Re: Two extensive previews of N900 prototype
 

Sorry, I got misleaded by Forum Nokia device specs mentioning 768 MB of NAND.

http://www.forum.nokia.com/devices/N900

That's fantastic!

GeneralAttiles explained it to me yesterday. It is a truly great news.

Thank you guys for all the comments and corrections. I will update the preview today with all the new information I got.

As I wrote, the preview was supposed to be just an introduction, and it will be replaced with a final, full review shortly, so I'm really thankful for all the information which will help make it really extensive and 100% correct!

That's what I am seriously worried about, too, and I'm discussing it with GeneralAttiles on the My-Symbian Forums. Life is more complicated than we usually think and there always will be some developers stubbornly making their software to install to "/", there will always be other repositories than Maemo Extras not really taking care about only hosting "proper" packages, and there will always be users who will do completely unpredictable things. For instance, if the "guideline" is that apps bigger than 500 kB should install in /opt, I can imagine someone filling up his rootfs with lots of packages of 300-450 kB each (which will require installing several hundred of them, but who can be sure that the N900 won't be that popular in a year or so to have that many small applications? and I know people who have that much software installed on Symbian phones). That's why I suggested to GeneralAttiles that besides what's being done on the Extras repository level, there should be some additional "protection" on the device/system level.

On my SW version, it seemed that "smart dial" worked with the hardware keyboard only, i.e. in the landscape orientation only. Actually, when I used the hardware keyboard to start typing (which opened the Phone app with the "smart dial" input bar) and then closed the keyboard, which caused the Phone app to switch to portrait, I could continue typing using the virtual keyboard, but it wasn't possible to open the virtual keyboard directly in portrait mode, as there is no text field to tap on, and the virtual keyboard opens only when you tap on an input field...

No.

Thanks! I learn something new everyday!

Re: Two extensive previews of N900 prototype
 

Just checked. You're right. I though it was on his own chip as the Specs were stating "768Mb NAND chip"

Re: Two extensive previews of N900 prototype
 

You make it sound like if it was introducing a write every 5 seconds, no matter what (and then conclude it'll wear flash).

It is not. If there are no writes there's no log to write. In fact, it'll try to combine writes done between the 5 second period, which may actually help reduce wear.

My worry is the unneeded performance hit.

Re: Two extensive previews of N900 prototype
 

Can you confirm this? That page is non encyclopedic at all (for a start, it does not have sources), and there have been thousands of reports about it using different models.

Re: Two extensive previews of N900 prototype
 

Apparently the SDK and dumps refer to a certain IMGSGX535GLDriver (I can only offer googling as references, though :) ).

Re: Two extensive previews of N900 prototype
 

it sounds reasonable provided the 3Gs uses a samsung cpu/gpu package rather than the TI Omap cpu/gpu package as used by the n900.

Re: Two extensive previews of N900 prototype
 

Please confirm the release date and will this device coming to ASIA before X-mas?

Re: Two extensive previews of N900 prototype
 

in the case you use Windows, do you know if Norton Ghost itself makes backups of flash drives? because in this case, you could attach the N900 to the PC and make the image/restore... :D

making a little research I found this (look at half page):
http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT...00101617144125

dunno anything native for Maemo or other OSes.. hope it's of some use anyway. :)

Re: Two extensive previews of N900 prototype
 

the first one is really well done, i can tell you that...detailed and clear..and with many photos..good work my-symbian!

Re: Two extensive previews of N900 prototype
 

Really seriously, that's when I start worrying. Usually, when I hear phrases like that, it's from a salesman, and I walk away. In my experience, "don't worry" means start looking around, it won't work like you're being led to believe.

As my-symbian pointed out there are many ways this might become a problem for a typical user.

Tell me that any app that gets through Extras QA has a hard limit on the total size of files it can install or (at some later point) write in /. Tell me that a user will have to jump through multiple warnings and hoops to install a 3rd party repository. Even given all that, some users will blindly click and install anything from anywhere.

I'm sure that a new user will be quite happy to hear that their new device crashed because / is full, even though they checked and saw 500+MB free where the programs as supposed to go. When they post a thread complaining the response will be that "you only had 65MB free on / to start with, you didn't know to check that because we don't mention it, because you don't need to worry about it".

I'm just saying that it's there so we shouldn't ignore it, otherwise there'll be a new thread every week where someone did something stupid and filled up / because they weren't worried about checking it.

Re: Two extensive previews of N900 prototype
 

QUOTEfranklinn;336455
The MySymbian review is far too lenient ! Nokia may well have written it.

be careful with accusations like that, My Symbian is a hero in my book (imagine how much time spent putting that together )until proven otherwise

QUOTEfranklinn;336455
I think I'll stick to my brilliant N810 and trusted Symbian phone for now.[

No one forces you to do anything

Re: Two extensive previews of N900 prototype
 

im really hoping for ATLEAST 1GB of application space (games count too right? (..because if Homeworld gets ported, it will chew up 500Mb...and i need my Homeworld on the go, 65Mb space would kill me)

Re: Two extensive previews of N900 prototype
 

Thanks for the great preview, Michael. If I might make two suggestions if you are going to update it: I think you should remove the USB host mode stuff in your preview until it is proved it is possible, rather than keep it in in your preview until it is proved it is not possible. You run the risk of misleading or disappointing potential buyers, otherwise.

Also, on the repository bit, you mention that the user can add loads of repositories. Although this is technically true, I imagine for most of your readers, this will be their first Maemo device (and possibly first Linux computer), and the general advice for new users is to stick to the Maemo Extras repository, at least at the beginning. I appreciate that it is good to emphasise that this device isn't limited to a single App Store, so maybe say something like "By default the device comes with a 'Maemo Extras' repository enabled, which is where most of the extra software will be found. You are not limited to this repository, though, and can add other repositories to the system. However, it is safest to stick with the Maemo Extras repository, at least until you are experienced on the device".

Re: Two extensive previews of N900 prototype
 

Well good luck with that. Noone is forcing you to switch to the n900. Personally I found the review well written and balanced. I dont think Michal went out of his way to be a fanboy. He posted pictures and videos untouched and gave us a great way of knowing the quality of a major component of the phone.
He has since come back and given us his experiences with the battery etc and his roundup of the software was in depth and straight shooting.

I really dont see how you could fault the (p)review.

But as I said, noone is forcing you to get an n900, if you are happy with your 810 then more power to you.

Re: Two extensive previews of N900 prototype
 

Drink !

Anyway, from my talks with Nokia folks I'm still under the impression this thing is still pretty fluid, the "don't worry" means something along the lines of yes-it's-an-issue-but-we-are-aware-of-it-and-intend-to-deal-with-it.

Also, not mentioned, but if still remains an issue or fixed in Harmattan, with the given partition layout cloning/multiboot should be a million times easier than on N8x0.

Re: Two extensive previews of N900 prototype
 

Do you mind filing a bug report. I think it'll be very useful to be able to use the t9 keyboard without opening and closing the landscape keyboard.

Re: Two extensive previews of N900 prototype
 

Your cynicism is certainly productive.

. . . and as I've tried to point out, we've been working to ensure that it wont be.

These users are an extreme minority, you make it sound as if every 3rd user is going to install 500 200KB packages or 100MB of 3rd-party packages from a non-Extras source. This is essentially absurd. Even with the more pressing limits of the N800 and N810, only a very small minority of users ever really hit the wall with space limitations.

We're working to prevent this from multiple angles. I'm not trying to sweep it under the rug, but given the work that's been going on to deal with the limits, it's certainly not a severe enough issue to make it appropriate material for a product preview where the majority of readers will not be equipped to understand the warning and head it appropriately. The likely reaction is going to be "Man, I don't want to buy this if it's only got 65MB of space for stuff." rather than, "Ah, there should be plenty of application space available, I just need to be careful about where I get my applications from." and that doesn't help anybody.

Unless we insert a long explanation about /opt, NAND memory and eMMCs into every preview and review that gets released? :) I think not.

Re: Two extensive previews of N900 prototype
 

Anyway, the perfect place for game data such as 500 MB Homeworld would still be the 20-something GB VFAT data partition. So, don't worry! :)

Re: Two extensive previews of N900 prototype
 

mmmmm homeworld

Re: Two extensive previews of N900 prototype
 

I don't want be an alarmist but I have my doubts about this opt thing yet.

I am concerned because:

• *Some* of the Qt4 libraries are going to be installed to /usr/lib [1]
  
  People will develop in Qt more and more, so there will be popular Qt applications, and the users will want to install them. If they depend on (for example) libqt4-svg libqt4-opengl libqt4-webkit libqt4-gui and libqt4-network, almost 40MB of / will go out.

• It isn't decided yet if Python packages will use /opt (hopefully) [2]
  The most useful python libraries will use ~30MB

But plans could change, so take it with a grain of salt.

[1] https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/q...er/000872.html

[2] https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/p...er/000940.html

Re: Two extensive previews of N900 prototype
 

How about overlaying /usr with unionfs on the 2GB partition, then?
However, good software packages ought to be relocatable. Hardcoding file paths is so last century. :)

Re: Two extensive previews of N900 prototype
 

Why not mount /usr from a partition etched from the 32G?

/sbin, and /bin inits should be fine until the mounting can happen in the startup rigmarole. This leaves / for pure system stuff.

I'm sure there are a number of ways to deal with this.

}:^)`

Re: Two extensive previews of N900 prototype
 

Performance hit?

But yes, I'm sure this won't be a problem in the end... :)

Re: Two extensive previews of N900 prototype
 

Yeah, an aufs solution is definitely something we could work on from the community side. It's not really ready for a prime-time release on production Nokia software however. ;)

Re: Two extensive previews of N900 prototype
 

Mainly because it requires extra effort at this late stage (e.g. unmount the union when applying an SSU) which isn't likely. /opt is a quick, dirty and hacky solution (which allows the problem to be pushed outside the release window) to the overlooked complete and utter fsck-up which is that no-one at Nokia thought about this more than 2 or 3 months before release.

Re: Two extensive previews of N900 prototype
 

+1.

For my own part the limitations of the Note function of my current SE phone has been one of my prime motivators for starting to look for another mobile phone and then becoming aware of the wonderful open maemo/N900 and its predecessors. So although it may be obvious to any current Symbian user, I would suggest that the excellent preview should confirm that notes is not limited in length and can be saved into a hierarchical structure.

Thanks a lot for all the effort involved in publishing this very informative and seemingly balanced preview! :)

Re: Two extensive previews of N900 prototype
 

I used invisible shield on Nokia E90, full body, www.zagg.com, works as advertised. I will definetly get one for the N900

Re: Two extensive previews of N900 prototype
 

Nope. I have found this info on few sites and thought that might be it. We can't know for sure until someone from apple confirms it. Which I doubt will evar happen.
Here is one example:
http://www.product-reviews.net/2009/...wervr-sgx-535/

Re: Two extensive previews of N900 prototype
 

Hi guys,

I've just added another video to the preview:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fymYOITcTiY

and also uploaded the original file to easy-share:

http://www.easy-share.com/1907987836...mbian.com).mp4

Best regards,
Michal Jerz
My-Symbian.com

Re: Two extensive previews of N900 prototype
 

The original file mp4 is considerably better quality than the youtube version - even when watching HD.

Must say I am fairly impressed. Would love to see the first two videos in original format.

Re: Two extensive previews of N900 prototype
 

Can you adjust the video bitrate or is that locked down?

Presumably worst case it would require a third-party capture application, right? Although I would prefer if you could adjust it in the official one.

It gives me so many ideas though. Mounting NFS and capturing directly to my server. I already suspect I will have a go at using it as a webcam over 3G, hehehe.

All stuff I should have been able to do on the Xperia but Windows Mobile software sucks and is nearly all commercial. I wouldn't pay $15 to be able to do these things, but I would happily tinker with open-source software to do it.

Re: Two extensive previews of N900 prototype
 

Theoretical performance != Actual performance

I'll just copy and paste (pun intended) something I wrote in another thread: