Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

Nokia didn't care about the PR effect of taking nearly $100,000,000 of public funds for creating long term jobs - just to shortly after close down their factory and move to a low-wage country.

So why would they care about PR effects of something so much more trivial?

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

It's not just a Maemo issue - it affects anyone who has had the misfortune to use a Nokia phone since MyNokia was launched.

I've not used Symbian or Maemo devices for months, but I still get unwelcome SMS, sometimes daily, to all the mobile numbers I used on those devices. They go to personal and work phones, and are intrusive and extremely annoying.

And, this is the real bugbear, not one of those messages has given any information on how to stop or unsubscribe the so-called "service".

I was under the impression that all direct marketing had to include this information?

One thing's for sure, this is turning out to be a real PR disaster for Nokia. The sheer arrogance of the "official" reply quoted in this thread just makes things worse. Are they that stupid that they cannot see their insistence on continuing this practice just makes anyone who has already abandoned their products more resolute than ever never to touch Nokia again? And to actively spread the word to discourage others from making the same mistake?

Looks to me like it's already happening and gone Global:

http://www.mobileinc.co.uk/2010/06/t...s-spam-fiasco/

http://davehall.com.au/blog/dave/201...nokia-sms-spam

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

People, this is disappointing but I am not terribly surprised. Nokia has said that MeeGo OS will be open, but not their UX, apps and Ovi services, which will be "integrated into the user experience." Read this - and think how Nokia means to succeed in the business with the strategy.

http://www.nokia.com/NOKIA_COM_1/Tec...hite_paper.pdf

They will claim to be more open than most and probably be right. I have expressed my share of disappointment at the lack of openness, but it's time to address the situation as it exists. Look at the handset UX after it is released and decide if the community should attempt to provide an open UI to go on top of MeeGo?

This idea of dissuading the corporate machine will not work.

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

...which, again, is not an excuse but part of the problem. - Nokia employees should be allowed an encouraged to make such statements. They needn't say "Ah, yes, I know, everything we do here is wrong and bad, but I can't change it." - no. But what would be wrong with "We at Maemo/MeeGo devices understand your concerns and we're discussing the issue internally. However, please understand that it's not just our decision. There's quite a few others here at Nokia who have a say in this matter, so we can't promise anything. We're not giving up though and will keep you informed."

What ragnar contributed here was basically the "... it's not just our decision" part (or maybe I'm interpreting too much... whatever).
What's missing - and what would be crucial to know - is the "we understand your concerns and we're discusing the issue internally". At the moment, we just don't know if the people we thought we knew even share our concerns.... or if they just stare at this discussion and have no idea why anyone is upset at all.

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

My N900 is a non-US model (from the Developer Device Program) and is running the global firmware. Its box does display the "This is an Ovi device." text and does not include the US in the list of approved countries for the FM radio. Still, nothing about My Nokia appeared during the OTA upgrade and no text message was sent.

I can't see Nokia using the GPS to make that choice, so it seems my AT&T SIM was the deciding factor, much as it is for Nokia Messaging.

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

IANAL, but I'm fairly confident that anyone claiming that some tiny, low-contrast print hidden at the end of the copyright notice on the back of the retail packaging constitutes a legally binding contract will be laughed out of court in most sane jurisdictions. Not to mention that MyNokia is not Ovi, and not mentioned anywhere in that almost illegible print.

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

Yes, and I also pointed out that as they didn't show the T's and C's when I first turned on the phone, and could reasonably have returned it for a refund, it was unlikely to be valid now. I asked if I could return my phone for a refund if I didn't like the PR1.2 conditions -- I got no reply.

I also mentioned that it seemed likely to me that a court might require a rather more active opt-in before agreeing that I had authorised Nokia to physically damage my device so I cannot return it to the previous software version (PR1.1) and not accept the new conditions.

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

Interestingly my September prototype running the Global firmware DID force me to subscribe after installing PR1.2 (while I was located on US soil, using an AT&T SIM), I have received no text messages from the service so far, however.

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

Depends on the court jurisdiction. In the US, some of the most idiotic, counter-consumer shrink-wrap (and similar) terms have been upheld...

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

However legal and 'in the right' Nokia is on this issue, it still doesn't give a representation of goodwill on their part.

Moreover, if this is such a value added service, why not pimp it with a big shiny sticker in front and a clear graphical notice to the user?

Inconsistent messages..

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

Well, he did say "in most sane jurisdictions" :p

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

Out of curiosity, did you flash PR1.2 or install the OTA update? Another possible difference is that my AT&T SIM is more accurately an AT&T Go Phone SIM, though I have a hard time believing that would influence anything.

Also, my N900's phone number was registered with My Nokia prior to the PR1.2 update. Conceivably, my phone could have checked with Nokia servers--via WiFi--during the update process and found I'd already registered. That would be...odd though. Sending text messages for registration wouldn't make sense if an Internet connection with the My Nokia servers had already been established.

I suspect one of us hit some odd, corner case bug.

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

Flashed, since I got it a week early. ;)

Given the bugginess of the whole MyNokia setup on Maemo, I wouldn't be surprised.

I'm not sure if my 5800 ever registered with MyNokia.

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

I was not aware of this. Well then, that makes sense now. Pfsht. What a tool I've been.

People, information gathered from most devices sold by Nokia is invaluable to their business, determines launch dates, schedules, order of countries, number of devices, hell, it is the basis of all Nokia marketing and distribution, design, milestones.

Haha. Not going to be fixed. Do you realize you're asking Nokia to turn off its headlights on a night country road? This information is worth a decent chunk of their income and determines their reaction to market changes. And by "chunk" I don't mean a few percent.

None of those were ever finished. Nokia deals in fireworks and company image. You get attention with new launches, not with good stuff. Shallow, shallow, shallow.

That's why they launch 10 phones a year, that's why the never finish anything. It's more of a marketing boost to launch a new tech than to finalize it. Keep launching, keep attracting attention.

This is 2010. People buy devices like jewelry. Logo on it is deeply important, I've seen people argue about manufacturer while never using anything above Contacts, Last Dialled and the red and green buttons. One can't afford to be out of the spotlight.

Do you really think iStuff would have any kind of market share if they were black, featureless, and Just Worked? No way. Low screen resolution, locked OS, bluetooth limitations, no pen.

The fight is for spotlight. It's no coincidence it's a theater out there, CEOs included.

Carriers are localized companies. They are founded in their respective countries, subject to local laws, and publishing this kind of info in most countries (US is funny) is going to get them deboned. Also, the carrier has this leash that we call radio license. They are not about to tug on that.

If Vodafone Romania sold some of its database to a 3rd party it'd be facing criminal charges and the person signing that paper (along with others) would be facing jail. Say what you will about corruption, but in high profile cases bribing simply doesn't work.

And it's not like it's jail they're afraid of - people escape judicial systems all the time, everywhere. It's the fines that I'm sure they find deeply unfunny. You can't get out of that, because that money goes to the state. If you want to keep doing business, you have to pay (or they take anyway). And it's not like these are people you can pay back later, if ever.

Asking the local carrier simply doesn't fly. They could at most tell Nokia how many they sold, which is bogus, because so few are sold through them. Plus, they get a number, not a log. Plus, no resale, no second hand, no usage.

No, they have to do it, because Nokia is not a company in your country, so there. If you don't like it, whatchagonnado? Ban Nokia? So what, they can afford to lose part of the country, and I say part because people would still buy by order. And back in Finland, well, I hear they are not exactly shaking in their boots.

I'd go as far as to say Nokia values the collection of data more than they value a market. Timing a release and molding their next device to sound like the next iStuff killer (and I stress SOUND LIKE) is going to net them more cash than a single country, with few if any exceptions. Especially a small-sale EU country, perhaps that's why US was partly spared.

Remember, the figures show them per-country market penetration, adoption rate, and per-device, per-OS sales graph. This is the stuff dreams are made of.

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

Quite possibly a violation of Cal. Bus. & Prof. Code § 17529 unless Nokia can convince the courts that they have an ongoing business relationship with the user. The fact that there is a cost to opt-out would certainly not sit well with any jury. Courts have already found that text messaging qualifies under either or both email or telephone delivery.

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

I don't know who "we" would be sufficiently as to say positively one way or another. I have heard several discussions on topics that range close to this, so in that sense I guess I can say that "we are discussing this". I certainly have my own opinions and express them when possible. Then again, there are many hallways and meeting rooms where discussions are had and decisions get made. Sometimes it's just hard to come here and say that I can't say much more, and easier just not to say anything. I hope you appreciate the sentiment, although I know it isn't of much value.

I guess it is a good mental exercise for everyone concerned to put an imaginary Nokia side hat on and think about why Nokia does what it does, for instance in this case of MyNokia. Nokia, Ovi, services etc. What would you do as Nokia... When trying to find and propose solutions the best proposals are of such a nature that are usually win-win, i.e. rather than just saying "don't do this" if you figure out great ideas on how to do things in a way that would please both parties, then those ideas have a much higher likelihood of those ideas finding some ground and going forward.

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

I wore that hat for 3 years. ;)

I know what I did in similar circumstances: pushed hard until people got tired of hearing from me. Sometimes the logjam was freed and sometimes it was stupidly reinforced.

Nokia can and should do better at putting customer hats on. This one was a no-brainer: add an opt-out at the very least.

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

Deal. I don't own hats so I'll use a piece of paper.

"Ok, I'm this hude company and I want stuff from THEM. But, they'll probably want stuff from ME.

What do I have that I could offer to the oafs that would SEEM like value, but cost me nothing?

I know, I'll give them free stuff. Pain free, free stuff.

What do I have laying around? Cool, a few games from Nokia Labs folks. Ok, register your phone and get this stuff free.

What else? Oh, I know. I'm making like 5 bucks off the OVI store. Let's give the oafs a humongous discount, like, 50% for a year. Or on all already-here apps, since they are like 3 that are pay.

What else? I know, ease of use. How about everyone that registers gets this pain-free stuff, like, the ability to use an account based on their IMEI or something to drop files? Like a drop box, but without having to go through registration? Like an online clipboard, or something. They can use it for backup.

Ohh, backup. I know, I'll add WGET to backup app so they can store it online. Hey, it's like 10 MB max, everyone gets one online file or something.

Let's see, how about pretend we give them stuff, but not give them? Like enroll them in a a beta something, release a few things early for registered users? Not release, but promise. Next app you get first.

What else? I know, if they register, give them "gold" OVI membership, with twice the storage nobody uses. And increase the limit for images, since nobody carries huge images.

Hell, we can even add a few features they woefully deserve and make it an OVI Gold pack and give them that

Or maybe write a few cool tools and only make them available to OVI registrees.
"

I'll have to pause now, it's giving me this ungodly urge to release a new model of something.

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

For me it's a little bit disappointing the fact that today I found a mail from a Nokia partner asking to answer to their questions since I am a n900 owner and they got my adress from nokia.
I mean: this is a disappointing spam. I never accepted that my data could be given to someone else except from Nokia.

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

You signed it.

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

This is easy. Add "No Thanks!" button and change "Done" to "Subscribe" :D

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

You, Quim, Ari, Peter, anyone who gets paid by Nokia and is known to this community.

Cool. Now there's more useful information in this 1 sentence than in the boring and unsubstantial mail that opened this thread.

What may be difficult to understand when you're there (right in these hallways and meeting rooms) is how disheartening the silence outside is. Nokia is the master of silence. Nokia hardly ever communicates. This issue was first raised on may 25th, and I'd have expected some sort of public statement within one week. (A public statement could be: "Not that big of a deal."; it needn't be an apology or a promise to change things.) Just anything.

Then we had blog posts, bug reports, private mails to people @nokia... still nothing. Silence.

Knowing that somebody talks about it, that we're being heard (which is what I'd like to read into your lines), is very important. Even if you can't say what you're discussing etc. - just the simple fact that you're discussing, that somebody's still alive in the ivory tower, is good to know. That should have been Nokia's statement here in the community forum in May: "We hear you. We're discussing internally, too."

Saying "I hear you and I know very well what you mean" would be just cool. No need to disclose internals.

First: I have to repeat what Texrat said before. Some Nokians might try a customers hat once in a while.

Other than that, you'd be surprised how often I find myself wearing Nokia's hat. I think everybody working in a big company understands a lot of what might possibly be going on at Nokia's offices. But with MyNokia I really don't understand what it's good for.

Here's my hat, ragnar. Wear it:

I registered at Ovi a while ago, before I got my N900. When I bought the N900, of course I started using Ovi from this device, too. Nokia knows my name, my credit card #, knows which devices I own and use actively (I buy from the store for both devices), has a valid mail address and phone number.

Enter MyNokia. The N900 sends an SMS (including information I don't know). What could you now know that you couldn't have gathered from the whole Ovi-infrastructure?

Talking about win-win: What do I get in return? They promised information about my device. Wrong. I got 2 or three messages since I registered, saying that new software was available. There was no new software. The messages directed me to a website "for further information" which didn't exist but returned a 404-error.

Now what do I do? I search for My Nokia on the web to change my settings there. I'm taken to a site where I can login with my Ovi account. Guess what happens then? Tis site asks me to sign up to My Nokia even though the N900 already registered me there! You, Nokia, have me registered at MyNokia but don't know it when I go there with my existing account! WTF? What kind of "data" do you collect? Can't you match my existing Ovi account with the automatic MyNokia registration? What's it good for then?

I really cannot see the point. Do you want to collect random data? That's probably really close to being illegal in some countries. Do you want users to sign up to your (Ovi) services? That's great, make them do so, but MyNokia will not achieve that. How does a MyNokia SMS make me a paying Ovi Store customer (if I'm not already)? It doesn't. I'd need username, password, a credit card, mail address,...... So what's the point?

Whatever you want to learn about you customers.... make them tell you. Make them fill in all the forms you need and sign up for everything you want them to by offering, say, a basic set of applications for free in return. Like Bounce Evolution and such. Have it all in the main menu (like it is), but only start a download helper application when they're first launched (like you already do) and have the user agree to transmit all the data you need. And sign up to Ovi. And agree to give you their first born.

EDIT: I forgot the important part: Given how MyNokia does not tie the user to any of Nokias online services... How useless it is from a consumer's perspective... How little information it should be able to collect... Is it worth destroying the good, open, "no-kill-switch", "you-own-your-device" image that Maemo/MeeGo could have had as a USP?

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

I would definitely not reply with a "Screw you - law is on our side" mail to my paying customers.

I'm not sure how ANY company would think that customers could ever consider an obfuscated, subject to charge, unsolicited SMS a feature - but that WOULD have been okay, since all of us know that sometimes stupid ideas get delivered out there without a second thought on how this might come off to the customers.

There would have been a dozen ways to deal with this after the first outcries from the community. After all, the sending of the SMS itself wasn't the big fiasco in this, it was the reaction to the inquiries of the community.

First a month of SILENCE, and after that a slap in the face in form of an official reply. Other PR departments would have received a collective dismissal by now.

This just proves once again that your higher-ups don't care about PR - seems like they still stake everything on the "For every customer with alienate, we'll get a new one by releasing a new flashy, half finished device" model.

Both in the old threads and in here lots and LOTS of suggestions have been made. Suggestions that would have lead to a real win-win situation, instead of the Noki wins - customer loses to legal department situation we now have.

Imagine MyNokia would have been a voluntary, send-by-net thing to begin with. Further imagine it would have been a real service instead of providing old news with non-working links. And then imagine that all information collected would not have been given away to "Nokia partners" without our consent.

Don't you think in that case most of us would have willingly subscribed to the service? Don't you think this wouldn't just have been a signal in the right direction ("Look, we provide you with a free service, and all you have to do is to fill in this form online"), but would also have been more effective than trying to do it secretly (which, ultimately, now leads to people installing the NotMyNokia application and you losing a lof of that oh-so-precious information)?

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

For me, the solution would be something like Mer, with working drivers for all hardware before the end of 2010. I do not know if this would require nothing from Nokia or far more than they are willing to consider.

By Mer, I mean basically open source OS with the interface to any binary blobs that can't be avoided documented.

I did not attach conditions on how to use my money and I do not spy on them. I expect to be able to use my device as I see fit and not be spied on or pay for "services" I do not need and do not want.

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

This accurately describes me right now. I was responsible for a lot of people around me buying N800's and I am now responsible for them moving off of them and onto Android devices lately because I can't, in good conscience, recommend a Nokia N900 as either a good phone nor even as a good portable computing platform (certainly not as a phone, God no!). We've spoken with our dollars. Nokia continues not to listen. Fine by me, I guess. I'm just disappointed at the wasted opportunity that Nokia had to create something far better than anyone else. Instead, people within Nokia with the positions to make decisions have instead chosen to piss all over the customers and their brand, and communicate in what I've already called a passive-aggressive manner. Canned phrases like "we value your opinion" are insulting when the meaning of these phrases is clearly not in evidence.

This is why we choose to take our business elsewhere these days.

IANAL - but I wonder if this might also fall under the wire fraud laws regarding using resources that people have to pay for in a way that customers are neither aware of or have no control over. i.e. calling FAX machines on business lines to spam ads--illegal because business lines usually incur an uncontrollable cost to the recipient of said ads. Another is telemarketing calls to mobile phones since there are many people who must pay for such unwelcomed calls, incurring an uncontrolled cost.

Agreed! First--what makes them think that anything we, or any of the community of coders that wrote all of the software that they're using to base their operating system on, would appreciate the surreptitious behavior of dipping into our computers to gather information about us? And not even have the courtesy to even tell us, too! Think about all the GNU software they're using and think about the intent of the rights they're being given. This is appalling, irresponsible and flatly unacceptable.

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

gerbick asked for a solution. For me, the starting point (and I know the dead horse is wearing thin) is for whoever speaks to the community, in whatever role or context, to quit with the automatic, insensitive, unthinking, defensive canned responses.

Cripes that's gotten old.

If any corporate representative could just do that, it would be a huge start toward repairing damaged goodwill.

It's not a question of "if", Nokia. JUST DO IT.

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

Here's a ponderer:

If a 3rd party app would do this and have been submitted to -devel, how far do you think it would have made it? How does this match against the standards held over everyone else?

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

Even if they said the right thing in a rude way, and DID the right thing, it would be better than saying the wrong thing in a nice way, and doing nothing (as is the case now).

If they came out today and said, "Fine--we're opening up 100% of the source code you a***holes wanted." I'd actually cheer and even consider buying their new crap. :P Hell, Despair Inc. talks to its customers like that all the time and I continue to buy their crap. :)

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

Really? Android is your answer for a more open, more customer friendly and generally less evil platform?

Nokia does many things we may not like, unfortunately Maemo is still the best we've got in the market as far as open values and freedom goes. . . .

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

Really? You would recommend the N900 as a phone? I didn't see any mention of open, customer friendly or evil in the grandparent post. I think that you would be hard-pushed to argue that Nokia are customer-friendly.

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

+1 to that. The PR 1.2 auto-register thing is ugly, no doubt. But turning to Android and Google as a cure is about like cutting your head off to cure a headache.

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

No, it is none of those things. However, as someone else said earlier in this discussion, if you are going to be screwed you may as well at least get the benefit of a market leading device, with a lot more apps available. And with behaviour like this I don't see Nokia ever catching up.

Personally, I might stick with a Maemo/MeeGo device -- I am a hacker and it is a lot more open than Android. However, I am not going to help Nokia steal other people's personal information by recommending anyone else to get one, or contributing any more software. The only thing that will change that view is if Nokia publically commit that no Maemo or MeeGo device will ever collect data again without allowing the user to opt out.

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha

What a crock of steaming....

Nokia reccommend you use a community based* programme that basically tricks the phone into lying on your behalf. The corporate PR machine just churned out a response that advocating lying to them.

That is insane. They are saying you should falsify reporting information to them. I haven't read the Priavcy policy because I am trying to get rid of the N900 because none of the apps work and get money for another phone, but I bet some money that in there will be a clause about falsifying information to them. Most T&C's have some clause that lets them off the hook if you have falsified information. If there isn't, there very soon will be.

Anyone still want to think Nokia are different from Apple or Google. Good luck. It is very clear they want to either step back from the N900 by having the legal stick of "you lied to us" or they want total control later on because you can't upgrade without telling them, and you can't get their "great upgraded OVI store"** without upgrading, so limit your N900 life span by not jumping their hoops.

Much respect to the OP, shame it took soo long.

* Note community based, yet again the community have to do Nokia's job.
** Please note the sarcasm in "great OVI store."

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

I'm not sure you've read the http://maemo.org/community/council/n...tion_in_pr1-2/ article correctly. It isn't Nokia recommending you run the "notmynokia" package, it's the Community Council recommending that.

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

This case was covered in Linux Magazin Online (german).

http://www.linux-magazin.de/NEWS/Mae...rung-bei-Nokia

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

And neither does it answer the point that Nokia are spamming every other Nokia user, not just N900 owners, with involuntary subscriptions and incessant unwanted SMS, including to those who have long since moved to another brand, with no easy way of opting out.

This isn't just a Maemo/Meego issue - its a deliberate policy by Nokia across the board that flies in the face of direct marketing anti-spam legislation and accepted codes of practice (particularly the continued lack of an Unsubscribe or STOP option in the messages despite the numerous complaints from customers past and present). Hence why the Australian Communications and Media Authority (ACMA) has now commenced an investigation into Nokia Australia Pty Ltd about potential contraventions of Australia's Spam Act 2003.

Nokia's lack of response to the complaints and refusal to cease and desist this practice is pretty ironic considering their positioning of MyNokia as a service intended to improve communication, customer relations, and customer loyalty. In the face of the competition they are already marginalised and on the backfoot with mediocre hardware and too-late software overhauls. Hardly the time to be creating further brand loathing by stupidity such as this.

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

I guess we have different definitions of openness, then. I really don't know much about Android having never owned an Android phone. Fine. I'll admit that. However, I do know Maemo.

I think it's great that I can get a Maemo-running device and run "flasher-3.5.exe --enable-rd-mode" to give me the ability to become root. Great! (/no sarcasm) But what does being root really give me on this platform? I can run "ping" and apt-get for when I can't be arsed to deal with Hildon Application Manager. Oh, and I can run "cp" to copy images into /usr/share/icons/hicolor to replace some images for "modding".
Yes, this is an extremely naive PoV and I'm sure a shitton of other things you are able to do could be added here.
Still, for me its usefulness is limited.

Great, Maemo is more open because it doesn't have some shitty VM running atop Linux but instead uses open source components not by Nokia. Things like: GTK+, Clutter, GLib, VTE, ...
This means that I can take most desktop Linux apps using the same and recompile them, right? Yes. Sure, it won't look pretty but it's something that Android can't do and that's why we have libhildon and libosso among others, mm?

'Cept, hmm, Linux on the desktop (let's not go into what it is here [OS? Kernel?], please) has moved on. Nokia are using old-*** versions of some of the libraries mentioned above which tends to make the task of "just recompiling" not so easy.
Why not just update the libraries, you say? Well, you see, thanks to the litany of closed source components to be found in Maemo, who knows which of them'll break. There's a reason you actually see Android on devices other than Google's. Hell. there's a reason why it's somewhat available for this device.
Yes, I'm sure Qt will save us all and I'm genuinely glad it's an option, for I have seen some wonderful applications utilizing it. Still, whilst I may have dabbled in QtDBus thanks to w00t, my GLib-foo remains stronger. Yes, Nokia opened Qt - 'grats to them - but ever consider that some of the underlying APIs it wraps under Maemo are closed? Not much that can be done by Qt about that of course, but consider which corporation holds the copyright to those closed libraries that provide that underlying API. Judging by that PDF SD69 linked to, I doubt Nokia are gonna be changing their ways for MeeGo. Hell, I'll be surprised if MeeGo on the community-led N900 port looks anything the same as it does on N666XXX when(/if) it's finished. At least Android, minus manufacturers' additions/removals, generally looks somewhat the same across devices (barring differences in the version of course). Why? Much more of the code written by Google themselves happens to be open. Saying that Maemo is 80% open source means **** all when it's the closed Nokia components like the Phone application that many on here have a problem with.

Let's take Brainstorm. I find it useless, personally, but I'd say it's popular and items from Bugzilla get moved there so, yes, it's important as it is useless (if that makes sense...).
Let me cherry pick some entries:
* "support for sim toolkit" - How? The libraries that access the SIM card are not only closed but either have no way outside of a closed library to access that interface or are just plain undocumented due to Nokia's incompetence. Either way, the person who's asking is ****ed.
* "Nokia Messaging widget" - doable, true - Modest is mostly open (relies on some closed components, but minor ones) and its D-Bus interface is published, but a person willing to come up with a solution may find their enthusiasm is somewhat curbed when they realise that the Modest desktop widget that Nokia coded is closed and they can't be arsed to re-do the same work that Nokia is keeping closed.
Mind, there are exceptions. One such person, nicolai, who happens to wonder, just like me, why Nokia keep their stuff closed has managed to make open source clones of the calendar widget and the profile stuff (not the backend daemon; just the UI stuff, really). These clones are not only better, but they're open. I'm sure that it would have been a lot quicker if he could've seen the code for the original he was cloning.

And you, Graham Cobb, wrote this wiki page because you were writing a call forwarding app.
I'm presuming that the fact that CSD is closed and its D-Bus interfaces are undocumented made writing that app a not-so-trivial task.

That page helped me to solve this.
However, I did that a month after the question was asked. No Nokian gave him the answer, just little old me.
Why? They don't give a ****. They have a closed source library (libconnui) that has all/most of CSD's D-Bus interfaces all wrapped up in a nice API for them. But that API isn't accessible to the likes of you or me, for Nokia won't even put the headers in nokia-binaries. Nokia. Open, right?

Between Custom Operator Name Widget (a clone of yet another closed library/program, FWIW), Caller ID State Switcher Widget (this one was more fun as it involved Mission Control this time), 3G/2G Mode Selection Applet and those three examples in that thread above, I'd have hoped that Nokia would've gotten the hint by now. And that's just my CSD-related ****. But what is it they say? Oh, yeah: A leopard never changes its spots.

Since there seems to be a lot of bollocks regarding Nokia's openness flying around, please, people, don't cry when I tell you that Maemo is not.

Back to the privacy issue, with a slight Android twist: Nokia are content to take an unknown amount of details (see the advantages for Nokia by having it done by a closed source program - Cherry?) from me, just like Google. So, no, that does not make them better than Google.
Since I am a hypocrite and have a Gmail account (which I willingly signed up for; see the difference?), I'd rather get anal raped by one company. See where I'm going?

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

I don't much care if Nokia catches up. I've got no personal stake in Nokia. I'm very interested in the success of MeeGo however.

Android is less open and a less capable OS. I'd think that as a hacker you'd be much more interested in working with a full-stack Linux, open OS like MeeGo than a Linux/Davlik hybrid. And MeeGo will need contributors like you to succeed.

Edit: Agree 100% that Nokia should make a clear statement regarding the ability to opt-out of data collection, regsitrations, etc.

Everyone bent outta shape over this cherry bomb thing should remember a few things going forward.

1. MeeGo does not = Nokia, not the way Maemo = Nokia.
2. MeeGo is hosted by the Linux Foundation as an independent OSS project.
3. So, MeeGo will not include anything like a cherry bomb unless the manufacturer puts it there.
4. Therefore, contributing to MeeGo does not = contributing to aiding and abetting invasion of personal privacy.
5. Anyone that thinks contributing to Android or the iPhone would be somehow morally preferable to MeeGo, or even Maemo, needs to have some sessions with their local shrink.

This scandal has (somewhat) changed my outlook toward Nokia. It has not changed my outlook toward MeeGo. Mostly, it means I'll be careful in choosing future MeeGo devices to see what the manufacturer has included in their particular version of MeeGo.

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

We shouldn't divagate. Android is a total different topic... and it has nothing to do with how Nokia acts. In my opinion Google neither Apple are good examples for this issue.

But every time a colleague, friend or a boss asked me: "Boah, cool stuff on your phone. Websites with flash, so fast, cool and fast task switching. Could you recommend it? I have to extend my contract and can select a new phone." - I was aware of a clear statement and considered the most time to answer: "rather not"

And this, not only because of Nokia's style to show how much they like their current and potentially furthermore customers (see post #1 in this thread)... No it's because of the well summarized missteps and my loooooong and annoying list of Bugs I have huge problems with.
I have still buttons to answer a call (despite there is a well voted Brainstorm since several months), I still can't add custom description for phone numbers like on my symbian N95 and we have still no confirmation that we will ever be able to import old SMS messages into the internal database in a correct form (and this is a easyfix!).

And it's now more than 6 months after the release!

With this in my mind and the single line reply "Nokia currently does not plan to reintroduce this." after Nokia has removed a often used feature on my Device without warning before updating to PR1.2, I should recommend a N900 to other people asking me in the believe I wouldn't want to give a bad advice?

Would I recommend my Boss this device when he asks me? - NO, I WONT! I have to work with him every day. Neither to my friends. I want to keep them and don't hear from them after several weeks: "because of you I have lost 200€, I got not enought money at eBay for this shitty N900 without a proper calendar".
No, I can't! Not without a guilty conscience. Not before I seebig steps from nokia to repeir their image.

I, myself, can't recommend the N900. The people knows Symbian and won't buy it again by their own decision. So what's there at the moment? Apple and Android. So, they buy Android and when they happy with it they will also buy it in the future. I would also only switch a platform when I am unsatisfied enought with the old.

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

Android, Google, Apple and their attitudes and actions regarding privacy and data mining vs Nokia's are at least somewhat relevant to this thread. Rants about missing features, bugs, etc. are not. Let's not turn this thread into another thread about that stuff. There's plenty of other threads already for that.