Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

I agree. The main reason I went with a tablet in the first place was an attempt to get away from a device locked to a particular service by a particular company. I am fairly successfully using SIP via hotspots without being chained to a particular provider.

While I am sure integrated cell hardware may interest a lot of people, I have zero interest in it due to the crappy protective duopolistic cellular market I live in (Canada) and hope that Nokia doesn't forget about that part of the market. I would eventually be interested in upgrading to a tablet with a faster CPU and a better camera but I wouldn't waste money on integrated cell hardware.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

I've read technical details about a not-to-be-specified USB 3G stick. You know, meant for laptops.

When powered on 3.3V for WCDMA the Txoutput of 22 dBm with mA slightly under 500. For EDGE, MCS5 it'd be between 250 and 400 mA. GPRS actually uses more mA than EDGE.

This counts for one specific family of USB 3G sticks, not for al. I don't claim they're an indication of any kind.

When idle however, the devices uses about 50-70 mA. Completely shutting it down (to standby) might on longer run be worth it. Top optimize battery life that is something to be looked into IMO.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

I Like every thing but 3G I don't have the money to pay £10+ a month for that. why cant they just stick the wifi and bluetooth. The hd camera would be nice the one in the n800 is rubbish!

wont all of this extra stuff just push up the price tag, the n810 is all ready too expensive!

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

You're not forced to buy the device.

Consider my situation. 4 major telcos provide 90-99% HSDPA coverage in the whole country. There is no WiFi in trains. There is WiFi on train stations. Open wireless is in decline, WEP is no option (== illegal). Add to that, WiFi is not everywhere, little to no control over bandwidth or latency, and doesn't support roaming. Now lets look to WiMAX. Only 1 provider right now, providing full coverage only in the capital. Furthermore, WiMAX is rolled out in rural areas where deploying DSL, cable, or optical fiber are not a profitable option.

Elsewhere I notice these FONatics making mouth to mouth commercials for FON. OK, thats PUN, but it doesn't allow (near) 24/7 connectivity. It doesn't allow my weather info to be updated on the fly. No, no. Instead I need to walk past a FON AP (or open wireless AP, or crack WEP, or smile with all cuteness to some stranger). Need to phone? Errr. You arrive on some obscure AP and got 5 new voicemails on your SIP account. Mind you, logged in on SIP account on random AP w/o encryption.

3G outside of country is often expensive however if you can find a good deal for that... (I've found some, called iPASS).

There are no viable alternatives except some claim WiFi (CT2/DECT-like) or WiMAX (not rolled out well yet but if its rolled out and you're happy with the area coverage it might indeed be your best bet to get free from the shackles of telcos). 3G is the worst of all evil. Especially compared to normal GSM.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

With 3 PAYG you can just pay 50p on the days that you do want to use it. I think Orange and Vodafone have similar "daily" options for a pound.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

ARJWright's questions and comments inspired me to post this on my company blog (no sanitization necessary; links omitted):

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Between that post from texrat and one of my last editorials, i am feeling like i know what is going on. Guess i better start looking for work ;)

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

I think a NIT with integrated HSPA would be nice - if I could do away with my cell phone and just carry a NIT and use VoIP then I would be set. Of course, until Canadian mobile companies offer reasonably priced data plans it doesn't matter much for me.

The biggest problem I have with my n800 is that along my travel route and around my office, there aren't really many open WiFi access points so I can't use it for it's primary use most of the time (pretty much any time except when I'm at home, in which case I could use a desktop computer). Of course, as I said, this isn't so much a problem with the n800 itself as it is with the service providers - I would gladly tether to my cell with bluetooth if it weren't prohibitively expensive.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

And here I am, still wondering if Nokia will optimize and ship the codecs & Maemo updates for the N8x0-series to make (SIP) video calling practical...

The crappy VGA cam is *good enough* for that purpose (only), but that killer app never seemed to get much love interest from the management and now it may well be that they're fully immersed in optimizing (?) Maemo 5 for the new hardware and it's 770 all over again, except with a larger user base. :rolleyes:

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

I'll chime in with my 2 cents on this not so unexpected development.

1) I find it quite funny to read the comments from people talking about the expense of the tablet going up. $479 (retail) is not cheap to begin with and when I compare this to the people over on Howard Forums who spend $550 every month on a new phone its totally Lol-worthy. I know these are two very different markets but for Nokia the N-series have always been branded as premium devices there is nothing "value" about them.

2) The benefit of having an unlocked 3.5G telephony module is simple, if you want to use the HSPA then use it, if you don't want to use it then don't put a SIM in it. The second a GSM module is put into a device doesn't mean that a carrier will get to mess with it. Just ask the legions of NA S60 fans here like me who have used $400-$500 dollar devices contract free for years.

3) I am on ATT, there is a $15 a month plan for *unlimited HSDPA access on my N78. I also tether my N810 every day and have not ever incurred any charges even though I know I am playing with fire on this one.

4) This is my dream platform OMAP3, hardware 3d acceleration, HSPA and all while running Maemo, this has only been reinforced by my recent purchase of an N78 S60 which is the latest and greatest (in North America) symbian phone and it still doesn't hold a candle to the capabilities of my little tablet.

5) Texrat - "skunkworks" sounds so condescending.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

I have seen this presentation and it was very short. Dr. Ari Jaaksi didn't give any details on when the new devices will come out and how they will look like. He only said that they will have HSPA, but no voice. Every other piece of information is on his Powerpoint slides.

More interesting:

On the conference floor I heard that someone from Nokia has asked for permission to present a board prototype of this 5th generation of Maemo device at the Maemo summit next Friday here in Berlin. I hope that's true and try to be there. Maybe they are refering to Nokia's Yannick Pellet who will give a "sneak preview" this Friday.


Markus Göbel's Tech News Comments
http://www.goebel.net/technews/

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

It's not.

http://searchcio.techtarget.com/sDef...14112,00.html#

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

I should add a caveat: I do expect bandwidth and latency to be issues for some customers, at least in the short term. As more resource-demanding packets demand attention, more will be lost or delayed where there are still significant bottlencks.

Going forward, in general I see the employment opportunities to be in:

-fiber. Still lots to roll out (a la Verizon in the US)

-switches/hubs. Still too much legacy equipment in the mix. Upgrades are still required.

-service. As usual. And current service people need retraining.

-writing. Hey, someone has to communicate all this stuff to the masses. :D

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

I have six minutes of the Q&A as video and upload it now to Youtube. 143 MB take a lot of time. Unfortunately I didn't capture the entire presentation because I was busy taking notes.


Markus Göbel's Tech News Comments
http://www.goebel.net/technews/

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

the only good thing I would say about this is alot of people use att and other plans that don't allow tething to phones if we would be able to get smart phone plans for our internet that run like $20 to $30 unlimited then that will be better then the teathering plans out there now that are like $60 for 5GB.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Don't be so sure. ATT has the "MediaNet" plan for their "dumb" phones and the PDAConnect plan for tethering or smart phones. Having a smart device is just as pricey as tethering fees. The only time they've disallowed tethering is with the iPhone (insert big ugly rant of how this Mac-user feels that the Apple iPhone is proof that Apple no longer gives a crap about it's customers and developers).

I've been down the all-in-one road for a few years, but have since switched to a Nokia 6550 and an N800 tablet. It's much nicer. The phone is small, durable, has a good battery life, and goes everywhere. The tablet (without the cell-stuff) was low-cost, has a nice big screen, and I can BT connect without pulling the phone from my pocket. Separate is a much nicer arrangement.

Besides, when a device uses a cellular service, every firmware update has to be vetted by that service to make sure it doesn't "abuse" the network. Additional delays to hardware and software acceptance is NOT a happy thing. I'll be happy with last-years tech on my locked-down cellphone while I play with a modern, constantly-updated, open tablet.

Yah...toss my vote in for being very apprehensive about hspa integration.

- Jim

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

So, probably will have to go and get a N900 :-) On the down side, HSPA means a cell contract? That kinda sucks... Let's hope that the SIP stack gets fixed for VPN connections before the launch of the new tablets :-)

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

HSPA means the ability to have a provider; not all providers require contracts, and you don't have to get one to start using it; it should operate just fine with WiFi and BT like the current tablets.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Texrat love your post http://www.internettablettalk.com/fo...2&postcount=86 it was quite enlightening. VOIP looking more like the senior jock that's likeable :cool: instead of a geeky brother.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Kinda reminds me of this.

Hmmm....

Video of Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

OK, the upload has finished but Youtube is still transcoding the video. It will appear here:

http://www.youtube.com/areamobile


I also got this code for embedding:

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/-PRVkUe5tzE"> </param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/-PRVkUe5tzE" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="350"> </embed> </object>

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

with the CF slot in the Zaurus, which allowed wifi, bluetooth, POTS modem, gprs/gsm, ethernet, CF and microdrive, I/O cards etc, the Zaurus would probably never have become such a cult classic. It's clear the zaurus developers never anticipated that the CF slot would give their product such versatility!
Not only that, more recent models had a mini-A usb socket so you could plug in digital cameras, keyboards etc without needing funky adaptors!

if the tablet isn't going to gain a CF slot, which is unlikely, at the very least fit a useful USB socket with sufficient power to drive a 3g usb modem, PLEASE. Otherwise, as people have asked innumerably, a docking connector would be ideal... model it on single lane PCIe or something, add usb pass through and video pass through!
At present the tablet is very much an appliance, but it could be so much more.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

OTG is a standard, there's nothing funky about it. Besides, you can handle the switching software-side if you want.

This is stupid, 500mA at 5v, say hello to no battery life.

OMAP3 doesn't support PCI.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

USB and TV/VGA output, though, would be manageable; the only question that immediately occurs to me is "Why?". Why output these signals in a non-standard dock connector? It doesn't seem like much is gained over a standard USB connector (as used now), and some adjacent connector for the video, with the option of making a molded double-plug for an all-in-one cable if Nokia does make one. That way you don't have to use some special adapter just to get at those signals.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

I would be happy if they just started fixing the BUGS and documenting those interfaces since they are the only ones who can.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

ok, use a 3G modem with its own battery pack. or, why not have a bluetooth 3G modem in the same form as a bluetooth GPS. besides, 3g modems are getting more efficient, so lets set the limit to say 150mA?

it doesn't have to be PCIe-x1, it just needs to be fast enough to allow you to add more than just a mass storage device or a serial adaptor sort of thing (gprs/3g modem), e.g. video adaptor wotsit.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Because that's not a standard and it doesn't work like that.

Proprietary is bad (lame proprietary docking port). Standards are good (USB).

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

AIUI, the "Sneak Preview" is a demo of the capabilities of a Beagleboard. It won't be running anything like Fremantle (according to Quim this evening, it basically doesn't really exist in any real form yet) and is just a demo of what the hardware announced today will be capable of.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

What's not a standard about it? In my understanding, nothing in the standard prevents having a USB-OTG device capable of sourcing 150 mA, although sourcing more than 100mA does require holding the voltage tighter (+/- 5% out to the maximum current, just like a normal USB host).

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Ah, finally, someone brings up the topic I'm most interested in. There was so much talk today about "Maemo 5" in terms of the hardware...what kinds of news do we have about "Maemo 5" in terms of software? In fact, I was under the impression that "Maemo" had to deal with the OS of the tablets rather than anything hardware related at all? What's the deal here?

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

I am pleased that a new tablet is coming out. I am going to assume that Nokia will give us the ability to turn all radios off.

If like Texrat says and the price is not a lot different from the current models then I don't see the included radio being a problem. Of course I'll not be able to use it. But the other gains (hardware and software) that the device provides alone will make the purchase worthwhile.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

I keep hoping for some mention of the results of the "no bounds" project. Being able to connect my NIT to a large monitor and do real work would be SWEET!

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

If the price is too high in my opinion I'll just ge the 810.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

The thing needs a docking station. With VGA out and additional USB ports for extra peripherals. SOLD SEPARATELY!

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Well, the software has to support the hardware, so the info is related... but it might seem kinda like Nokia wanted to announce something, didn't have a product launch ready, and so worked up a speech about Maemo (software) mentioning the big thing that makes lots of people happy about hardware.

And we've known a lot about Maemo 5, but not the 3G issue, so it's naturally getting the most coverage.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

I don't want to carry a docking station wherever I go. A USB hub would be OK though.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Why? Why not just VGA out and a standard USB connector; situate them all on the same end/side of the device, so that a single gang connector can connect them all (and audio and power), but they can also be used individually.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Good to see there are some people who understand things.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

I though it was a huge let down. the guy from wind river had a much more entertaining and thoughtful presentation.

As a Developer

I didn't get anything from the speech except that the device would be faster. Great, because speed was such an issue in the previous devices. While more speed would be welcomed, it's hardly the glaring problem that I would say... scratchbox is, the poorly documented closed pieces, the quirky MicroB browser, the reboot loops, or the general difficulty of developing native Maemo apps.

I will end up with more platform diversity, and not in a good way.

I don't doubt Nokia's contributions to the open source community are huge, but I still get the distinct impression they "still don't get it"

As a maemo.org community member

Nokia can't just keep throwing out "great hardware" and expecting us to pick up the slack. This time the "great hardware" may or may not come branded from a carrier ( and make no mistake, they will muck it up ). Each carrier will want it's pound of flesh and it the community be damned.

We will have every problem of before and now we will have carrier branded issues to deal with as well.

As a user

One of the points of the n810 was it WASN'T another poorly done convergence device. My n810 is my "digital duct tape" able to perform a lot of free form tasks without too much effort. It is not, and has never been, a good "utility device" like a phone or a PDA. I would be pretty pissed off if my $$$ phone suffered from reboot loops or couldn't tell the difference between a contacts home and work number. In a duct tape device I can gloss over many of the problems because of what I can do as a hacker because I don't expect the kind of reliability that a phone needs to offer.

I expect more from a utility device when it comes to the base system. I did not get any impression from the speech today that the existing flaws with the n810 as a utility would be solved ( say via VM'ing or other, high level, system protection methods ).

When it comes down to it why would I, as a user, buy this device? By the time it's release we will have Android to compete with as well as the iPhone. Both of these other platforms offer a bevy of built-in or low cost applications that have more polish than many of the best Maemo apps.

---

Basically I felt like once again he was sitting up there talking down to the community. He sat up and talked about openness, while being coy on if this new device will contain just a data radio or the full phone stack. He talked about working with upstream projects but refused to state compatibility with existing hardware.

Based on this very limited information I am not terribly excited about Maemo 5 or the hardware that it will run on.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Brontide "gets it" too.