Re: Why N900 failed on consumer market ?
 

by the looks of the past months, i did not even see that the n900 wants to reach the end consumers........that's IMHO

Re: Why N900 failed on consumer market ?
 

I think the answer is : Niente.

Thats the problem.

In Nokia world 2009, we can see a diagram that shows the future of Maemo 6. better portrait mode support.

Nokia is woking on this now.
But I think it just look like an UI-enhanced Symbian.

Re: Why N900 failed on consumer market ?
 

Good point.

So at first, Nokia just want Maemo supported by the community.

And do not want to build a eco-system like Android,

but the market performance is better than Nokia's estimation,

So Nokia decide to 'go commercial', such as open Ovi market for

N900.

Am I right ?

Re: Why N900 failed on consumer market ?
 

Well if the source is not freely distributed, then yes it would be easy to write malicious apps. But I don't think that just because the OS is open it can't be a commercial success. Getting superuser privileges is pretty trivial on most Android phones and they still do just fine.

Getting specific
 

First I'll say I own 2 N900s 'cause I plan to use it a long time.

But the reason it 'failed' is obvious: lack of functionality and polish. We all know the things it can not do that it really should. And the bugs further diminish its capability. Like how the streaming radio song information will not update in the media player. Or how the media player often will not show the new media loaded on the N900.

And another: the fact that if you rename a file in the file browser the device will not show you that new name.

It is filled with this kind of stuff that is infuriating after a year or more of owning.

Everyone has their own irritations like this. Most of us still like the device despite the flaws because we like what it stands for. But most people don't purchase a phone on principle.

And there you have it, IMHO.

Re: Why N900 failed on consumer market ?
 

does nokia really have to win the market back? new times means change im just glad if they stay in the game, competition !

Re: Why N900 failed on consumer market ?
 

Failed??

It is a machine for the intelligent geek.
In that it has succeeded beyond any other device out there.

If I met someone carrying and using an n900 I would know instantly
that they are definitely not a dimwit or a *****,
regardless of whatever else they may behave as.

I absolutely cannot say that about people who rely upon iPhones, Android etc.
Not they they are all hopelessly clueless,
(many use those devices because they have no time/talent for tinkering
and-or maybe depend upon it for basic functionalities, trendiness, etc.)
but that you cannot judge that book by its cover as well as you can the n900.

With the n900 there is a prerequisite of some spark of intelligence
just to be able to use it for more than a paperweight or fashion accessory.
(Yes, there seems to be slew of apps just to make it exactly such a thing despite all that)

Re: Why N900 failed on consumer market ?
 

realy.

1. well we had that kind of argumentation years ago with computers. well the open aproach which was tandy, apple(yes ) and finally the ibm pc succeded. now it's in use in most households. yes there are people formating their hardisks. but seems nevertheless the better aproach. and if the people were not able to install whatever they want on their computers: what effort would that be. noone realy wants to go there.
and yes as little as this devices are, they are by far more powerfull than pcs were a couple of years ago. so that is more than a fair comparison.

2. i want to be able to look at the things. yes and i do want to change things to my liking and my needs.

3. i don't like companies damaging my devices. i rather damage them myself.

4. i can give you a lot of ways to damage the device. most of them need no root access.

5. rather than being concerned about root access of the user i would be concerned about missing pam for instance.

6. most problems folks have here seem not to be some accidental rm * but failing updates, broken packages, hardware issues, and request for little trickery to get more out of their device combined with a lot of innovation. well yes and the innovation and trickery comes to gether with little accidents but seems the folks rather try to fix the things themself and only head for a support if that is not possible.

i think if the n900 was even less open it would have failed even more. if all the folks who make things work for the n900 weren't and it only had the things nokia put in it, this device would be a comparable boring machine.

Re: Why N900 failed on consumer market ?
 

Why N900 failed on consumer market?
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE64R1DI20100528
Why N900 didn't fail on consumer market?
http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/28/n...five-months-so
I believe it's clear that the N900 was never meant for the mass consumer market - again, I prefer to use targeted to niche market. In Nokia's quarterly reports, the flagship model in 2009 was the N97. For N900 to compete there, it needs to have a more 'famous' OS...which was obviously the opposite here.

Worldwide Smartphone Sales to End Users by Operating System in 2009 (Thousands of Units)

Re: Why N900 failed on consumer market ?
 

You're right. Nokia is one of the biggest phone manufacturers that has the production capability to produce different products for different market segments, which could result in maximum profit gain.

OP's question is just like asking why Ferrari 458 failed on consumer market. :)

(oh well put down your flamethrowers I didn't say N900 is the Ferrari of smartphones so take it easy. XD )

Re: Why N900 failed on consumer market ?
 

Don't forget that there are something like 100 million of us in the US on CDMA networks (Verizon and Sprint) who cannot use it as a phone, so it is/was not an option for us even if we did want as an upgrade from our N800/N810 IT's (which some of us know how to tether on our CDMA phones ;)

RO

Re: Why N900 failed on consumer market ?
 

your statistic shows one thing: nokia lost substantial marked share in overal devices to apple and android.

the real interesting thing is how does the n900 convince the customers compared with similar devices, do you hava statistic about that as well. is the n900 from perspective of a customer a good choice or does a customer rather tend to chose something else. if so i think it's quite interesting: what are the reasons for such a choice?

or if i take you explanation that nokia wanted it not to find acceptance in the marked i refrase: what did nokia do to the device on purpose to scare off the customers and not buy it instead e.g. a iphone.

refrase the way you want it: a high end n900 is available but users don't buy it but prefer competing product instead. i think is quite interesting what made the customers to choose this way? what are the shortcomings of the device in its class? why buy people a iphone and not a n900?

Re: Why N900 failed on consumer market ?
 

nope. you probably couldn't have got that more wrong. I am not sure when the whole 5 step program was invented but probably before 770 was released. So nokia probably had already plans about 4 iterations to 770 letting it grow slowly and mature and the final 4th iteration would have been the device that now isn't released because meego shuffled the cards (but it had a lot to contribute for meego and without it there would be no meego for nokia mobiles).

their plan was (is) to start from scratch and create brand new as-open-as-possible os with help of a community. 770 was purely for hackers who didn't mind xterming all the time, N800 was for developers etc too and so was N810 (though N800 got same FW updates than N810 had). And last step before the "real" launch was...

...N900, for tech oriented, early adopters etc (in addition to hackers, devs, etc -mantra). UI has been totally rewritten, usability has increased, especially finger input. but still it isn't polished product and never intended to be such.

Re: Why N900 failed on consumer market ?
 

I saw an article in a very cool T3 Jul/Aug edition - The ultimate smartphone guide; reviewing Nokia (N900), WinMo, iPhone, Android, Blackberry

Re: Why N900 failed on consumer market ?
 

"Nokia's been very clear that the N900 was launched as a means to strengthen its Maemo development community (on the path to MeeGo we now know)."

And has it? It seems to me that Nokia has alienated some key players in the Maemo community.

Re: Why N900 failed on consumer market ?
 

like - ... yourself?

Re: Why N900 failed on consumer market ?
 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_superiority

Know your bias.

Re: Why N900 failed on consumer market ?
 

This is just a crazy extension of debate.

The N900 was being presented as the smartest smartphone yet made, articles referenced the Iphone, Blackberry, etc.

It was publicized, hyped, anticipated, Nokia put it in general release, & then stated that it was the end of the line for the phone's OS.

Nokia Betamaxed the N900 almost immediately after getting it to market. Only the curious, not practical, bought the phone because its software support was obviously going to go as dry as the desert since it was rationally perceived as a dead technology already.

Re: Why N900 failed on consumer market ?
 

Originally Posted by theonelaw
Failed??

It is a machine for the intelligent geek.
In that it has succeeded beyond any other device out there.

If I met someone carrying and using an n900 I would know instantly
that they are definitely not a dimwit or a *****,
regardless of whatever else they may behave as.

I absolutely cannot say that about people who rely upon iPhones, Android etc.
Not they they are all hopelessly clueless,
(many use those devices because they have no time/talent for tinkering
and-or maybe depend upon it for basic functionalities, trendiness, etc.)
but that you cannot judge that book by its cover as well as you can the n900.

With the n900 there is a prerequisite of some spark of intelligence
just to be able to use it for more than a paperweight or fashion accessory.
(Yes, there seems to be slew of apps just to make it exactly such a thing despite all that)

Sir i respectfully beg to differ...the want or need of a person to tinker with their phone depends on their profession. i for example as a soon to be doctor want to substitute the n900 for a netbook mostly using it as an ebook reader,document viewer/editing and powerpoint presentation. But i do want to customize or tinker my phone to my liking but I would like it to do it in a safe way and not "bricking" it. And i also do want many other apps on it but i don't have time to go through the complex steps of installing it. To sum it up i want a customizable phone-tablet but as much as possible it should be user-friendly and brick-proof...only a ST*PID person would tinker with a n900 especially if they aren't that familiar with the OS....now that's true INTELLIGENCE...besides its hard to believe that the n900 market succeeded if it sold only more than 100,000 units world wide...and most importantly don't think that just because you bought a n900 means that it is successful.....common sense please...^_^

Re: Why N900 failed on consumer market ?
 

The hardware surely isn't dead tech since it's capable of having multiple OS' on it..? Nitdroid, Debian, Meego.

Maemo was a means to an end as I understand it from people who probably know more than I do here.. the end is in sight? Meego..?

If thats the case and this thread isnt talking about hardware but its talking about OS.. then Nokia has Navteq (potentialy competitive to Google as a search and add tool), it has the basis for a very usable OS (Maemo), it has a library of app's which can be ported to Meego?

Re: Why N900 failed on consumer market ?
 

Wow, worst analogy ever. Would you like to try again?

Re: Why N900 failed on consumer market ?
 

this actually is the thing you got wrong. meego is the only of the three which supports the phone. and you don't know how long that will last.

Re: Why N900 failed on consumer market ?
 

More than a year before the release of the N900, Nokia announced that the Maemo 5 to Maemo 6 transition would bring a fundamental change, a switch from GTK to Qt. While it's certainly disappointing that Nokia has continued their tendency to not provide polished, officially supported releases of new Maemo versions for past Maemo devices, they didn't hide the fact that major changes were looming in Maemo's future.

At Maemo Summit 2009, prior to the release of the N900, Nokia even announced that Maemo 6's UI would assume the presence of a multitouch, capacitive screen. So, we knew Maemo 6 would bring major changes, and we knew we had received only murky, at best mixed, signals as to whether Maemo 6 might ever run on the N900. The surprise that followed the release of the N900 was that the marketing folks had decided to relabel "Maemo 6" as "MeeGo 1.0N".

What's in a name? Even Nokia's own (non-marketing) employees have an amusing tendency to still call Harmattan "Maemo 6".

Re: Why N900 failed on consumer market ?
 

most consumers expect a phone that "just works"

n900 is NOT a phone that "just works"

hell the n900 is not a super hit amongst techies in my experience (i work in IT as a BA and I am the only one with a n900, all the architects, coders and testers have andriod and iphones)

Re: Why N900 failed on consumer market ?
 

Just for your interest, there is a university that may not be heard among techies you acquainted with believe N900 might just work: http://www.stanford.edu/class/ee282/...amming.4pp.pdf

They're just wasting students's time on something from strange foreign country that not works. I must write to Arnold Schwarzenegger to do something about it, or I'll not watch any of his movie ever again.

Re: Why N900 failed on consumer market ?
 

Oh great, now you need to take a uni class to get qualified to handle an n900.

Re: Why N900 failed on consumer market ?
 

maybe a replacement for the mmix?
scnr

Re: Why N900 failed on consumer market ?
 

N97 is the Nokia phone from 2009 that failed in the consumer market. N900 sold better than expected. Even some consumers bought it.

Re: Why N900 failed on consumer market ?
 

In train station,there were 100 ppls with phones,40 had Iphone coz it is a Fashion statement,45 had android coz there r too many of them(10 or 20 model released every week),14 had symbian(s40,s60,s/\3) and i am with N900,:D
i am the :cool: one.

I'm Loving it

Re: Why N900 failed on consumer market ?
 

*lol* besides standford students?

no serious: the n900 is not that bad? is it?

Re: Why N900 failed on consumer market ?
 

Now I know why N900 failed in the consumer market, it's Stanford's fault. That class scares people like you away. That's bad.

Anyway, I must assure you that the class is supposed to teach you *programming* with N900 (and some trivial junks like embedded system architecture etc.).

So don't worry, take it easy, you don't need to take this class for just handling N900. You may continue to use it now. Good good.

Re: Why N900 failed on consumer market ?
 

I don't get this question. N900 dominates on the market it was designed to please.

Re: Why N900 failed on consumer market ?
 

No, it really doesn't.

Sure, but by and large most people will never go down that route.

They are delivering a well tuned and integrated experience.

NO. End users do not buy devices because they are locked down. Being locked down in no way confers Apple an advantage over their competitors. The integrated experience between the App Store and iTunes delivers everything that makes the iProduct experience good.

The average user won't brick any device short of unplugging it during an update. And even Apple's control doesn't guarantee that every device will update cleanly.

Irrelevant. Most people won't do it and won't care but there's no justification for blocking those that do unless you have other reasons for it.

No such machine exists.

And not a damn bit of that has anything to do with locking down the device. None of it.

No, if the user experience sucks and the device is poorly advertised then it will sell badly. If the user experience is good and it is well advertised, it will probably sell well regardless of how open the device is.

Except that there'd be absolutely zero point in that. Why support an OS like MeeGo when you're just moving all your users to Android in the end, anyway? And Symbian... I don't care about Symbian.

Re: Why N900 failed on consumer market ?
 

for me it boils down to this:

- if the folks buy an iphone for it is from apple and they want to be parented by apple: well their choice. nothing todo.
- if the folks choose android for they love google and they wamt to be parented by google: same story:nothing todo.

but if there are is room for improvement for linux based devices(and i think there is a lot) and the folks don't want the n900 for it doesn't serve their needs somehow i am all ear. some feature a consumer might want the n900 doesn't have(think there is some)?
whats about battery lifetime - is that an issue?

Re: Why N900 failed on consumer market ?
 

i don't know about the n900 sales on the rest of the world. but it flopped here in the philippines. one advantage though that i have on having an n900 is that i stand out coz i'm unique.

Re: Why N900 failed on consumer market ?
 

bro im planning to buy the n900, worth it ba? may updates na ba satin ng PR 1.3? and nkakabili ba s nokia ng license s docs to go?

Re: Why N900 failed on consumer market ?
 

I believe all these notion about N900 failed on consumer market is flawed. We are comparing Apple iPhone/Android when the N900 was targeted at a different market segment in the first place. The form and function would already tell you, 'don't compare the N900 with a slim and sexy iPhone'.

Did it sell any phones? - We know at least 100,000 globally in 5 weeks back in 2009.
Did consumers buy it? - We did. I'm not a tech person, but I bought it, and am enjoying using it.
Did the phone and all it's advertised functions worked? - So far I'm only seeing some complaint on fMMS - and that's because of some user's expectation of MMS service.
Did it achieve Nokia's objective to strengthen its Maemo development community - For an average non-tech person perspective of this Maemo forum, it looks pretty successful. What do you think? Any benchmark we could use to prove it failed again in this area?
Did it create the platform for other devices with this OS? - Well, you could say it paved the way for Meego/N9?
Did it achieve Nokia sales targets? We'll never know that.

Let's see what some tech reviews say about it...

Cnet's editor ratings 3.5/5.0 (very good)
Average user rating 4.0/5.0
Recommendation: While it has yet to reach its full potential, the Nokia N900 is a powerful mobile device with excellent browsing capabilities and vast customization options. However, its unintuitive interface and other limitations make this a smartphone for tech enthusiasts and early adopters only.
http://reviews.cnet.com/smartphones/...-33770010.html

Engadget recommendation: Is it a keeper? As a daily workhorse smartphone for your average Jill or Joe, it's impossible to recommend the N900 at this point; it's just missing too much functionality that's waiting to be written by some enterprising CS grad students with spare time on their hands. As a second, dedicated browsing device or a geeky weekend hobby, though -- possibly an upgrade from an N810 -- the N900 is a very compelling device indeed, as long as you remember one simple rule: it's a computer with a phone, not a phone that can compute.
http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/19/nokia-n900-review/

Stuff says: Speed + Performance. The Nokia N900 is one of the most powerful phones on the planet. It's a computer in your pocket that allows you to communicate in every way imaginable.
http://n900.stuff.tv/

T3 recommendation: With a customisable interface, great multimedia features and capable browser, the N900 is far better than any Nokia handset we’ve seen in along time. In terms of browsing and sheer multitasking capability, it’s also superior to other smartphone rivals.
http://www.t3.com/reviews/phones/mob...ia-n900-review
Voted #65 on T3 Hot 100 (by the way, #3 was Microsoft Project Natal, #2 HTC Desire, #1 Apple iPAD)

Who still thinks N900 failed on consumer market?

Re: Why N900 failed on consumer market ?
 

Here you go:
http://www.techknots.com/mobiles/nok...disappointing/

Re: Why N900 failed on consumer market ?
 

well, aside from psfreedom, web browsing and basic phone functions. i'd say it's a 5 out of 10.

yes im running 1.3 right now. although i find the previous version better and the image scrolling in 1.3 is laggy.

don't know how the app licensing works bro e.

all in all, if you're into fun, don't get it. up to now i'm still looking for a good reason to justify the $550 i spent on this thing.

i'm not discouraging you bro. just being honest and trying to save you from a long and painful love/hate relationship with a handset.

Re: Why N900 failed on consumer market ?
 

What is going on???

Nokia sold less than 100,000 N900 in its first five months on the market, researcher Gartner said.
Nokia told that more than 100,000 N900s sold in the first five weeks -- not months -- globally.

Is researcher Gartner limited to one country, or is a serious contradiction here?

What data did Gartner use?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If you are worried about price, find a contest. Like here:
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...866#post881866