Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 

And we shall never know why:

:)

But, that said, it isn't critical information to know...

Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 

And Italian suits, which are the best! :)

Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 

In English:

http://translate.google.com/translat...istory_state0=

Tim

Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 

What if instead of using directional keys that Nokia took a page from what Palm did with the Pre and made a gesture area that supports directional-pad like movements, and can be combined with the accelerometer to do even more "physics-bending" movements with the device. Would that make half of you (those that want a physical directional pad) happy?

Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 

Bad for gaming. Just keep the damn arrows.

Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 

Last I checked... a cell phone radio version of anything never was as cheap as a $15-25 difference. I'll be damned before I buy a device with a huge markup just to have a radio sitting inside like an throbbing, sharply infected appendix I wish I could have removed.

Wholly agreed. GOD.. is it ever "wholly agreed"

Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 

@danramos: it's what COST them in parts per unit. How much higher they would SELL with the addition of said parts, is a different matter :D
Sure, there's the additional cost of integration, firmware\software development and whatnot..

Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 

In the end, as the person who'll be paying the asking price, what difference does that make? I'd rather be without the flipping piece of crap I'll never use that's raised the cost up so high.

Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 

@danramos: think there's a big enough market for a cellular-less tablet to sustain its lifecycle on its own?

Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 

I would definitly say yes if they were willing to market it differently. Compare it to a ZuneHD which is getting alot of buzz right now and it beats the pants off it in functionality. Hell, market it against the ipod touch. Do the same parallel marketing that apple did. One with phone one without. ipod touches sell pretty well.

Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 

Everyone has a price that they think something is worth; and they shouldn't pay any more for something than that.

If the HSPA capability is useless to you, ignore it. Evaluate the device on everything which does matter to you and see if it's worth the asking price. If not, shrug your shoulders and move on. If you're "right" (in the sense of the market), Nokia'll learn and adapt to meet the market requirements.

If the price point - when it's known - is too high for the features you want, buy another device such as a SmartQ 5 or a new, discount, N810.

From what I can see, RX-51 is going to outsell any individual previous tablet model - and, if we're really lucky as a community - it'll outsell all the previous tablet models combined.

This'll have two advantages:

1. Volume means reduced costs (although by sharing components with phones, Nokia are already leveraging one aspect of their business to the benefit of another).
2. More users means more developers means more apps means more users means more developers... which means I can do more with my Maemo device than I can now.

Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 

@cruelkix: we'll have to see how well nokia can rally the content providers for it.

Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 

hp seemed to think there was a large enough market for dedicated pda's to make the 110 and 210 series of products...

Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 

So did Psion (and Sony and ...). Psion don't anymore. Do HP?

Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 

As stated before, the market, while not as big as smartphones, is definitely there. Otherwise you would not have the iPod Touch, Archos 5/7, SmartQ5/7, Mondi, Zune HD and similar devices available. Ideally, I'd like to see Nokia do something with the Rx-71 akin to the iPhone/Touch split, so both people who want a small all-in-one and those who want a dedicated (perhaps slightly bigger) internet device can share a common platform.

Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 

I have several problems with that attitude. Not the least of which is that I bought into an N800 because it's exactly what I need and want. What I'd like to buy into is the next generation of what I need and want--a faster and more capable version of that device. Not some OTHER device I didn't want. It's a tad hard to 'ignore what you don't need' when it's boosted up the price enough to almost buy two of the previous generation.

Then there's the previous generation. I didn't see fit to go from the N800 to the N810--but if I don't like this painfully expensive appendix I'd rather not have to pay for, you want me to just buy an N810? You're talking about the one that Nokia no longer maintains, right? The one that shares all the same problems with my N800 of a lack of parts, support and everything that goes along with being the last generation to boot?

If this new device fails to do well--will Nokia just drop the whole line and just concentrate on their phones (which I will never buy given my experience with their support in general) or will they indeed go ahead and actually change their products to suit what the customers actually want?

Is it so hard for Nokia to actually make the offending radio a seperate module you could insert into the back like the SD cards do now--you could go out and buy your supposedly $15-$25 radio, if you so chose.. and the rest of us could happily have the same device we invested into all along the way to this point.

Near a I can tell, this thing isn't a tablet.. it's a smartphone. Call it what it is. Stop pretending it's in the same field as a general purpose device like a MID or the previous tablets. By that token, I'm still disappointed that Nokia hasn't released a new tablet that I can upgrade from my N800 to. (Sorry.. but N800 to N810 isn't an upgrade.)

Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 

Ah! You have information about the price of the RX-51? Do share!

Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 

Right. And my point is that at the time, there was a device that had the features you want at the price you were willing to pay for it. You don't yet know what price RX-51 will sell at, so you can't (yet) make a conclusion about its cost-value balance.

You don't owe Nokia anything, and lack of sales is going to count more than arguments on a forum.

No, I want you to decide what device to buy based on what meets your requirements. I ain't your popa.

Yes. It's been explained multiple times that attempts at modularisation at a mobile device level have failed for technical, logistical, pace-of-change and physical reasons.

If you want modular; go to Bug Labs. If you want a MID, buy a MID. If you want a high-end Maemo device and RX-51 meets your requirements: buy it. If you want the hardware of a SmartQ 5, but you love Maemo, support Mer.

Options is one thing you're not short of, and no-one is forcing you do to anything.

I don't know what "it" is. Nokia haven't announced it yet. Based on the leaks, rumours, speculation and stuff we've gleaned from the SDKs I'd say you're right - this is probably a phone. Running Maemo. A mainstream phone from the largest mobile phone manufacturer on the planet, running Linux, with an active community already and an engaged manufacturer; which ships with an X Terminal out-of-the-box (I guess).

This could get Maemo mentioned in the same articles as iPhone, Android and webOS. Hell, new apps for Fremantle will - on the whole - end up running on Mer, which'll run on existing N8x0s.

Right. You're disappointed, I get that. Why are you trying to convince everyone else to be miserable too? People for whom RX-51 isn't the right device don't have to buy it. We've already seen evidence of another Maemo device in the pipeline; wait for that/don't/buy something else; it's your money and your choice.

Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 

@danramos: You pointed it out very clearly in your last post... RX-51 is not a table, but a smartphone.

Now, isn't it contradictory that you demand that Nokia pulls the GSM radio out of their new smartphone, yet to be announced....?

I guess that you are in fact asking for a quick launch of their RX-71 instead..

I think the strategy is there, and the plan is very good, IMO. Launch a new smartphone based on Maemo for the general public and generate a wide user base. Then launch the MID and benefit from the multiple sinergies.

Plus, the Ovi store is getting ready for Maemo, so is Maps and other services... This has been in the works for over a year, I don't think that Nokia is going to piss any previous Maemo customer off. It is just that It's not ready yet for launch.

Are there any rumours about RX-71's hardware, BTW? I bet It will be a real monster... :)

Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 

PS: I highly doubt that the new Maemo device will fail to sell well, even the 5800 has had big success in several european countries as some have said here... :)

The RX-51 will be a big success and the RX-71 will launch a mere three-six months away from it, that's my "prediction". 5800-N97 combo worked well with such timing..

Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 

I'm willing to best it'll be much more expensive than the same unit would have been without the cell phone radio. :) Do YOU know what it'll be?

You've pretty much nailed it--what I wanted is a new tablet.. not a cell phone. That's the basis for my disappointment. Here's hoping for a new TABLET to come out sooner than later.

Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 

I think you misunderstood the comments. :confused: There was a time when it wasn't clear that the next device would even have a keyboard. Nokia would not disclaim that the device would not have an iphone like form factor or D-pad, etc.

I don't know what you mean by "balances." Very few current generation devices (other than Maemo devices) have keys or other hardware dedicated to zoom (as distinguished from keyboard shortcuts or gestures) - Smart Q5 and TouchPro2 and Touch Diamond2 AFAIK. Nokia was signalling big changes between Maemo 4 and Maemo 5, so it was not clear that the menu key would remain essential (even if it is in fact essential) in Maemo 5.

Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 

I think that the potential launch of a RX-71 will depend on the success of the RX-51, so, it's better for us to stand together and try to push the platform forward the best we can in our own particular ways.

Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 

Oh I'm all for the maemo platform--I'm just pretty sure I'm not going to want to be behind this device. Particularly if I'm told to buy into a contract with a carrier (particularly one that isn't the one I use) or else told to pay a WHOLE lot more than it's actually going to be worth to have this dangling appendix I had to pay to carry around.

I know some of you don't like to hear that repeated, but I think there's also some of us that hoped Nokia would do something Internet-Tabletty--not cell-phoney. The maemo platform itself is quite fine and I'm increasingly happier with what the maemo group is doing. Don't mistake my disappointment for Nokia as disappointment for maemo.

Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 

Has Nokia been known for locking people into a contract with a carrier? I don't know, I'm not from the US and I've never owned a mobile phone. But my impression from reading the comments on this forum is that Nokia doesn't tend to play that game (and some people here say that it has hurt sales in the US)...

It seems to me that a Linux phone would be even less likely to be locked-in than a closed OS system, especially if the whole telephony stack is open, from the modem driver upwards. Looks like the UI is the only thing that won't be open, but we know that from the SDK.


http://qole.org/images/oFono-architecture.png


Again, I'm no expert here, and someone will probably point out that it is easy to lock down a phone even when everything is GPL like that...

It just doesn't seem likely that they're going to be locking anything down, considering the direction Nokia is going with Maemo.

Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 

I think what we're going to see is Internet-Tabletty just with the added bonus of not needing to tether it to a cell phone to use it as it was intended (like a lot of people, myself included, do).

Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 

Not necessarily, but carriers will lock you into a phone (i.e., US carriers typically don't resell unlocked phones, which means if you have an AT&T SIM card, it won't work in a Nokia phone from T-Mobile).

Tim

Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 

Though there is an FCC investigation but I don't know if it'll change anything.

Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 

I think all these kinds of tying arrangements are inherently anti-competitive. How can a small carrier compete? Just by virtue of its not being big, companies like AT&T and Apple (or Verizon and RIM, or ...) can make deals that exclude the small carrier. The small carrier ought to be able to compete head-to-head with AT&T on what they actually offer, on a piece by piece basis. All the carriers ought to be forced to offer a pure pipe, varying if they want on how much bandwidth is used; then they can all go head-to-head. Not forcing that on the carriers is inevitably bad for the consumers. Likewise allowing the carriers to force more than just pipe access on the consumers is anti-competitive.

If you had real Adam Smith capitalism, with hundreds of carriers, then some carrier would independently decide to offer a pure pipe as a means to compete against the ones who don't. But with only several carriers, there's an oligopoly and none of them find it worthwhile to compete that way, even if it's what customers most want. Instead they differentiate themselves by choosing what combination of crap they force on the consumers, and they make believe that's real competition. For many years, the American system generally has shown no interest in interfering with oligopolistic/monopolistic behavior, but it hasn't been so bad for a hundred years as it was under Bush. The current Supreme Court tilts pro-monopoly, too.

Maybe under Obama things will get better. It's a better FCC for one thing. We can hope (with more reason than we had a year ago for hoping).

Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 

Are those really in the same market as your supposed tablet though? 3 out of the 5 quoted devices are media players 'first', before 'tablet' computers. All those 3 also depend on some sort of DRM in their content delivery mechanism. AND.. out of the 5 samples you gave, there are only 2 real and 'proven' products.. which are both within this so-called the DRM-ed media player category: iPod Touch and Archos. Well, I don't really know about Archos' numbers.. but at least they've managed to sustain and rehash their product lines for a few gen.

Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 

Great post from Ryan of Ars: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/...o-5-device.ars

I hope he attends the summit again this year.

Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 

Have no fear, for every company that tries to lock something down. There's plenty hell bent on unlocking it. :D

Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 

Sometimes, just sometimes, the attitudes here bewilder me...

...people ask for better tablets, then complain when features are added in.
...people ask for standarization and better tools, then complain when the old stuff that can't work with the new tools aren't supported.
...people ask for a device to do more, cost less, and use fewer resources, but...

...just sometimes, I feel like when I come here, the psychology of the user base undermines the intentions of the users to actually see that they are getting what they want.
---

Again, there's nothing in Nokia's history with locked/unlocked devices that stipulates that they will offer this device only in a locked condition in all of the regions that it will be sold. I'd recommend reading the FCC filing again for the RX-51, and considering, just for a moment, that you might have more options for purchasing this than you think.

Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 

I'm completely the opposite of some people. A tablet is useless to me unless it has a 3G radio in it. I seriously WANT a Zune HD but I may just end up skipping it in favor of the rx-51 just because it has 3G.

I mean seriously, there's no reason NOT to want a 3G radio in this thing. It replaces everything in my pocket: tablet, phone, mp3 player, gps. This is PERFECT.

And you can NEVER know that you'll NEVER use it. You may have a change of heart in as little as 2 weeks and crave that radio in it for some reason. I pay extra for things that I think might come in useful, even if I doubt I'll use it.

Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 

I think the problem is is that you're treating the individual opinions and desires of separate users like some sort of self-contradictory community consciousness.

It's really as simple as different people wanting different things.

Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 

My personal experience with Nokia handsets in Spain is that they have always sold them unlocked first, then subsidized through one or more carriers (those are SIM locked, except those offered by Orange).

I have always purchased them unlocked but only because I wanted to have them soon after launch, but then again you pay a premium and also It will cost a lot less a couple of months later..

AFAIR, Nokia has never played such silly game here.

Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 

I've got a contract with Orange UK at the moment, I needed it unlocking so that my missus could use it for a few days while her phone was going for repair. I rang Orange and they unlocked it for about 10GBP, it took about 5 minutes to do - so I don't really see a big issue with "locked" phones, unless it's locked in the iphone kind of way.

Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 

and thats why i "love" the usa == world that seems to be the norm in this forum...

still, i would love to see a phone-less device myself, as i have a perfectly fine phone already.

Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 

Three things:
a) I have an S60 phone and I must say that if that is all Symbian can offer Symbian is already death. (have not seen N97 running). The system is unresponsive. I don't blame it. It's been a long road for symbian and it never had an older brother to help it improve multitasking like windows or linux for desktops and servers.
So that means Nokia NEEDS Maemo to run in a phone. At least one.
b) The problem is always the same. Maemo should run in two very diferent devices. One of them is a N97 sized tablet so you can carry it around with all your best software on it. If that has a phone it is ok for me (in fact I prefer that to have a phone). So RX-51 is a great step in that direction.
Then, there is another device, that can be as big as an small kindle, that connects wiressly to the phone and let you make all things you'll do with it but without taking it away from your pocket. That device don't need to have any phone capability (like N810) yet it should extensively use bluetooth to work with the phone so well you simply forget it is not a phone. A little bit like what happens with 3G Internet connection in N810. Once you paired N8X0 with a phone it actually has 3G internet built in. It becomes easy, fast, and transparent as if it had a SIM on it.
That device should have a much bigger screen, loud speakers, nice integrated keyboard, ... Much more portable than a Netbook and usable as a phone, as a PIM and as an Internet Tablet.

3) If RX-51 is going to have phone capabilities that means it is going to have a good integrated PIM. Hope they build it having very clear that that PIM should work seamesly as a SIM phone and as a virtual phone attached to your real phone using the protocols we alreardy have: bluetooth headsets, headphones, bluetooth PIM, bluetooth data, ...

Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 

SIM locks are only half the story. Subsidised handsets also tend to have useful features crippled (UK example, or google for a seemingly infinite number of stories about crippled bluetooth in the US) if they don't quite match the operators' revenue models.