Re: Some things I don't understand
 

My Newbie linux .02 worth.
Fix the libraries and repositories!
I want someone to explain to me why I can't for the life of me install 3 critical libraries(libart-2.0-2, libgnomecanvas 2.0,libgnomeprint2.2-0 for certain apps I want (PAN, etc..) and why does Maemo or Nokia even allow these library not to install. I've tried in sudo, I've tried -f install, red pill, cut and paste, chants, prayers, and promises to lead a holy life and abstain from Alpha hacks and ports, etc... with no luck finding out what is causing the conflict. I 've looked all over forums. I tried linux command lines that worked for some and not for others(didn't work for me). Why????? I waited 10 months for OS2008! the library and repository problems should have been fixed with OS2008. Give me a library and repository fix. Give me more control of my machine, fix the USB kernel, the video codex, etc... Now can anyone help me with my library problem? I really enjoy my N800 and I want it to do more things so that it simplifies and enriches my computer/internet/entertainment/business/travel experience. But I can't until these libraries are installable. Just pm me if you can. Dan

Re: Some things I don't understand
 

I don't know if you've tried dpkg?
AFAIK, dpkg is completely maemo, nokia, and repo independent, so it might be your ticket.

Re: Some things I don't understand
 

Yeah i just reclaibrated my touch screen and i find typing on the thumb screen a lot better with decreased mistypes.
Please try it.

Re: Some things I don't understand
 

ok going back, waaay back, to the start of the thread.

My questions are:

- Why are the repositories more messed up in OS2008 than in OS2007. So much so that "temp until things are fixed" reps were made?!?

- Why can't the app mgr have a laundry list style UI instead of that stupid menu? If I need to turn on/off multiple reps, I have to open and close them individually. A laundry list would have simple radio buttons or check boxes next to the rep name so diagnosing what rep is broken is easier. Sure sure I could always go root, change the text file blah blah blah, but come on, I shouldn't have to. And NO, reading the log doesn't always tell you precisely what rep is the showstopper. Mainly it just tells you what problems it had. I have had a perfectly working list with numerous reps with bad errors (pgp key errors, etc) and conversely, a clean log with no rep errors reported, have a showstopper.

- Why will things install in red pill mode that I need but NOT in blue pill mode?!?!? Normally we are in blue pill mode, we try to install something, app mgr balks that it can't install because some lib is missing. So I have to go to red pill mode and get it or use apt-get (which I hate because I never remember the correct name or how apt-get needs the name to be) in terminal. Why can't app mgr, without jumping through all the hoops, just "get it" regardless??!

- Why can't I print to a networked printer? Notes, PDF reader, image tools, none have a "print" option. Sometimes all I want to do is print a simple text file, usually some short list I made in notes. My old Nokia 6230b cell phone can do it over IR and it's a couple years older than my N800! Sure there is probably an arcane method in cli, but regular apps should have a print or "send to printer" menu item.

- Why isn't assigning apps to filetype easier?!?! I just wanted to assign .cbr files to be opened by Comix app, for example, but it is NOT that easy. Sure you can just, again, go as root, edit the text file after installing dbus-switchboard, blah blah blah but seriously, you shouldn't have to. Even after changing .avi to open with Kmplayer, it only opens the app and I still have to use the open file menu and navigate to the file I initially had to find using file mgr to open it. Same goes for most other apps, like assigning .txt to leafpad. It opens the app but not the document in the app.

- why can't the display of desktop icons be standard instead of relying on 3rd part apps like Idea or Simple launcher? I really really miss Idea working properly on OS2008. With such a nice big screen, having to dig through menus and submenues is just , well bad UI.

- Why can't some applets be resized? I used to use the ITT forum icon as the graphic in my Web Shortcut, Now Web Shortcut is a huge ugly box with frazzled borders that can't be resized. Also why can't applets be locked down once situated. For example, just tapping on OMweather moves it a few pixels every damn time.

I really like OS2008 way way more than OS2007 but...

- battery life sucks now. Full one minute, beeping it's empty an hour later. But oddly, I have been on "replace battery alert mode" for the last 45 mins. In OS2007, I got maybe 5 mins before my N800 would auto shut-off but my battery lasted 3 hours.

This is probably not an OS800 thing but why can't the RSS feed just give me the text and NOT open the web browser and show me the web page with all the stupid picts/ads and flash crap? And what the hell does the "keep for later" checkbox do? I have experimented checking the box (which has a laggy response) and now what? There is no obvious "I want to read what I kept for later, now" section?

As much as I love my N800, Nokia really dropped the ball polishing it's core apps. Everything you get from a fresh flash should have a solid fit and finish. It is as if Nokia has no QA dept for their ITT software, just a " good enough" dept. Either Nokia just doesn't care or their UI dept really really bites or doesn't exist.

Re: Some things I don't understand
 

Uh, because the maemo repositories were basically DDoSed when OS2008 was released? I'm not really sure I understand the question. . . .

To bugzilla! Idealy, this shouldn't be an issue, though, as we should only really have about a half-dozen repositories.

Because sometimes things get messed up and lots of package managers are stupid/lazy.

You can't print to anything, there is no printing framework bundled with maemo. There are community solutions available, though.

Not something Nokia invested any time in, I suppose. I don't recall whether there's an outstanding enhancement request for this, but if not, this is another opportunity to make use of bugzilla.

Because that's not how maemo's desktop works. Another enhancement request to bundle some sort of quick-launch applet wouldn't be unreasonable, though.

Because some applets' sizes are hardcoded.

Obviously you have something eating CPU in the background, find out what it is and fix it—your battery life will improve.

Re: Some things I don't understand
 

This was on my list of items I don't understand, but inadvertently got left off. Thanks for bringing it up!

For that matter, most or all of your items are head-scratchers on the same order as mine. I'm glad you added them to this thread.

Well, OK, there's no printer framework. That explains why no apps have Print commands.

But that just begs the real question. Why isn't there even a minimal print framework?

It's the answer to that question that I don't understand.

(OK, I haven't explored any community solutions. My attitude about that is evolving — "that" being "what Nokia should be expected to include and what I do to make my tablet life comfortable, if not serene."

Roger

PS: I've never even heard of cli. I hope the Linux natives aren't expecting "Oh, everyone who really needs to print would know they can just use cli" (or something like that).

Re: Some things I don't understand
 

Because most people don't have network printers? If you've got a print framework, you're developing something which most home users won't be able to use. Your options for connectivity are limited. Developing and integrating it will take developers away from other things.

Perhaps when USB host support gets more mainstream, there'll be print support for USB printers provided in IT OS; but I wouldn't hold my breath. Printer drivers for hundreds of different printers are difficult to write and maintain and take up valuable room on the internal flash.

If printing is necessary for you from your tablet, there are options - but it's not an office tool, so Nokia can't be blamed for not spending money on something which isn't strategic to the tablets' success.

Re: Some things I don't understand
 

Originally Posted by gigabites:
- battery life sucks now. Full one minute, beeping it's empty an hour later.

One guess is that's it's metalayer-crawler. Lots of us have found battery life improvement by turning it off. I don't know if it existed and acted the same in OS2007.

Re: Some things I don't understand
 

Yep, it was :)

Re: Some things I don't understand
 

CLI is the acronym for Command Line Interface.

Re: Some things I don't understand
 

Is that true though? If I look on the PCWorld webstite I see combined scanner/printer/copier machines for £50 with wireless networks.
Also a large number of people have wireless networks and printers, so thus have wireless printers.

Nokia have just spend considerable resources implimenting WiMax. How many people can use that? Is it greater or fewer than the people who can print to wireless printers?
I don't know, but I know what my guess would be.

What, sending stuff down to a printer? That is hardly any effort. In that case why not get rid of sound - that will take developers away from other things too!

basic support is quite easy though. Assuming it is built in. If it isn't built in there is not much chance of doing anything. You cant really impliment a third party printing framework.
The eee seems to manage it anyway.

I would say it is very important. There are a lot of people to whom it is no use without printing support. I say that as someone who wishes it wasn't so, as I work in electronic publications. The first thing we always get asked is 'how do you print it'

Re: Some things I don't understand
 

I don't know: I'm not in the printer business. I do know that out of the many, many, technical and non-technical people I know; I'm the only with a printer connected to a network at home, rather than directly to a computer.

That doesn't follow, unless you mean being able to print to a SMB-shared printer connected to a full-sized computer.

A good point. One could argue that WiMAX gets slightly more press attention and joint-ventures that being able to print.

I'll ignore the sound point as it borders on the edge of facetiousness ;-) (it's positioned as a multimedia device, after all). However, printing is more than just "sending stuff down a printer". Perhaps that's true, if you want to print plain text in the printer's built-in font: that allows you to eliminate the protocol issue, and you're then just into the transport problem.

However, printing even simple graphics, or even text in a font of your choosing, requires overcoming the transport problem ("how do I get the data to the printer") and the protocol problem ("what data do I need to send to this printer").

I suspect you've never tried to implement the latter: it's often hard enough when you're only targetting one printer; but in a consumer device you'll have to support hundreds of models and variants; all speaking different protocols.

You can implement a third party printing framework - there's nothing intrinsic to Maemo which means you can't install CUPS (say). Indeed, CUPS has been ported. The problems are threefold:

1. It's large. I mean seriously large.
2. Printing to a modern printer requires quite a bit of processing power. So it's slow.
3. You can't print from the built-in apps.

(1) could be solved by splitting the package up into a series of bundles for different manufacturers, but that doesn't help you with (2) and (3). (3) would be helped if there's a built-in printer framework, but there's nothing stopping third-party apps (especially if they're ports of existing software) having a "Print..." menu item which drives CUPS.

Different beast: much more storage, much more processing power, ships with an office suite and "proper" USB ports. It also comes with a proper keyboard: printing's a much more natural fit.

It may be important to you (and others). Personally, PIM functionality's important to me (and others).

We can safely assume that given the budget, staff, resource and time available to the ITOS team they're delivering as much software - at as high a quality - as they can. So, which bit of the existing software stack should be cut out to deliver an integrated printing solution?

Re: Some things I don't understand
 

This is what I mean. If you have a computer connected to a printer and a wireless network, it is easy with basic instruction to print from that device.

Agreed, but is it more important for the usefullness of the platform?

As I have said, i do electronic publishing so I have spent many hours implimenting printing in all manner of systems.
I was refering from an application point of view.
If for instance I want to print something within an mac application, I call the print message on the view. If I want to print in an old C++ program on windows, I make an printing HDC. Obviously these work because the manufacturer thought about this.

and that last point is the symptom of the problem. You can impliment all the third party printing frameworks you want, but without it in the standard OS, there is no way to put it in the application.
Therefore anyone who wants to make something you can print from can't. So wont.

It doesn't need an office suite and usb ports and more storage. The newton could print with 1MB of rom, the palm could print with less, the pocket PC can print with 16MB of rom. My phone can print. What is so uniquely complicated about printing that all of a sudden it is so much harder than it was 10 years ago?

Clearly not pim software, or printing, so I guess just more software to play mp3 files and videos.

And so because they are delivering as much software as they can, they must be right? From the outside I would say they are just running with it to see where it goes, it doesn't look particularly well planned.
I am happy enough, I like gadgets, but I don't think it can ever be mainstream for non-geeks, or people who don't need to be on the net all the time.

Re: Some things I don't understand
 

Ok, searched for a method to kill that sucker. Ok so this is a highlight to more whys:

- what the hell is "metalayer-crawler". None of the threads explain it adequately.

- why is it being a pain in OS2008? Why would something as stupid to drain your battery faster (and in some cases cause sd card probs) be added in OS800?!

- Why can't it be turned off in a simple method other than using cli? An average user wouldn't know how to do that. Gen. Ant says "find what is cause it" ... uh sure, how? most users don't know how. Is there a built in process viewer not cli?

Re: Some things I don't understand
 

What it does and why remove it:

"Reading through the forum, I see lots of people complaining about their batteries draining after flashing to the latest OS2008--it turned out that the buggy metalayer-crawler process was hogging up cpu/ram and draining the battery.

"If you disable the daemon from starting up, you won't have the problem of dead battery. However, the downside is that, as generalantilles pointed out, your built-in media player won't be able to automagically find your media (music, movies and whatnot) residing on your sd cards. You CAN still open your media files manually from within the media player. This is why I'd recommend that you disable the metalayer-crawler daemon. You not only save your battery, but also get more memory space and less wasted cpu cycles. On some forum discussions, some people have reported the metalayer-crawler seizing up 60 MB of RAM and 100% CPU."

and ...

"metalayer-crawler is the media search daemon of the built in media player. You can do well without it "

How (one way):

"Disable metadata-crawler
sudo gainroot
/etc/init.d/metalayer-crawler0 stop
mv /etc/rc2.d/S99metalayer-crawler0 /etc/rc2.d/K99metalayer-crawler0"

The whining part of your post I can't really address.

Re: Some things I don't understand
 

what? the part about why nokia would use something as stupid that takes up to 90% of your cpu? or drain your battery in an hour? And why can't the problem be managed better in a method that is easy and gives the user control? Sorry but that is a legit question and concern.

Re: Some things I don't understand
 

huh? I still get decent battery life leaving the 'stupid' thing running as designed. way more than an hour, never a problem. I'll worry about it if it ever does as you've said. Then I'll do something about it and still be happy.

Re: Some things I don't understand
 

Yes, I've never had an issue with metalayer-crawler in more than 2 years of tablet ownership. It's certainly not a universal problem for all tablet users.

That said, a GUI option indexing method probably wouldn't hurt (though I'm not sure of the best method for keeping this non-threatening to new users).

Re: Some things I don't understand
 

Some points on the recent discussion:

1) I've sent images off the tablets to my networked printer via bluetooth, but it's very crude. No control over the results, just a pure image dump. There is a thread somewhere here where I mentioned that some time ago.

2) On one hand I agree with my fellow rat: networkable printers are certainly becoming more common, and thus more potentially useful. How many people are using that feature is up for debate. I'm betting I'm in the very small number of folks who stuck a USB bluetooth radio onto their HPC6168... but then, I was using hand-me-down jetdirect print servers to network my printing yeeears ago. ;)

3) Bugs are rarely, if at all, intentionally designed-in (that comment was for gigabytes)

4) Any printing infrastructure added to the tablets shoud not care if the means of data conveyance is wifi, bluetooth or usb. But I agree: it should be there. It NEEDS to be there. I have no direct knowledge of any effort in that area but do hope it's at least under consideration.

Re: Some things I don't understand
 

Sure. I get that. I read a ton of problems peope have with their GPS units in the maemo mapper thread. I never had any of those problems either. Same with the Canola threads.

Mostly it's just a show of frustration. Most non developers (normal folk) like me sometimes find simple answers to questions like "what does it do? and can I turn it off" not so simple. Most of the time our frustration is aimed at the faceless Nokia Developers who don't give the same feedback as forum members. To some of us even voting for bugs doesn't seem like it accomplishes much.

But you one of the people I do find very helpful and concise. I tend to use your responses more. Just find the "Diablo will solve that" thing a bit ... I dunno hehe I just hope it lives up to expectation.

Sure. Sometimes we just need to vent.

I just take for granted the amazing amount stuff we can do with the ITT is "pushing the limits" of what the ITT was initially intended to do.

Re: Some things I don't understand
 

That seems like a reasonable answer.

Except hunting for the cheapest printer I could bear to own at Staples in December — for my wife — showed a heck of lot of them had network capability built-in.

OK, Staples is business-oriented. But I'd think that a $69 price will put a lot more network printers online.

Plus, I'd say that people with Internet Tablets are more likely to have network printers (than the general populace) simply because they are already WiFi-ing and you've got to figure the NIT they own is probably computer number 3 or 4 in the house.

Roger

Re: Some things I don't understand
 

Any printer connected to a Linux (or other *nix) box is a network printer too..
(which means that even my retired father has a network printer)