Re: Nokia needs to change something ... competition is too fast
 

@Sudkist i really hope n910 shoppers will find a mature phone/device/tablet. many here maybe work for nokia or maemo ... they only talk about what will, how it will, etc ... 6-8 months ... bla. bla ... some, like me, just bought the phone/tablet/etc :D if you know what i mean :D

in 6-8 months, to be honest, i think i'll have a 7" or more tablet (hopefully with a pixel qi display) and my dear n82 ... the more i play with n900 and other phones, the more i realize what a great phone n82

Re: Nokia needs to change something ... competition is too fast
 

Its not just the eye candy, I had a 5800 before the N900 and I constantly got out of memory errors which was frustrating to say the least! S60 5th edition is extremely functional which is great...

The only problem here is the 5th edition looks VERY ugly and is not optimized for touch input making it is extremely frustrating to use... This is not judging the book by the cover, I have read that book and could not wait to put it down and read something more substantial and complete! I am not an iphone or a google fanboy either, I have been enjoying Nokia's for the past year and I now own an N900 and am extremely pleased with it so far - The 5800 running S60 5th does not even come close...

Also look at S60 you dont see too many Sony Ericsson, Samsung or LG phones using S60 anymore?? SE is moving to android and Samsung now have Bada.... That really just leaves Nokia - I hope the Symbian Foundation do succeed and the screenshots posted on engadget recently become reality Fast!

Re: Nokia needs to change something ... competition is too fast
 

samsung is still part of the symbian foundation.

Re: Nokia needs to change something ... competition is too fast
 

The "it's a computer first, phone second" reason sometimes given for poor quality or incomplete phone/contacts/calendar/maps support does not make sense.

If you think it is a computer with "phone features" added on, think on this:

- Calendar is something you do on a regular computer. In fact it's usually better on a computer than on a phone.

- Maps is something you do on a regular computer. In fact it's usually better on a computer than on a phone.

- IM and VOIP contact list management is something you do on a regular computer. In fact it's usually better on a computer than on a phone.

And, ironically:

- It's a great phone! The N900 is excellent at voice calling. Nice UI during the call (not so much for call log and contacts), good sound, good speakerphone, and seamless esy to use VOIP integration (for supported services). As a "phone", in this respect it is a very good device.

Re: Nokia needs to change something ... competition is too fast
 

kryptoniankid17: I was not arguing that Samsung were not part of the Symbian Foundation anymore...

However the only Samsung phone I can think of right now is the i8910...

I would also suggest reading:
http://mobile.engadget.com/2009/11/1...ays-senior-vp/

While there are some good Nokia Symbian phones, other companies seem to be jumping off to OS's with better eye candy I guess...

Dont take this as bashing Symbian - the screenshots of Symbian ^4 look very promising, however S60 5th is somewhat lacking both in terms of the OS and the hardware in current devices. NOK saw fit to only put 128MB's in the X6 however both SE and Samsung put 256MB's of RAM into their Satio and i8910, NOK need to remedy this in new devices especially as they are selling Multitasking as a feature!

Even the N900 only has 256MB's of physical RAM - Google's nexus one has 512MB's... Why??????

Re: Nokia needs to change something ... competition is too fast
 

It is not a computer, it is a tablet, made to be used on the move.

I did last weekend update, and I started to find some of the features that were missing, like texting from the call log.

The phone quality is as good as it has ever been on any on my Nokias, and unlike what you implied, the calendar and map functionnalities are very usable (have hou tried maep with google maps ?).

But until the phone-related functions that we have on most S60 devices are missing, I will keep seeing my N900 as a tablet with phone features more than a smartphone.

Re: Nokia needs to change something ... competition is too fast
 

Officlai Nokia nomenclature is "mobile computer"

Re: Nokia needs to change something ... competition is too fast
 

So is there any consesnus on whether its a phone, or a computer, or a tablet or the last option - a mobile computer ?

Comeon my head is spinning along with all this jargon spin - how does the naming matter so much when the usage is what it is - as a phone and as a hand-held computer (oh no- there I add another name to the N900) .

As far as I see it, its a phone cum mobile computer - just as any other similar competing device is. Whats the point of all this "its a computer first, phone second", "its a tablet not a phone", "its a mobile computer, not a tablet", "its a kitchen sink with a calling device " and all such differentiation again ?

Re: Nokia needs to change something ... competition is too fast
 

For me, this was a rare case of corporate hype living up to reality.

The claim that smartphones are computers has been around for years and has always been a joke. The N900 comes very close though and the clincher is the multitasking. I find that I use the N900 in the same way I use a PC: keeping multiple applications open, switching between them, swearing at it when it crashes .. er ..)

I also agree with jjx that the telephony is very good.

Ultimately I see it as a heaven-sent device for geeks. It probably doesn't appeal to the mass market (though a different Maemo device no doubt could). When people ask me about it (and it does get a lot of attention) I say, "It's Debian Linux in your pocket. It's as good/bad as that sounds." Matter of taste.

Re: Nokia needs to change something ... competition is too fast
 

n95 was, i think, hte first to be called "mobile computer"

Re: Nokia needs to change something ... competition is too fast
 

Long thread so don't know if I replied, but Nokia already has lost A LOT of market share. They went from ~33% of global smartphone market share to somewhere between 14 and 17% (don't recall exact) in 12-months. Why? Primarily iPhone, but also their dated MfE (PIM in general) and generally not keeping in touch with what customers want/expect/demand (yes, customers have the money so they can demand or walk).

What I've seen in bugs and in general. Degrading customers, lecturing customers or saying "don't make useless comments" in bugs/forums, closing things as WONTFIX that are basically on every moder platform, saying something is too complex so WONTFIX yet it is something people want - wants become needs. Many are giving Nokia benefit of the doubt to address the issues on the N900 - what everyone is watching. I can't recall seeing a review that doesn't address some of the fail by saying something to the effect of "we imagine Nokia will address this in an update" - many times they are talking about something that I've seen closed as WONTFIX, pushed to debatestorming black hole or sent for consideration in Harmattan. One or two things - no biggie, but the aggregate of all these things is big and not addressing a good portion of them will work against them. Period. That market share will continue to slide.

What I've seen, or I should say, didn't see in the first major update doesn't look good. They already have a lot working against them in the hardware area: this is a 2010 flagship phone and many high-end phones (yet cheaper than even the new price on the N900) are 1GHz, 512/512, with a lot of the same or better hardware physical specs. And, while subjective I agree, this thing IMO and comments I've received, not a good looking device. Someone the other days made what I thought is an appropriate analogy: "it's like when some car manufacturers thought bringing back the 1950s look in cars is a good idea and most were quickly discontinued because it wasn't except this is like bringing back a brick phone when everyone wants more in smaller packages and a sexy, eye catching look." It's a nit for me and not a major deal other than if I don't wear a belt and throw it in my back pocket, but there is a reason a certain other phone is continuing to grow global market share - it's looks and simplicity. Don't know anyone that has one that the first thing out of their mouth doesn't have something to do with its looks or how easy it is to use.

Wouldn't it be nice to have the underlying power of Mameo for those of us here yet have the convenience of not having to get into xterm to do something that should be in the interface? For me it would. I have no question that if they focused on a few enhancements and increased granularity in settings (something as simple as turning OFF the wifi radio very easily, which was closed as WONTFIX or profile settings so you can set it to vibrate, but not for every friggin email you get) and giving some enhancements like being able to choose how often each email updates independently of each other, disabling/require manual refresh of an email account w/out having to remove it, favorites or speed dial available in phone, smaller contact shortcuts, GET MAPS RIGHT, choose what you want to see in the status area (I know powatool, which is cool, is coming), light for video, etc. would address a lot of issues I have seen complained about out there (and mine). Then take care of a few glaring problems such as BT, IMAP and EAS and now you have something that is on level with other phones.

I know these seem like simple, little nits, but I have many more and others have some I've never noticed. Add them up and it's a problem. Don't address them - do ya think anyone will buy the next Nokia anything? If they just did what I listed, this phone would easily stand out above w/out question. Right now, there is question and why there isn't a review that doesn't say something about "potential" - that means it's not there yet.

What'd we get in this update? Well, let's see, they solved this "problem":

"Drops WLAN connection to Linksys WRT610N after 10-15 minutes"

No votes, only one user interaction (the reporter) - huh? I have 3 WRT610Ns in one house and two in another. I have one in my parents' house. I am on WRT610N 90% of the time and have NEVER had an issue and I keep my power saving mode maximum on two and intermediate on the others. OK, so it references another bug, which was already fixed in what it launched with! Why is it referenced as fixed in their first firmware update? It was closed and verified as fixed (the referenced bug that actually fixed the issue) BEFORE PR1.1 was released.

I was skimming through the PR1.1 wiki looking at what they said was addressed and thinking, "that doesn't make sense - I never had that issue" or "that feature was already there - what am I not understanding" then chose the above at random to get to the root of this. Seems they made a laundry list as their first firmware update looking like more was done or I am missing something here. I'm not going to bother researching everything, but seems to be somewhere around 1/3 of what is listed had nothing to do w/PR1.1.

They get through PR1.2 and if a lot of this stuff isn't addressed halfway into the selling cycle, those giving them the benefit of doubt and hoping for more will realize that's not going to happen - the only thing they can expect are more icons.

You can have an awesome display and resolution, excellent spec sheet, but if you can't do anything but say it has potential, it doesn't mean much.

Sounds negative, but I couldn't be more disappointed in the update I was looking forward to. I got some icons, got browser in portrait mode (this is awesome), lost red pill (I guess not a huge deal, but why?), made bluetooth disconnects worse and fixed a bunch of bugs I never noticed. Many I checked on and didn't have many votes or much activity. Yet, those with a lot of activity, tons of votes weren't addressed, are still swinging in the wind and when a paying customer (each one adds up to market share) expresses disappointment in a bug, they get told to go to h*ll and not leave "useless comments". Wake up Nokia/Maemo, this phone is bound to attract more than nerds so change your modus operandi in dealing with customers. OR, market your phone different.

Disclaimer (because this is what you need to enter when you are a Nokia employee coming to defend another Nokia employee against a CUSTOMER in bugs so now you can gang up on a CUSTOMER without worrying about it): This is my opinion and does not reflect the opinions of Nokia or Maemo.