Re: IMO, MeeGo will be a tragedy on smartphone market like Maemo!
 

Also, we're shipping early and often - 1.1 has had daily repository dumps, weekly images since the beginning. So will 1.2 have. How is this not ship early and often? :P

There is no release because well, it's coming out on Wednesday and there'll be 1.1 updates later probably. It's known there's bugs and they're public because well, jolly, it's a open project. There'll always be what's determined release blockers and those that aren't. And any product ships with known bugs.

We are on a fixed release schedule. http://wiki.meego.com/Release_Engineering/Plans/1.1 remember?

Re: IMO, MeeGo will be a tragedy on smartphone market like Maemo!
 

Yes, except when you ask to try to run the N900 image, people say its not ready. So all we can do is sit on the outside and watch. That isn't open to me. Heck, the N900 image didn't even get built for a period of time because it had stopper bugs. And that prevented others from working on their parts and end users from testing it.

Lets say this... the N900 is the first and biggest Meego handset platform. And it literally has ZERO user testing on it. How can it be ready for release ?

Contrast this to how Fedora does things. Strict feature freezes. Daily/weekly builds. Code breakages are not allowed. Several live versions. Several RCs. Releases into a -testing repository. Lots of end user testing. Then and only then is it ready to be released. None of this has happened with Meego.

Don't dare tell me that anything they have thus far is ready for release, because by the open community standards, its not even close.

Re: IMO, MeeGo will be a tragedy on smartphone market like Maemo!
 

It's open. Not handed to you on a silver platter, but nonetheless open. You can even participate if you want.

Did you not read a word he said? Did you seriously ignore everything that Stskeeps just wrote, especially the line about ARMv5 images still being built?

You seem more than happy to attack and attack, but not to participate or pay any attention.

Re: IMO, MeeGo will be a tragedy on smartphone market like Maemo!
 

News to me. I have not heard any marketing information on this. I read the Linux homepage daily and I have not seen a single article.

The schedule here says it was supposed to release last week. (http://wiki.meego.com/Release_Engineering/Plans/1.1)

At the very least it slipped a week and nobody updated the plan. Contrast this to Fedora where there are release milestones and the plan gets updated as soon as a milestone slips. Google Fedora + slip and you'll see what I mean.

I understand the Meego team is probably pretty new and they are early in things, but this is a hugely important release for Nokia and they need to get things right, including the development and project management.

I will be very, very happy if a quality piece of software ships on Wednesday and I will heap praise on the developers if it happens.

Re: IMO, MeeGo will be a tragedy on smartphone market like Maemo!
 

Uhm..

Did you see http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/meego-codedrop.php and when we used it, and http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/ ?

Also, when a platform is in motion and being developed, there will be stopper builds. It's a fact of life. The light can't be showing 'green' constantly.

Again, look at the release page. And at http://wiki.meego.com/Release_Engine...lease_Timeline and at http://wiki.meego.com/Release_Engineering/Process , and at http://wiki.meego.com/Quality/Handse...eport/MeeGo1.1

These things happen, you know.

Also, let me remind you again: what is being shipped from meego.com is a platform, not a end-user product.

If it was an end-user product we'd have MP3 codecs, Flash and other things. And you'd have to help pay the royalities for those features.

Re: IMO, MeeGo will be a tragedy on smartphone market like Maemo!
 

No.

Please pay attention to figure 1:

http://wiki.meego.com/images/WeeklyReleaseCycle.png

That's the perspective the 'week' is supposed to be understood.

1.1.0.0 2010-10-21--2010-10-27

Re: IMO, MeeGo will be a tragedy on smartphone market like Maemo!
 

Thanks for the report. After 1.1 release, will we be on track to getting a N8x0 adaptation to test?

http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...4&postcount=41

We have to decide whether to move ahead with SSU^2 or MeeGo adaptation.

Re: IMO, MeeGo will be a tragedy on smartphone market like Maemo!
 

Here is the quality handset test report for October 22, 2010.
http://wiki.meego.com/Quality/Handse...ptance20101022

This is presumably the same software that you are saying will be released on October 27th.

Highlights

============================================
Key Issues:
8268- Double thumnail windows display when launching the xterm.
8414- Video playback is not smooth on N900.
7074- Incoming call can not be answered if dialer not open when call is received.
8194- [REG] Call a contact crashes contacts application.
===========================================

Result Overview
Total TCs 36
Passed 21
Failed 9
Not testable 6
Run rate 83.33%
Pass rate of total 58.33%
Pass rate of executed 70%

==========================================
Dial one outgoing call, accept by other party, terminate this call (phonesim, GSM & WCDMA) (GSM and WCDMA cannot be covered until real modem supported,Will use phonesim to test before real modem support)
==========================================
Scan wifi, check wifi connection (open/wep/wpa) and disconnection Fail
Bug 8043 - Settings application crashes on connecting to a WLAN AP
=========================================
As comment 1 of Feature 5770, usb mass storage device is detected by computer is moved to 1.2
========================================
Bug 7170- Battery level not shown
========================================
Top bugs
8268- Double thumnail windows display when launching the xterm.
7728- Sometimes black screen occurs when launching an application.
5850- It takes long time to launch core applications at the first time.
3590- The screen view is reversed when turn the device 180¡ãor 270¡ã
5790- Bluetooth settings does not display properly after tapping Bluetooth from Settings
7170- [N900] Battery level not shown
8043- Settings application crashes on connecting to a WLAN AP
8362- "start playing music" is not shown when no music is playing in music player.
7052- Some index letters of Video application are not displayed
8414- Video playback is not smooth on N900.
5882- DBus method requests to services not yet started timeout and loose context.
8194- [REG] Call a contact crashes contacts application.
==========================================

Call me a ignorant, but this doesn't look like the signature of software that is ready to ship 3 days from now. To me it looks like the team is shipping untested software that has a lot of bugs.

Re: IMO, MeeGo will be a tragedy on smartphone market like Maemo!
 

I think there's room for both, but I've been asking around about borrowing some build time to do a ARMv6+VFP build. And today while I was in transit I've spent time researching how to do it properly.

It seems like there's some awesome kernel work ongoing in the OpenWRT project, so that's covered..

Re: IMO, MeeGo will be a tragedy on smartphone market like Maemo!
 

I stand by that known bugs are better than unknown bugs. There was something about a big end user product shipping with thousands of known bugs.. :)

Also, some of these are simply features that wouldn't go into 1.1.

Keep in mind there's a release and then based on the featureset, fixes are delivered as things go along:

http://wiki.meego.com/images/MeeGoReleaseTimeline.JPG

So, yes, there's known bugs, but some were determined release blockers and some not. The release has to go out on a fixed release schedule. No delays.

In an ideal world we would start out with a perfect platform, add features, fix bugs in those features before they make it into Trunk. But fact is: we started off a non-perfect platform and non-perfect components.

1.2's where it's at.

1.1 needs to go out to let those who'd like to build a product (netbook, handset, ivi, whatever) based on the platform to finish up their work.

1.1 is already useful for some purposes, but Handset isn't there yet. Probably more like a Handset UX 0.5.

Re: IMO, MeeGo will be a tragedy on smartphone market like Maemo!
 

Exactly what kind of limitations are limiting Symbian? It wont take long before we see Symbian on the N900 by the looks of it. Wild Duck

Re: IMO, MeeGo will be a tragedy on smartphone market like Maemo!
 

So what does this mean. Are we going to wait much longer for MeeGo due to some OS Fails????

Re: IMO, MeeGo will be a tragedy on smartphone market like Maemo!
 

Here is the release timeline I am commenting from.

Re: IMO, MeeGo will be a tragedy on smartphone market like Maemo!
 

Thank you for that. The first step to dealing with a situation is to correctly identify where you are at.

Re: IMO, MeeGo will be a tragedy on smartphone market like Maemo!
 

Yes, so am I. You can find those exact releases on repo.meego.com as well as go see the work going on in wiki.meego.com, in the development of the web site content, etc.

Also, please recall MeeGo.com is not equal Nokia MeeGo.

MeeGo.com is a platform project under the Linux Foundation where Intel and Nokia are the initial members. Nokia would eventually take a MeeGo.com release to target to base off, track it while developing, add their bells and jingles once release is out, they have very short time to market to put out their 'Nokia MeeGo' or whatever it's called.

Similarly, SuSE MeeGo would do this for netbook. Or Linpus, or others.

Re: IMO, MeeGo will be a tragedy on smartphone market like Maemo!
 

I'm not sure about the room. Or about probability of success for MeeGo adpatation.

Re: IMO, MeeGo will be a tragedy on smartphone market like Maemo!
 

I'd prefer to assume 0% probability and then beat the odds.

SSU^2 has a clear purpose and I'd be a user of it too.

Re: IMO, MeeGo will be a tragedy on smartphone market like Maemo!
 

Err..considering the unsatisfaction people have with Maemo and the N900 how on earth is that a good idea. It'd only work if Nokia sold the device to people who applied to be beta testers.

Re: IMO, MeeGo will be a tragedy on smartphone market like Maemo!
 

Here is another thing that pi$$es me off... every time we get close to a promised release date, the target changes. Meego != Nokia Meego. Release != something usable by an end user, ie now its a "platform", whatever that means.

Question: When are we going to see a schedule for a piece of software that I can use on my N900 without resorting to xterm or applying patches or dual booting, to make and receive calls without my phone crashing ?

Re: IMO, MeeGo will be a tragedy on smartphone market like Maemo!
 

That strategy isn't to help the end use, though it may because they might actually be happy seeing a piece of software that does something, rather than a bunch of promises for a piece of future software that does everything.

That strategy is to help the development process. The sooner you get a product in the customer's hands, the sooner you get real world feedback on it and the sooner the bugs get found. There is no bug testing force like 1,000 end users.

This is the premise of ship early, ship often. As far as I am concerned, Nokia (The Meego team of it) hasn't shipped anything because there hasn't been anything that remotely works well enough that a non developer user can even start to play with.

Contrast this with the live and RCs that Fedora ships.

Re: IMO, MeeGo will be a tragedy on smartphone market like Maemo!
 

No, it was pretty clear from the start. MeeGo for N900 won't be supported by Nokia (pretty clearly stated, ie, no Nokia Care calls). Work on a MeeGo(.com) hardware adaptation for N900 was started.

I'll give you that there has been a lot of personality split between if MeeGo is end user (netbook) or a platform. In practice however, isn't Android a platform and what you actually use, is HTC Android (with google apps, which isn't part of Android)? Similar model with MeeGo.

It's called Maemo ;)

Seriously though: Only way to not resort to 'dual booting' is by it being preinstalled on your phone or you getting in touch with flasher somehow.

I can make and receive calls on MeeGo/N900. That it comes out the speakers instead of ear piece is because the audio policy daemon simply isn't a 1.1 feature. So it goes.

Re: IMO, MeeGo will be a tragedy on smartphone market like Maemo!
 

Right. N900 not supported either.

Note to Nokia: quit stringing people along with moving deadlines, vague product definitions and propagating false hopes. You aren't fooling anyone. You are only hurting yourself.

I'm sure it is. Only HTC doesn't say its a platform when a software deadline rolls around. They ship software that works on their phone.

In that case, I'll be throwing my N900 in the garbage and buying an Android phone like all the rest of the market has. Silly me for thinking something of quality was going to come from this Nokia + Intel effort.

Silly me, but I thought that is the sort of thing the N900 hardware adaption team, with Nokia's blessing, would broach.

You know what is really funny here is Nokia's attitude toward the N900 user base. Instead of looking at it as a huge, free testing force, they want to wash their hands of it. Have you noticed how Redhat uses Fedora ? That should be your model, not washing your hands of it. Guess what the quality of Meego 1.6 on your next device is going to be if you don't get it properly tested ????

I guess the handset "platform" doesn't need that "feature". :rollseyes:

This whole situation stinks and as long as things continue as they are, I don't see any change happening for the foreseeable future.

Re: IMO, MeeGo will be a tragedy on smartphone market like Maemo!
 

.. uhm, that's exactly how the model is like - build a product on top of the platform.

It does need that feature, hence why it's planned for 1.2.

Re: IMO, MeeGo will be a tragedy on smartphone market like Maemo!
 

well, their smartphone userbase doesn't probably even utilise couple percent of the capabilities. calls +smses plus camera and that is it. It is hard to say if smartphone features will break to amongst Joe Averages.


what do you mean when you talk about embedding something to the os?

and mobile devices are compromises, so there must be flaws. always.

Re: IMO, MeeGo will be a tragedy on smartphone market like Maemo!
 

from the time i got a maemo device.......i learned how to hack.....hack.....screw the device.......bring it back to usable state.....and hack again.....i believe making the device on your own design and function by tweaking the system is what maemo stands for.....


and yes!!! meego will be like that!

Re: IMO, MeeGo will be a tragedy on smartphone market like Maemo!
 

So not even the "platform" is complete.

So, Meego 1.2, to be released in April, 2011, will be installable by a common user and runnable without dual booting, on an N900 and suitable for everyday usage by a normal user ?

Re: IMO, MeeGo will be a tragedy on smartphone market like Maemo!
 

I love this:
=============================================
tablets-dev.nokia.com Software Authentication
In order to download the software, you will need to provide your device's 15-digit IMEI number and accept the end-user software agreement. If you agree, you have 1 hours of time to download the software after which the acceptance must be renewed.
The IMEI number is printed on the device's packaging and on the label underneath the device's battery, and displayed in the Settings application (field IMEI in Settings > General > About Product). To find the identification number printed on your device, do the following:
Switch the device off.
Disconnect the charger from the device.
Open the battery cover and remove the battery.
The identification number is printed on the label underneath the battery. The IMEI number is directly below the 2D barcode and the "MADE IN ..." text. It consist of 15 characters which is separated by / (slash) characters. Only the numbers need to be entered in the field below.
=============================================

Seems pretty open to me !

Re: IMO, MeeGo will be a tragedy on smartphone market like Maemo!
 

Will you pay attention and stop being an ***? I understand you're looking for a target to rage at, but pretty much everything you've attacked the MeeGo project for is either baseless, irrelevant, or just reveals that you are simply reacting without investigating.

Installable by a common user, no. For that it would need to be supported by Nokia and they have said they would not. It is intended to be a complete reference implementation of MeeGo against actual ARM hardware. Without dual booting? Probably. Every day usage? Likely as well. Complete end-user experience? Unknown.

It will be functional, it will be usable. If someone wanted to they could apply the tweaks, software, and improvement to turn it into a real end-user OS instead of a reference target.

Stop bashing people and their efforts because you can't be bothered to understand what's going on.

Re: IMO, MeeGo will be a tragedy on smartphone market like Maemo!
 

The 1.1 platform isn't complete for basing a proper handset product on. We can all see that.

What is hoped, at least for me, is that MeeGo(.com!!) 1.2 is a solid enough platform to take and build a proper handset product of.

I don't want to go into promises of what MeeGo.com 1.2 is like, you can go see that during development and what is already in the bugs.meego.com featurezilla.

What is on -my- (for the N900 port) table of what I hope to see for N900 in accomplishments for 1.2, relevant to this topic, so far, on an entirely technical manner:

OMAP3 GLES implementation must provide hardware vsync
eMMC as installation target for MeeGo N900
uImage target support in kernel-n900
ext2 or FAT partition in N900 image for uImage placement
Open BME IPC implementation and contextkit plugin
OMAP3 PM and DVFS
OMAP3 DSP support and base image
OMAP3 DSP accelerated Ogg Theora and Ogg Vorbis
ARMv7 hard floating point port of MeeGo
OMAP3 DSP accelerated JPEG encode/decode
Ability to include OMAP3 DSP h264, m4v, mpeg4, aac, vpp codecs into filesystem
NEON optimized Vorbis and FLAC
NEON optimized Qt, detectable on runtime
WL1251 calibration and set-up of MAC address from CAL
Bigger image size for N900 images (4gb)
Release engineering: easy install of MeeGo PR1.3 u-boot for dual-boot purposes

What I -hope- for MeeGo 1.2 is that we'll have a feature complete (please note that when people say 'feature complete', it means that these were the features indicated for this specific release, you can't say that an application is 'perfect' cos there'll always be features that aren't there and may arrive in the future) handset UX with reference applications.

My hope is that someone takes that MeeGo 1.2 + hardware adaptation, mixes it up with usual nice things like MP3 codecs and other things, publishes it (as they legally can) a user-suitable
installation with community apps.

Re: IMO, MeeGo will be a tragedy on smartphone market like Maemo!
 

http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/1...t-armv7l-n900/

Last I checked, going there wasn't necessary anymore. Stop being a tool.

Re: IMO, MeeGo will be a tragedy on smartphone market like Maemo!
 

That was when we didn't have redistributability rights for some firmware pieces. We don't use that any more but it was an example of weekly images being dumped there.

Re: IMO, MeeGo will be a tragedy on smartphone market like Maemo!
 

So what deadline has moved? What vague product definition? Are you talking about the MeeGo project or Nokia?

What software deadlines does HTC have? It's Google who ships Android, and they don't seem to have public deadlines. HTC makes products with it and ships when they're ready. MeeGo project ships MeeGo on a fixed release schedule, manufacturers make products with / on top of it and ship them when they're ready.

How do you know something of quality isn't going to come if you haven't seen any MeeGo products yet?

Again you're somehow thinking it's only Nokia that's dealing with MeeGo and the Handset UX, it's not. The reference applications are done by Intel for example. And you keep harping about wanting to test it and do bugfixing but in the next sentence complain how you don't want to use such unfinished software?

Re: IMO, MeeGo will be a tragedy on smartphone market like Maemo!
 

Two short points:

1. MeeGo is new. Really. As surprising as it may sound, stuff needs to be worked on to reach a stable or even remotely feature-complete state. Android took almost 5 years from project start to first handset. I am willing to bet extremely high amounts of money and beer WP7 and iOS werent born in under a year, either. Seeing development is scary for most people, especially when you come from a project that has many years of development behind it.

2. The differentiating factor people have been hunting for is that you don't have a huge stone named 'Google' on your neck (and no, Nokia is not an equivalent here by a long shot). You can have your own store (without fearing Nokia walks over you like the Android Marketplace does), your own business model, buddies, whatever and contribute back to something you see developed, no surprises like the Nexus One style 'oops, we thought you would be thrilled we trumped your latest offerings, ruining product cycles'. MeeGo should be Android done right, without the fragmentation and the Google leash. Whether it will be successful in attaining this is a still open question of course, we'll have to wait a few years to see that (neither iOS nor Android made their popularity sprints on the first year of existence).

Re: IMO, MeeGo will be a tragedy on smartphone market like Maemo!
 

Now I am getting pissed of your ********. why doesnt you help the meego team with development instead of whinning here if you are so damn good. Its a open project and I am sure they like to have some more developers and testers!!!

Re: IMO, MeeGo will be a tragedy on smartphone market like Maemo!
 

In your opinion, maybe. But I for one neither care about nor agree with your opinion.
Seriously, topics with titles like this always make me laugh.

Re: IMO, MeeGo will be a tragedy on smartphone market like Maemo!
 

My question is :
Will N900 get MeeGo v1.2 adaption ?

Re: IMO, MeeGo will be a tragedy on smartphone market like Maemo!
 

Yes. If you were to read before reacting and posting topics such as this you would realize what you said will, in fact, happen.

It won't be Nokia supported, but it will happen.

Re: IMO, MeeGo will be a tragedy on smartphone market like Maemo!
 

This thread is ********.. it kind of sums up the fanboy type of chatter you see on gaming sites.

I love Maemo, i think it's a cut above anything i've ever used. If it could handle Java apps it would be perfect and i'd happily stick with it for a few years.

MeeGo will be fine, will it bring anything new to the table? Probably not.. will it be a tragedy? I couldn't care less.. i don't have shares with Nokia or Intel, as long as i have a device in my hand that i'm happy with it's good enough for me. Maemo or MeeGo becoming mainstream OS is purely something for Nokia execs.. or fanboys to worry about.

Bar the Chuck Norris nonsense, I thought users on here were supposed to be kind of intelligent?

Re: IMO, MeeGo will be a tragedy on smartphone market like Maemo!
 

Nice way to bash people who are primarily responding to fearmongering by someone who isn't truly aware of what he's talking about.

Well, you enjoy passively using whatever device that comes along. I (and many others) would rather try to apply pressure to an industry and get it to move in a way we'd like, instead of locked down, single sourced like almost every other mobile OS out there. Not everyone is happy to be a passive, idle consumer content to take what is given.

Nice way to bash everyone here. Communities do so well with comments like this.

Re: IMO, MeeGo will be a tragedy on smartphone market like Maemo!
 

I would try to respond to you but I'm so stupid that I am forgetting to breathe and that's causing way too much complications.. Wow big words coming from an unintelligent t.m.o community member!