GSM device anywhere in the world. EV-DO and CDMA would be too limited (just the US, South Korea, some parts of China...). There's just no way (in the US, at any rate) to sell a CDMA device without getting the carriers involved.

Oh, and Sprint/Xohm's WiMAX network is supposed to work with any WiMax hardware, with no contract. No device subsidies either, which I think is a better model than the current subsidized cell phone one in the US. I haven't seen any indication of what the plans will run per month.

As for a WiMAX modem for current tablets, wouldn't that just create a bottleneck when transferring data from the modem to the tablet? AFAIK WiMAX is significantly faster than either Bluetooth or USB, so it would make as much sense to just stick with using an EV-DO or HSDPA phone as a modem.

Re: The Nokia N810 - WiMAX Edition
 

I have no idea what you mean by Rogers not being "strict". Rogers charges loan-shark rates for data transfer via "tethering" -- which means if you aren't on a special non-advertised plan, and you connect your NIT to your bluetooth phone here in Canada and then download a 5MB MP3, you can pay hundreds of dollars. :eek: :eek:

This same company will sell you Wimax for $50 a month that has essentially unlimited downloading and a 1.5 Mbit/sec download rate. When mobile devices begin having wimax on-board, the market is going to dramatically shift; I can't see cell providers being able to maintain high data plan rates on the old cell network technologies.

I suspect your Canadian cousins were speaking of the fact that Rogers has "lightened up" recently on people downloading more than the published cap on cable Internet plans. They used to send out threatening letters to everyone, but recently competition in the market has driven prices down and download caps up.