Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

i wonder if the android/iOS forums have similar departure speeches; love or hate it, but you got to admit the n900 has evoked some strong feelings from its owners, past and present.

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

I have seen some rather epic "I'm leaving Apple" and "**** you Steve Jobs" posts at some Apple iPhone forums - including the official Apple forums, which in a lot of cases got deleted.

The reaction to the "You're holding it wrong" was pretty damn bad in a lot of forums too. So yes... seen it before. I'm just now getting into the Android forum circuit and so far, I've seen some drama there too. I've helped a couple of folks with the same exact problems as I've seen on my Captivate - they were talking about throwing their phone out of the window.

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

not sure about android forums, but apple forums delete thsi kind of stuff pretty quick

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

Dont agree with you, great to get rid of one whinners in the Maemo/Meego community.

I dont give a **** what good he have done before cause I am so sick of whining this doesnt move the community forward!!! Nokia will not be more open cause of all whinings of people who doesnt know a shiut how bussines work. Ttere is NO hardwarecompany that has released all drivers as open source!

The fact is Nokia may decide to be more closed source and drop Meegoproject instead at the end and start using crappy windows mobile OS on highend instead, and thats not what I want as a Linux user/developer :-( :-(

Its insane how stupid people sometimes seems to be? Instead of whine about closed driver and shitty flash, just ask yourself this:

What is the altenatives if you want opennes and expremienting with the hardware?

Android? yeah right controlled by Google and HTC. How many totally open Android are there?!?

Ofcourse many thinks "Android is the best they have more apps and latest flash blablblabla" but as an european I dont want a big American company take control everything I do on the Internet Dont get me wrong Google has done alot good stuff for the OSS community but if they is the only its very bad at the end. Btw. There are plenty of people here that are angry cause the lack of payapps cause its not supported in northeuropean. And also flash has been discussed for several months so this is not only a problem in Maemo!!

So again is there othere alternative open?

Winmobile? I dont think so. Maybe the future for all windows fanboys but hell I will never use such crap OS.

Not talk about Iphone...

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

The problem with all this flaming goodbye post are that they are generally based on rumors or misunderstandings (normally cause the writer was lazy). Like this...

It's like saying that someone believed that you where able to play Crysis on the telephone and get's annoyed when it can't. They often base their thread on what other have said falsely in other goodbye posts. To motivate their goodbye. Like that of the MeeGo not coming to the N900.. well it will.

So if ppl still want to continue flaming the forums... then they should try to start consider facts rather than rumors and learning about their m***f***ing device. Or go quietly. I fully understand and sometimes support ppl getting mad about this type of posts. And it is not always fanboyism. These posts are often false and based on garbage.

I am no fanboy of Nokia but i love this device and the community for what it have thought me. I might not go Nokia next time.. but who knows. The one who have the device that suits me best will be my next buy.

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

I think they promised it....many people is still waiting for nothing?

http://www.maemofanatics.com/where-i...-for-the-n900/

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

These types of threads should be taken to nokia.com's forum. They'll more likely notice them there.

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

For maemo, yes, but at the time Harmattan was still going to be Maemo 6. If I remember correct, milestone for turn by turn navigation was already set for Harmattan and not for Fremantle. Later some Nokia executive said that it would come with MeeGo but N900 version was not on the table at the moment, adding that this doesn't necessarily mean N900 wouldn't eventually get it. This is as much as I know about it and as much as I miss this feature, I cannot really blame Nokia. As I have said many times before, I knew the limitations of the new device and I knew it was an early adopter device (yet I'm still happy with my device...). I do believe that Nokia will ease our suffering with full featured navigation for N900, in fact they really don't have any good reason not to do it. It's likely that the new version is developed with Qt, so porting should be trivial if they haven't messed it up too badly. Also, I guess it's the only way Nokia can make it up to some extent the grief we share about MeeGo not being supported on N900.

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

I've never said MeeGo, Maemo 6, Harmattan, or any other post-Maemo 5 release would be officially supported on the N900.

You posted:
I questioned whether the MeeGo announcement had made any difference. Prior to the MeeGo announcement, we knew Maemo 6 was due on new hardware late this year, and Nokia had only hinted in the negative regarding the question of the N900 upgrading to that new Maemo revision.

In this area, the MeeGo announcement brought only attention. It didn't bring change.

I rather suspect you think I've said something far removed from what I've said.

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

For me Nokia has let all end users down in the biggest way by allowing OVI store to be so poor its amateurish. the content is non exsistent... You have angry birds and maybe one or two other worthwhile pieces of software and then there is nothing.... that is proof of NO support for people who have paid top dollar for a device.. How can they not offer voice navigation for N900? ridiculous.... I both love and hate th N900 equally! as it does many things well, after 9 months of ownerships I conclude that Nokia are just sloppy/not interested and this is felt by end users.... including me.

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

Personally, I couldn't really care less about the whole Ovi Store thing. Only apps I have ever bought to any of my phones have been navigation software and nothing else, now I have that feature for free on my N97 mini. If Nokia didn't change navigation features to be free of charge, none of us would complain about it. Whenever we like it or not, N900 is still a niche product and moving towards "main street" version of MeeGo, I can perfectly well understand why Nokia is gearing all the effort for launching that device and featured services.

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

Btw (sorrry if already said; I did not reach or search the thread), there is a new FW version (not sure if its 1.3 or a smaller update) in Nokia beta testing already.

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

Then what exactly are you saying? Is there or is there not an officially supported OS update - and I don't mean PR1.3 - for the N900?

That's what I'm talking about. MeeGo was announced, it won't be officially supported on the N900 and that's all I've referred to in my original post and in this one.

I have absolutely zero proof, but I think Nokia knew that Maemo 5 was a dead end by the time they announced the N900.

Agree.

I suspect you've overlooked what I'm really saying. Nokia will not release a company supported OS upgrade for the N900.

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

From now on, sentences like:
BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
will be
BYE BYE N900 - Just another day Nokia!

I just read that qwerty12 left, and I really hope Nokia understand that qwerty12's leave IS a Sad day for Nokia.

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

Can we also have a "Goodbye N900" front-page article on ITT/TMO, too? I mean.. the headlines that are still sitting there are somewhat embarrassing under the circumstances.

Introducing Maemo Talk (Think of it as itT v2.0. It’s an ad-free site that will report on everything Maemo.)

The Nokia N900 all-in-one: camera, phone, video player, internet device — and Kindle partner

Any future for the Nokia Internet Tablet? Doh! Yes!

Losing the best-res title

etc.

That Future-for-the-Nokia-Internet-Tablet one makes me shake my head and giggle sometimes when I still see it there.

A rose by any other name would still have its bud cut off if Nokia sold it.

Don't you mean 'Great to be an Android device owner?' I mean.. you could just as easily move onto any other device, now that you appear to be using Android so enjoyably.

Great idea! Make it happen.

I suspect that the 41% global market share that Nokia is still touting will drown out any one person's departure despite their contributions. I also blame participants who support Nokia's efforts to continue to promote more closed-source on Linux devices like the Nokia tablets while continuing to use Linux and open-source as a bait-and-switch technique.

Come for the openness and freedom, stay for the irony and dismissiveness.

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

I'm saying the following has little meaning:

The date of the MeeGo announcement is as relevant as Arbor Day or your best friend's birthday on the question of future, officially-supported OS upgrades for the N900. Prior to the MeeGo announcement, prior to the release of the N900, Maemo 6 was coming in the second half of 2010 and every indication Nokia had ever given pointed to it not running on the N900. The MeeGo announcement changed only the name of the software the N900 wouldn't be getting in an officially supported manner.

I think they see it more as a transitional piece, but yes, it's been clear since at least last summer, well before the release of the N900, that Harmattan (and its capacitive multitouch screen) was the mass market ready product Nokia wanted to be selling.

Nokia had made clear the future of all of the company--Symbian, Maemo, desktop apps, and beyond--was with Qt. They'd made clear Ofono was the telephony stack they wanted. And on and on. None of it was ready though, and they'd already rushed past Elephanta due to it being too small a step.

Fremantle and the N900 carried the existing Maemo market forward, giving developers something more modern (and GSM capable) than the N8x0s upon which to build, and expanded the userbase as well. And seeing how official Qt support on Maemo 5 has turned out to be far greater than was originally planned, the OS may live on a bit longer, and more comfortably, than originally thought.

Beyond that, the N900 has both the reference UX MeeGo and unofficial Harmattan-MeeGo in the works for it. "Don't count your chickens" certainly, but there have been a number of hints regarding those updates, particularly of Harmattan-MeeGo, that seem quite promising.

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

Ooo... ouch. Don't remind me about Ofono and how open-sourced it was supposed to be. ...then not. ...then the rest of the OS. Oh, all those assurances and freedoms!

Fair question, though: If they thought it was doomed from day one, why didn't they provide better community support for this device even at the start? Frankly, it should have shipped with an "Obsolescence inside!" sticker for its lack of forward-thinking openness.

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

This is disconcerting. I actually held off buying the N900 for a little while largely due to waiting to see if it would be supported by MeeGo. I didn't think they publically had made any indication that it (Harmattan or MeeGo) for sure would not be available for the N900 until after the N900 release and MeeGo announcement.

I coulda swore I read things from the likes of qgil and other nokian's that said "things needs to be looked at still", "still unknown", etc.. regarding questions of whether the N900 will get upgraded.

I finally decided to get mine when my G1 was on the fritz, this was the only phone closest to what I wanted, and qgil said that the N900 was for sure going to be the development platform for MeeGo (which also came before the official "No, you won't get support" announcement if my memory serves correctly).. I realized that I probably wouldn't get official support but I'm the type of power-user that even a development edition of MeeGo should suit me fine in the future.

Anyway.. long book shortened: If Nokia knew from day 1 that the N900 would never get an OS update.. they sure as hell didn't make it very clear to anybody beyond the devs that attended their Summit.. and certainly didn't put it on any of their Marketing/Advertising crap.

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

Are you saying Ofono isn't as open as it has been purported to be? Or are you comparing Ofono and the telephony stack that's actually in Maemo 5?

If the former, would you please point out the pieces that are closed? I've missed that announcement or discussion.

If the later, please further remember that Nokia made it clear quickly after the announcement of Ofono, and long before even the first pre-alpha SDK for Maemo 5, that Ofono would be part of Harmattan, not Fremantle.

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

Your definition of what has meaning or not doesn't mean it is not true. From release to MeeGo announcement, it was roughly 6 months. What has come out since? PR1.2... that's it.

You may argue that is has no meaning, but it effectively meant the end of Maemo 5 progress. Qt Mobility is next, then dead end. The announcement... final nail in the coffin.

Disagree all day, the facts support the timeline.

I don't do hints. I do facts. Neither aforesaid release will enjoy official support.

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

Better : "old member registered with 200 nicks say farewell but it's not true".

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

I soooo missed this statement. This... is... wow. If true, that's just as bad as Apple.

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

Well, sounds like a lot of elements to break down to follow what I was thinking versus what you're saying:

If the former, how will I point out what has been closed up if what actually exists and has been delivered isn't open (ala, the latter question)?

If the latter, what difference does it make which one I'm talking about if there isn't going to be a Harmattan? Isn't Maemo 5 the end of the road for the N900? Will Ofono appear in MeeGo as a fully opened stack?

I actually do remember them saying that, yep. Long ago.

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

I believe that is actually the plan.

Remember, Nokia isn't the sole controlling force to MeeGo.. and MeeGo will not have closed pieces in the core part of the OS (IE: It won't come with things such as mp3 support, similar to Ubuntu and such) - so since Ofono is listed as part of it's default comms stack it would have to exist in a fully open implementation.. otherwise everyone who tries to use MeeGo would end up paying either Nokia, or Intel, for use of their closed ofono pieces.. Which is exactly the opposite of the reason the Linux Foundation is hosting it...

IF my understanding is correct.

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

As far as I know, Ofono is open. Your post was vague, but it seemed possible you were implying this wasn't (completely) true. I was asking if that's what you were saying, and if so, what you'd read/seen/heard about closed parts.

Based upon your confused reply, I take it you know of no closed portions of Ofono.

There is. It will not be called Maemo 6 though. Nokia has not announced what they'll be calling it exactly, though for sure it will be tied to MeeGo, not Maemo.

In terms of officially supported firmware, yes.

So far as I know. We've looped back to the top of this post.

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

I remain cynically optimistic, if that's at all a possible state of being. ;)

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

All signs point to yes. If you noticed Nitdroid news, there's been rumblings about GPRS support.

As part of MeeGo for N900 there has been work to further support N900 cellular modem in Ofono and yesterday a needed patch to power on the modem came in (hence people playing with GPRS now). It's seemingily open source enough for even the Nitdroid and Gentoo people to use it :)

Other (open!!) bits are cellular modem speech path, telepathy connection manager for ofono, pulseaudio modules for cellular modem and such

I personally look forward to when we can make a voice call with a fully open stack on N900 as all the pieces are making their way into the open*

(* on Linux side. The actual cellular modem software which doesn't run inside Linux, but on a separate processor, is probably not open nor will ever be for regulatory reasons. That we can control it's functions using a open stack is good though.)

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

Many in that rant were blamed unfairly, wrongly.

But yes, collective defections (bloggers, developers, advocates, etc) is a sure sign of trouble for Nokia. Many of us predicted it when the MeeGo announcement was made. For one, I'm not happy at all to be right about that.

What I don't care for though are the childish slams against those of us trying to find some sort of silver lining. The attacks from the completely disenchanted are undeserved. Just as everyone is entitled to their unique opinion, so are we all entitled to find our own way forward.

My personal goal is to carry as much of Maemo into MeeGo as I can. Others have elected to fly as far from both as they can. C'est la vie, C'est la guerre. No reason to insult anyone over either choice.

Can we agree to disagree? if not, why not?

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

Just like the rant a comment like that is highly subjective. Personally I thought he was spot on in most cases. Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion and there really is no need bold that you happen to think it was wrong.

Since it wasn't.


And that's my subjective opinion.

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

Blame was absolutely misplaced. That's not subjective, it's black and white.

And if you read my post before replying you saw that I did acknowledge the whole point about opinions. I'll be the first to defend EVERYONE'S right to hold their personal opinions, regardless of popularity or political correctness. But we're not just talking about holding opinions, silvermountain, we're talking about things like libel and slander.

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

If you by 'wrongly' meant HOW he called them out then yes I agree with you.
If you by 'wrongly' meant that they were called out without there being any 'reason' (in lack of better word) for it, then I would disagree.

And that blame is not subjective I 100% disagree with. There is always three sides of a story: his, hers and the truth. It is all grey.

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

I mean both, and you're of course free to disagree, but both still remain a fact nonetheless.

Zero reason to attack community contributors. Totally unjustified.

Non-employee community members are not to blame for Nokia's mistakes. Period. Fact. Black and white.

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

Blaming half the people he did in his rant would be akin to me blaming you.

Damnit Silvermountain.. why haven't you made Nokia listen to us yet? Huh? You should have gotten off your a** and walked on down to Nokia's HQ and FORCED them to listen to the Maemo community! What's wrong with you!!!

etc.

There's no point. Nobody (or very few) of the people that qwerty12 went off on in his tangent had any more authority or control over any of this as you, me, or the homeless man down on Avenue 2. It's insult with no real basis.

I was very sad to see qwerty12's departure. Very, very sad. I hung my head down in depression the day I found his thread that he reached his breaking point. I disagree with all of his presentation (though I understand people get angry), and I disagree with a lot of the targets he pinpointed in his rant. His anger towards Nokia is understandable.. His anger towards people that are really no different than anyone else here.. that's where I got lost.

Yes we have trolls, Yes we have fanbois, as do all communities. The generic sense of "troll" and "fanboy" in his rant I can understand.. when he called on specific people however, they didn't fit either category that I could tell.

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

I tried...but all the fanbois at the entrance saw me carrying a Droid and started shouting at me to take my iPhone and gtfo.

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

Just read Qwerty12's leaving post. Raw. Some of it corroborates with what us forum 'heretics' say.

I am sure he had his reasons for blowing off like that, being intricately linked to the community and its operation. And I also agree that people should call a spade a spade and see both sides of the coin.

But the the public beration of individuals without right to reply is ungentlemanly. There are also smatterings of grandiosity and anger management problems within it (edit - both things can be explained by the fact he is 16, I didn't know that).

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

You forgot the other side of that equation that also deserves respect and is clearly being forgotten. Let me illustrate:

In essense, I agree. Let's just not forget there's two equally deserving sides of opinions in this that deserve that same respect and opinion. Some of us have been around a while and are soured by these trends.

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

I didn't forget it at all. I said it in other posts. So I don't understand your post there at all...:confused:

EDIT: I'm actually one of the disenchanted, if that hasn't come across. Just not to the extreme of some.

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

It might be, but if he's at a breaking point after enough back-and-forth and wrangling with Maemo (Nokia's Maemo) and wrangling conversations with Maemo members who HAVE a voice within Nokia and Maemo that he and others couldn't have or have been dismissed, sometimes the only thing you CAN do is just throw up your hands, turn around and slam the door on the way out.

I can't say that I disagree one iota with Qwerty12 and his exit. You don't WANT to do there, but sometimes rude isn't always wrong.

True enough. Sorry. I suppose I'm just extreme. ;)

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

I still think that the reason why people are being disgruntled to the point of utter breakdowns is being overlooked. Instead of looking at whom blame was placed upon, the fact that problems exists tend to precede blame.

If there's no problems, the blame game is minor. The problems are not minor, the blame game is unfortunately showing that.

Only remedy is to fix things...

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

And now we're back to MY original point in this thread:

What exactly do you expect us to do about it??