Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

http://www.fanoush.wz.cz/maemo/ has several kernel patches relevant to the 770 (although not so much cx3110x). I think https://garage.maemo.org/projects/kernels/ was supposed to collect all the community kernel patches in general, but I don't see anything there at the moment.

On cx3110x specifically you may also want to include (it'd be nice if someone did) the patch from bug 2504.

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

That's in my opinion a mistake.
Most of the people (at least in Europe) has a single SIM card associated to a voice+data plan, and it would be *really* annoying to switch it between phone and NIT.

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

sorry, forgot to properly mark my sarcasm...

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

Maybe I'm behind the curve here, but the lack of qtopia seems like a glaring omission. Is it DOA or still coming?

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

This is good to know. I hope Nokia can keep fixing critical/security bugs in maemo4 for another 12-18 months, ensuring that a user who just uses the core functionalities (i.e. without using the extras and other repositories) can have a secure and smooth experience. This is the way to show that Nokia is responsible to its customers, and it should not be a big burden for Nokia considering that there are not many packages in the core of maemo4 (i.e. without anything in the extras repository).

I'd like to emphasize the importance of fixing security issues in maemo4. Someone mentioned before that it's OK not to update maemo4 because if it works when you purchase it, it will always work. This is not true, because the device will interact with the potentially untrusted parties in the network. If a security bug is discovered in MicroB or Telepathy, an attacker can craft special packets/web pages to compromise the device, which would not happen when you purchased the device and the bug was not known yet.

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

More like dancing around somewhere way out in left field. Qtopia? I'm gonna assume your confusing it with Qt, which is available in Extras. . . .

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

I don't get it:
Having only one SIM is the best reason why you wouldn't want to have this one SIM within your tablet rather than within your phone. Even if the future tablet had voice call capability: It'd be too big and clumsy to replace a phone. Also, the touch screen is not exactly what I'd be looking for in a phone...

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

Adopting that tone really does nothing to attract people to help out in the community. Just my 2c.

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

What tone? There was a tone?

It is just impossible to shake these trolls. Please, seriously, find something better to do with your time.

Oh, this time there's a tone. Can you tell the difference? :rolleyes:

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

Just look again at GeneralAntilles face when you think he is being grumpy. How could anyone with a beatific smile like that have a tone?

http://internettablettalk.com/forums...ine=1226960772

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

So let me understand: we will have on-board HSPA, but we'll still need to get around with two devices and (probably) two chargers. Moreover, we'll be forced to subscribe a second plan for data on the NIT.
So where's the advantage? Ah yes, we'll spare some bluetooth juice...
mmm... Does it sound so convenient?

I'm doing an average of just a voice call per day (or two). I would be VERY glad about having everything in the NIT and finally leaving the phone at home.

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

the transformation from mole to gan to raving n8x0 eating monster seems kindof apt :)

the smiling face kinda fills in the ??? in the underpant gnomes plan.

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

I'm (mostly) lurking this forum since long time, and I read many times people complaining about your attitude or tone.
You may keep believing they're all stupid trolls or you may start to wonder why this happens only and exclusively to you. It's your choice... :)

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

You don;t have to buy an HSPA card, you can indeed continue to use Bluetooth if you so desire. Personally the two cards fits nicely as I have no data on my mobile phone plan but can get a HSPA card for ~£5/month so I understand.

I don't really want my tablet to be a phone, but to have an always-on connection will be great and really useful.

YMMV of course ;)

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

lol perfect...when you think GA is being rude to you look at that smiling picture and your day will brighten up immediately.
(GA does a lot of work for the community for free so he is much appreciated by many of us)

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

two devices, chargers,... yes, most likely. the same way my digital camera and my tablet are two devices and have their respective chargers each. nothing extraordinary here.

2nd data plan: probably no. i have my HSDPA-phone with me, anyway, and as long as i can connect via bluetooth (and i hope a lot i still can), i don't see why I should subscribe to a 2nd plan. so it's nice to know I could insert a SIM if I wanted, but I guess I won't. (depends on what A1 offers, though. if it's really, really cheap, why not?)

One thing is completely out of the question, though: that a tablet could ever replace my phone. too big, too expensive, breaks too easily, can't be with me all the time. These facts won't go away even if Nokia adds GSM voice calls.

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

You make voice calls with your tablet (skype, gizmo). You have a SIM card in your tablet. You have HSDPA on the box. You cannot make voice call through your SIM plan. That's doesn't sounds logical to me.

You're in Austria too? I've A1 as well. Doesn't seems to be so data-oriented so far.

Me, and at least another poster in this thread would leave our phones at home. As you said, it's nice to know I can make that call if I need.

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

Given the current roadmap/schedule for an "N900" and the development of the mobile market right now, who knows what they'll offer when the N900 is out. (After all: A1 is going to launch HSPA+ in june 2009. They'll have to support this launch with a more data-oriented portfolio.)

(Writing this I'm beginning to wonder if the N900 will support HSPA+...)

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

The kid in The Omen smiled, too.

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

Actually there was a poll, and I got picked as an egotistical jerk too, so there. :p

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

See, it's one thing if I'm actually being a sarcastic jerk (it's fun, often productive, and I do it sometimes to keep myself entertained :p), but entirely another when I'm actually interested in helping somebody and I get flamed, which seems to be happening quite a bit lately.

Either way, people need to get over it and stop trying to make every thread I post in about my "attitude". Just keep it to yourself, or PM me if it bothers you so damn much.

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

On to more productive things, has anybody taken a look at some of the other stuff in there besides the kernel and Hildon? A large part of this release is for Nokia to collect feedback on the architecture before it becomes too late to push some changes, so if you've got opinions (hopefully productive ones backed by evidence or experience ;)) then let 'em loose.

All note that this is a really big move for a company like Nokia and arguably a first in this industry. A positive outcome here will do a lot to convince Nokia of the usefulness of the Open Source way.

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

As much as I agree with you umberto.... its just not necessary to say that a fish swims. lol

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

I'd love to do that; what can I do? Is it just a case of picking through the source code, or is there something I can actually run and test? And if there is, what do I need to make that happen?

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

Count me in, as given a T-mobile HSPA rollout in my town, I'd definitely ditch my phone for daily carry, though I'd carry it in my backpack when going where I might need emergency GSM access.

As long as T-mobile has only EDGE here, I'd have to look into pricing again, but I think it's pretty much a toss-up for me whether to keep T-mobile EDGE with the hassle of a separate phone, or spend more for AT&T 3G.

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

On that note, does anybody know how much AT&T is likely to charge for data? I'm paying $20/mo for data now, and I believe it'll only be $30/mo for a data plan for the tablet, but I'm not sure.

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

My work AT&T data plan (while I still have it) is $35 per month unlimited, I believe. But that could be a corporate rate...

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

I understand that the N810 wont be officially supported in the new OS, but will all of the apps have to be recompiled as well, as most had to be from chinook to diablo?

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

Yes, there will be API breaks for Fremantle.

Nothing had to be recompiled, most of the transitional pain was due to the new autobuilder. Of course, now that we have the source packages for most everything, it means we wont have to wait for the developers to recompile next time around (well, barring API breakage).

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

Well the PDA personal plus plan is $30 a month so you would have to assume that would be the rate but the fine print reads

"Prices reflect a $5/month discount for voice and require that an eligible wireless voice plan be activated and maintained on the same device. Stand-alone versions of these data plans are also available for an additional $5/month."
So it seems like it would be $35 a month for unlimited data only with no voice. It would be nice if you could use the medianet unlimited for $15 on the N900.

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

Hrm, that's rather disappointing. I may have to stick with MediaNET. :/

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

I tried to search for qt on this forum but can't because it's too short.

qt wasn't in this list: http://repository.maemo.org/unstable...omparison.html

and given Nokia was supposed to be porting qt, that was awfully surprising, especially since clutter is supported and clutter feels a little... unfinished to me.

Also isn't qt in extras-devel not extras? Thanks for the pointer though.

I don't see extras or extras-devel yet for fremantle either. Granted I haven't even installed it yet.

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

Obviously, because Fremantle isn't shipping official Qt support.

Nokia is porting Qt, the results of which are available right now in Extras. But for Fremantle Qt will only be community supported, the official support will come with Harmattan. This means a Qt Garage project and distribution through Extras (much like Python).

Unfinished how, exactly? Are you referring to the example Clutter UIs available or the actual toolkit? Either way, recall that this is only a pre-alpha.

I didn't make a differentiation because it isn't relevant here. They've got somewhere in the ballpark of 6 months to polish it up and move it to Extras. Give it time. :)

Setting up Extras for Fremantle means setting up the autobuilder for Fremantle, which isn't just a "flip the switch" sort of task. Especially given that this pre-alpha isn't targeting application developers or users, it may take a few weeks to get Extras set up.

Again, these things take time. This is a very early pre-alpha release intended to give platform developers and those folks interested in the platform architecture a jumpstart on Fremantle, and for Nokia to begin collecting feedback about it from them. This release is not intended for application developers, nor is it intended for users. From your questions, it sounds like you're more of an application developer, so you're gonna want to wait for a later alpha release or the beta release around March-May.

This is not a finalized 1.0 release ready for general consumption, so don't expect everything that will be in the final product to be here yet, and don't expect everything that is here to be 100% polished.

If you want to get started with Qt right now, my recommendation is to start with the Qt page on Garage and go from there.

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

No, but that's not the issue. There are certain features in the current firmware that don't work as advertised. The (implied, perhaps mistakenly) assumption was that we would report these and they would be fixed in the lifecycle of the products (note that this is different to how the rest of the industry works, where if features are broken you just return the device for a refund and go buy a competitor's product instead).

The objection most of us are having is that the current device/firmware combination still doesn't work as advertised and it's (now officially) never going to get fixed.

This is orthogonal to the openness argument by the way. I do think that the Maemo team are mostly picking the right battles to fight with the resources they have available. I also think that Nokia has provided a terrible after-sales experience, even after they were promising that they learned from the 770 and this wouldn't happen again. In other words, I love maemo but I don't trust Nokia as a vendor that much anymore :-(

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

And if it gets fixed unofficially, would that be good enough? Assuming we can get a decent-ish Diablo-on-steroids out, you'll have a far better chance of fixing any problems you see yourself, or persuading others that they are important and fixing them en-mass.

I can (sort of) understand your frustration (though I have various devices that have limitations/problems which get very very infrequent firmware updates, which usually cause more problems than they solve too).

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

If you buy a Nokia Internet Tablet and you think there is something wrong with it you can exercise your customer rights - business as usual in the consumer electronics industry.

Filing bugs and get them eventually fixed in updates goes in addition to (and not instead of) the guarantee of the product.

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

Well, AFAIK, the internet tablets are advertised for mobile internet. They do that very fine compared to other mobile devices and even support Flash, which is very uncommon for mobile devices.
The devices were never advertised for mobile office or as a laptop replacement. They can be used for that and somewhat work, but fixing the OS to make the devices more useful in this direction has nothing to with fixing the software to do what it was advertised for.
Most people don't even install any applications and just use the tablet for surfing. Works as advertised.
Firmware updates for anything else than serious bug fixes (e.g. N800 corrupting SDHC cards) are nice to have and actually happen, but they're not required to make it "work as advertised".

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

The problem is that the 770 shows us that even serious bug fixes (e.g. 770 corrupting MMC cards) do not deserve firmware upgrades once the next device is out.

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

It most certainly was the issue with regards to the post to which I responded.

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

This is a good question to ask as far as data plans. ATT has the media net unlimited plan for $15/month that I use on my Nokia E71 and N95-4. Win/Mo phones and Blackberry phones and iPhone (or anything with a qwerty that they sell that they consider a PDA) are charged $30/month for unlimited data. These plans are coupled with voice plans. If you look at their web site they only only truly have ONE plan that doesn't include voice and that's the DataConnect plan designed for laptop HSDPA cards and they charge $60/month for that. I would love to see a $15 or $20 plan but it may be that the only way to add cheap data is to add a line to a family plan for $9.99 and add the $15 media net plan to it for a total of $25 plus taxes. But by the time the "N900" is released ATT may have changed their plan pricing so we'll have to wait and see.