Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

Good that you did not notice any difference with the screen size. But if it looked so good on a 3.5 screen how many times more nicer would it look in a 4.1 or greater screen.

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

Because I like having my GPS on foot, too.

Really, the N810 is almost ideal for me all around and I usually don't mind its bulk. In fact I don't get why so many people get so hung up over it, and I still laugh at the old race to get cell phones so thin. At some point size reduction means a sacrifice in usability, but again that depends largely on use case. But trim the N810 a bit, add an *option* to plug in a WLAN radio card as I can with a laptop and I will be ecstatic.

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

Exactly.

I don't want to have to carry this "other device" besides my Phone. My phone should be able to do all of the things those "other [pocketable] devices" do, where those "other devices" are:

• Mobile Phone(*) (with voice, SMS/MMS, and WWAN data)
• Pocketable Linux/Unix computer
• Pocketable Internet (email, IM, etc.) device
• Pocketable full-feature/experience Web device
• Pocketable PIM-type device
• Pocketable Media Player
• Pocketable Game Player
• Pocketable GPS

(* included because, depending on your perspective, the phone might be the "primary device", or the "other device")

Any solution for my pocket where I have to get some or all of those functions by carrying "another device" is an insufficient solution.

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

Aha! I like that ~4" part. Very diplomatic of you in treading a middle ground ... but that's what we should all be doing instead of being so vociferous about 3.5" against 4" on a device none of us have handled. Now on I am going to call it a ~4" screen even though I know the exact screen size. ;)

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

IMHO there's still a big show stopper with current technology: the battery life time!
It's currently not feasible to have all on one device because the batteries run emtpy too fast.

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

Yeah so does everyone. But all the above things mentioned are better on a bigger screen. So why not have an option to have a device with a bigger screen.

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

Yes, I do agree - how much nicer would it look on a 7" screen - just imagine (but I am drooling with the thought)... but why oh why didn't Nokia make the tablets 7" in the first place ?

Because for a nice pocketable Tablet form factor 4" was considered just perfect by the Nokia designers.

Similarly for a pocketable form and use as a Phone form factor, a 3.5" (or ~ 4" to quote Texrat) is an ideal form factor as considered by Nokia, Samsung, Apple, Motorola and other phone mfrs.

Yes granted for those who are not looking for a phone in a tablet - your main quibble can be that why include a phone and drive up the prices, lock down the device, etc etc.
But the main point seems to be stuck at why a < 4" screen on the new "phone" device ? Lets get over that - as that is a part of the best form-factor for a phone (and we know the N900 is going to be a phone).

Its about time we accepted that yes - Nokia has decided to bring out a Maemo phone first rather than another Maemo tablet (which might come later). So if that is accepted, then I think we can now all agree that for a phone, a 3.5" screen seems a good enough fit and not that noticeble a downgrade (in fact I wouldn't want to hold up a 4" or > 4" screened phone to my ears).

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

Not everyone. There are definitely people who argue against the single device approach, and, for example, insist on having their phone be separate from their tablet.

Oh, I definitely agree that I'd rather have it on a 4"ish screen. But, in my experience of moving from a 4.3" NIT to a 3.x" Android G1 device, I haven't really noticed the loss. The main things where I might see it being a problem are:

1) Car GPS
2) E-Book Reader

And, frankly, I don't do either of those ... and if I did the latter, I wouldn't do it on a 4"ish screen, either. That's too small for me. The smaller kindle is really the minimum e-book reader I'd go with. That's really something I'd apply to my non-pocketable device (so, a Maemo convertible tablet netbook would be better suited for that, to me).

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

I'd say..leave the Garmin GPS in the trunk (assuming it's not baking temperature) since both the iPhone and Nokia suffers from dedicated POI mapping navigation wise. (Finding alternative routes or finding a Starbucks) But if it's basic navigation the n810 or IPhone can easily replace it. For gaming the iPhone does it decently but I'd still prefer a PSP or DS anyday.

My problem with those solutions has always been this thing called battery life. I'm always bound to overuse the game player aspect of a device which leaves the battery dead for when I need to use the phone. Which is why if I'm going game I carry a dedicated gaming device, the other features can easily be combined into a phone (given enough storage size and decent specs)

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

It is absolutely good that nokia is releasing a maemo phone. But all signs are pointing towards the discontinuation of the tablets. I understand that it is not official but we gotta work with what we have. For some of us it is a big disappointment since we were following this forum for tablet type devices.

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

I can do the following with an hp pavilion ze4365us laptop. Why can't I have this kind of uninterupted usage with everything?

2nd battery is charging in a battery charger or is already charged.
Battery inside device is getting low.
Plug powered power adapter into device
Swap batteries
Unplug power adapter from device
No rebooting or hibernation necessary.

What is the big f*ckin' deal?

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

If the problem is battery life, and not gadget functionality, and you're willing to carry a second box ... why not carry an external battery charging device, like a Tekkeon or U2o?

The Tekkeon MP3450 is only a little bit bigger than carrying a 2nd device, you only need to carry it when you're worried about power, can easily hide it in a gadget bag if you carry one, and it has adapters (some included in the base unit) for all of the listed devices. The MP3450i has a different set of included adapters, but I don't think it has support for USB charged devices ... and there are some other devices in that series that might apply as well.

Smaller than but without the HUGE expansion in power, is the Tekkeon TekCharge MP1800, which includes chargers for NITs, and has optional adapters for things like PSP, Garmin, Nintendo... and can charge USB devices (like HTC phones).

I'd much rather carry an external battery for a heavily used device than carry multiple devices.

(my other strategy is that I make sure I have not only a charger in my gadget bag, but a charger at work and at home ... so I don't need to keep winding and unwinding chargers at my common locations, only when I'm at non-usual places)

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

This kind of thinking is very much applicable in this time and age where smartphones are becoming smart devices not limited to only 1 task: phoning. They can do more and more, and the general public wants this. They get more features for the same price a device with less features cost a few years ago.

There is this turning point where the amount of money invested in a dedicated device for a specific purpose (example: e-book, photographing) is worth it. Sometimes there is no other solution available. While that might be software related (missing driver or bug in driver, no port available, proprietary protocol) I usually see the reasons are hardware limits of the all-in-one device.

For many people a camera on a phone is good enough, but sometimes a SLR is really required for professionals. I imagine for some people a dedicated GPS is required. If you also take the screen into account you cannot simply optimize for stylus input, finger input, keyboard input and then make it good for browsing, e-book reading, both inside and outside in direct sunlight. Tough decisions are made during hardware design.

So we see people who'd like additional devices besides their smart device. Usually its professional items which are expensive, not casually used by the average individual. They don't always carry the additional device but my oh my, every photographer has this situation where they just wish they had their SLR with them. Having the smart device with them allows them to at least have the option to make a photograph at all. Ofcourse the quality is then not acceptable, but there might be situations where the fact you have a picture is more important than the quality. Imagine having a GPS device, as basic and archaic as it is, it got you to a point where you weren't lost anymore.

I believe also that eventually we are able to have a touchscreen more flexible to be applied. For example by making it detachable, or by having the smart device able to dock easily, or by having it able to talk over HDMI or BlueTooth. There is no reason why every device must provide its own input abilities which directly interface with the human instead of indirectly via other devices.

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

Guys, you totally lost focus. The last X posts are carbon copies of those in certain 1000+ post thread. So please, have mercy on us who are taking a break from all the speculation and focus on the topic. Thank you. :)

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

When the thread gets repititive it means there is not much to talk. I guess we need to wait for nokia or someone else to talk more to have some intellectual discussion.

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

True that solves the battery problem but it doesn't solve the problem allnameswereout pointed out. That often the dedicated devices themselves do the job better then an all in one device (much like a dedicated GPS does GPS better than the n800/n810 an all in one device). Usually I'm carrying two devices (cell phone which goes on belt) and the tablet. Three if I want to play games (though this is getting rarer and rarer as I get older due to time limitaitons). Or if I'm taking pictures that day I carry a camera. Even the iPhone (which can do all these things combined) can't do things as well as each device individually.

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

Is the touchscreen better because it is more accurate or less pressure is needed or....was there multi-touch?:D

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

ah, a question... thanks... I was getting bored and thought I'd opened "the other" thread by mistake <sigh>

Better is really hard to justify... the device was new (ie not 6 months of sticky fingers and/or screen protector) and that may be all there was to it - after all the N8x0 touch is pretty damn good.

But it did feel silky ;)

No evidence of multi-touch at all.

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

Did you get to use the speakers? How are they in comparision to the current ones on the tablets?

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

It's a resistive screen.

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

Resistive screens can have multi touch as seen by the Stantum demonstration

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

Yeah, but you know which way my tolerance skews. :p

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

So 3.5"... that's the same size, but better resolution, than my iPhone screen.

I know people are upset about the screen drop down; however how is the screen quality compared to the N810? And also, has task switching been mentioned? Hardware or UI based? I think it was asked, but I didn't see an answer yet... so forgive me if this is a repeat.

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

Yeah, but if I did I'd be too busy being an international criminal to keep you guys updated. :P

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

Aw. You weren't willing to do that for us!? ;-)

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

True, but these screens require an extra wire/output. I don't think they are generally available, and are probably covered by a Stantum patent too.

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

Sadly we didn't quite have time to test them....

However you may like to know the test we had in mind :

I got downstairs after installing Qt and realised my laptop had retained the ssh connection into the device so we dug around and were all ready to upload a recording of johnx saying "I want to eat a cat" or something equally obscure.

The acceptance criteria for "good speakers" would have been if we'd been able to see them actually jump out of their chairs :cool:

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

Fully agreed. I only use my GPS for geotagging photos and updating my location on the map. In general, it adds context to the things I do with my tablet.

I'd never use one for car (or flight) navigation... those take the next right instructions are nothing but a bother when driving to a new place as you miss the big picture of where you are completely.

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

There is a lot of gradation between those two extremes!

Indeed. My current "load" is:

• N810
• Bluetooth GPSR (because the N810 GPS is pants, I just don't have the time to wait half an hour or more for a fix nearly every time)
• Compact camera
• HSPA Modem (nominally sold as a "phone")

And if I'm driving my 5-year old TomTom GO, because the Navicore^WWayfinder app is a joke (and I'm a paid licence holder). And sometimes even the SLR, although that's a different use case and I have to make an explicit decision to carry another case, so the compact ends up getting a lot more use simply by virtue of being there with me (which makes its quality or lack therof that much important).

Some consolidation of the above wouldn't hurt, so yes HSPA data is very welcome and by all means do put a proper GPS chip and navigation app in this time. But I don't see myself abandoning a perfectly good Lumix with decent controls, optics and sensor (for its size) in favour of a phone-type camera. My modem also includes a 3.2Mpixel camera but I never use it.

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

I agree there are shortcomings, but the N810 performed remarkably well when I travelled last year. Other than a couple of address glitches, the volume level being WAY too low (bugged) and the slow start-up time, I found it very useful and in fact indispensible.

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

What about the thickness of the device did you feel like your holding a small but fat stapler? I think my N810 is too heavy and it requires two hands, could you use this device to surf with one hand (so you can steer your car on the freeway with the other?:D)

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

I could say the same thing about phones.

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

Well, I thought it will have multi-touch. Maybe the final model will have.

Does the SDK have multitouch?

At least that is an indicator if the device itself (the hardware) will have (one day) multitouch.

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

Highly unlikely for the n900, but i expect future hardware to support multi-touch judging by the way peter@meamo responded to a similar question.

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

Not quite, but the HIG mentions "two-touch". This probably won't work in the SDK unless you have a touchscreen.

Re: Some hands on time with Nokia's Maemo 5 Development Device
 

Those of you who got to see this development unit back then:

If you compare it to the photos we saw recently, what do you say? Is it similar in terms of keyboard layout, hardware buttons, overall look&feel? Or do you remember differences?