Re: A little confuised on the N900/Maemo haters... please explain.
 

Couldn't have put it better myself.

Re: A little confuised on the N900/Maemo haters... please explain.
 

I love you man :D give me a big hug :p

Re: A little confuised on the N900/Maemo haters... please explain.
 

If you're able to overlook his very acerbic way of speaking... strip away the vitriol and you have a counterpoint to the blind faith love-fest that's deeply entrenched in these parts.

Simply put, despite his tone, I can see his point, can even agree with parts of it.

Re: A little confuised on the N900/Maemo haters... please explain.
 

The problem is his acidic, aggressive tone detracts from his point, much like querty12's blow up and departure. Not to mention that he spends most of his time deliberately trying to incite flamewars and dropping useless turds on other threads.

So if he has a valid point, it's completely lost in the noise.

Re: A little confuised on the N900/Maemo haters... please explain.
 

I remember when the same things were said about me.

Big whoop. You wanna fight about it? ;)

Re: A little confuised on the N900/Maemo haters... please explain.
 

Don't you mean their arses?

Re: A little confuised on the N900/Maemo haters... please explain.
 

Doubt noone hate maemo. Maybe one or two that was tricked in to this strange OS and couldn't find the way out of the maze. Always happens.

Doubt noone hate n900, except for a few people that really didn't understand how thick the n900 really is. Of course these people thought they bought and Iphone, they didn't

The beef is with nokia so leave the n900/Maemo out of this...Strange thread headline indeed.

Re: A little confuised on the N900/Maemo haters... please explain.
 

I love my n900 as a handset, but also very dissapointed in the lack of progress and input that nokia and meamo have put in. Seems to be a handset that they have forgetten about, im not a n900 hater as i love my device as i said.

Re: A little confuised on the N900/Maemo haters... please explain.
 

Yea sure. I have never ever had a phone this long. 1 year and 2 months (or three), way too long time, I have lost the count. I am bored to insanity of the device, bored of Nitroid, bored of MeeGo that is hardly working, (I won't even mention the lack of "default" MMS), bored of no more updates.

But the thing is, there is nothing better out there. Android, iPhone, Bada, Palm, WP7, they are all out of the question (well maybe not WP7 just yet). So unless Nokia get their fingers out and deliver a better gadget, I am stuck with this device forever. So come on Nokia - do something !!!

Re: A little confuised on the N900/Maemo haters... please explain.
 

yes it is the painful truth. business is business, as long as they got the money and can get away with not supporting the product after. why not? i remember someone disagreeing with me before in another thread here while citing that given fact.

Re: A little confuised on the N900/Maemo haters... please explain.
 

No, that's what's known as the cowards way out, son. Ad hominems don't negate the truth of his posts.

Re: A little confuised on the N900/Maemo haters... please explain.
 

I can't really go back on anything else.... I'm a spoiled child now, all because of the bloody N900. Missing mine and eagerly waiting for its return from the repair centre.

Re: A little confuised on the N900/Maemo haters... please explain.
 

we need a petition to say give us the n900-2 with latest hardware upgrades and a few bug fixes in the software side of things and i would buy it. Imagine the n900 with latest mobile processors

Re: A little confuised on the N900/Maemo haters... please explain.
 

The N900 is almost 2 years since launching. Do you seriously think a 2-year old ARM can support tomorrow's newer application requirements?

Just fill up your N900 32Gb with all the available (and useful) apps today and enjoy it. It's still a great multitasking device and has some nice functionality. Use it as a secondary mobile laptop or mutimedia device, or whatever.

Unless you just need to/must have the latest gadgets.

Re: A little confuised on the N900/Maemo haters... please explain.
 

Incorrect.

You.

In line. Actually beyond expectation. I always think Nokia made lousy phones until N900.

Bonus answer: you don't read what someone wrote before asking question do you?

Re: A little confuised on the N900/Maemo haters... please explain.
 

Yes I know. I just responded to your post with my opinions. No offended intended. My apology if I did. ;)

Very true. My first N900 is defective, DOA actually. I got it replaced immediately instead of struggling with it.

You seem to have lots of fun there. :D

Nokia doesn't give me the same image as you've perceived. If I'm subjected to brand effect, I'd have bought iPhone not N900, as I always think Nokia manufacturing bloated, bulky and over-priced phones, while Apple is always creative. I chose N900 for what it is. I hope I'm not alone in this. (...am I ;) )

I'm interested to how many people fell for N900 simply because of the brand 'Nokia'. ;)

Re: A little confuised on the N900/Maemo haters... please explain.
 

100% disagree. For instance, if you buy nothing but AMD or Intel, you do so because of a prior good experience or the experiences of your peers.

Then why did you take a risk with your purchase of the N900? And you can't say Linux. There were other Linux phones before the N900.

Re: A little confuised on the N900/Maemo haters... please explain.
 

Hi there.

I'm not sure if you've used the appropriate analogy here, as AMD and Intel are literally oligopolies.

I said incorrect because his question is leading to the implication that bigger brand creating more positive images. In where I live majority believes that bigger brand cheat more. If we're all subjected to brand effect then why don't we all go for iPhone? It's made by the manufacturer with excellent track records, with products of high creativeness and has a charismatic leader.

Well, why do you have to ask when you know the answer better? ;)

Re: A little confuised on the N900/Maemo haters... please explain.
 

It's true. A lot of research tells us that our experiences affects our perception (or positioning) of products and brands.

Read Al Ries and Jack Trout series on Positioning (and Re-Positioning). Definitely a MUST read for the folks at Nokia!!!

Re: A little confuised on the N900/Maemo haters... please explain.
 

this is sad i've been a nokia fan for as long as i can remember. Had 5 phones from Nokia. Was always the first to get them. THey were always the most innovative imo but these few years its nothing but disappointment after the n95.

Got the n97 to replace n95, MAJOR disappointment, thing is slow as hell and the integration of symbian with touch was absolutely horrific.

Changed to n900, was extremely satisfied with it though it overheats sometimes and battery life was so short but after pr1.3 update,everything went smooth and silky.

But I've been waiting for the flash update since forever, I cannot believe Nokia would leave us behind because I believe it's people who are teksavvy and a nokia fan would buy this product. I cannot even view some video from facebook/msn video since they are pushing flash 9 out, evntually our so called "tablet" won't be a tablet anymore, it's going to be deemed useless. I think I've been very patient with Nokia already, but If nothing is release for another month, I will switch to Andriod no questions asked and never buy another nokia phone ever. Unbelievable.

Re: A little confuised on the N900/Maemo haters... please explain.
 

Greetings. Nice to meet you as well.

The analogy holds. Some people will never buy AMD because they're fully behind Intel. And vice versa. That kind of brand loyalty - be it Chevy versus Ford, Lamborghini vs. Ferrari, Coke vs. Pepsi, German beer vs. Belgium beer, Levi vs. Lee jeans... the list continues and you get what I mean.

People stand behind brands because of experience(s) and how positive or negative they were to them.

I think he was stating that brand loyalty comes from positive experiences. Blind brand loyalty is lunacy.

Because I'd love an honest answer.

Re: A little confuised on the N900/Maemo haters... please explain.
 

I like a lot my N900, but nokia has been doing a shitty job when it comes to support. I'm planning on changing on the Xperia Play (if available), or will wait for the Meego phones (not from Nokia).

With luck, Meego will have more applications and more support from different developers.

Re: A little confuised on the N900/Maemo haters... please explain.
 

If you add negative into your point then I must agree with you. ;)

I hope I'm not bored you with my personal experience, but since you ask...here I go :D

It's true that I chose N900 because I can hack with it, but it dosen't mean we couldn't hack WM/WP, Android or iOS. Android can be hacked easily but you still you feel like shackled. In fact you get most pleasurable experience hacking with WM(never use WP) but you feel dirty, so dirty that you want to reflash from time to time so as to make it clean again haha. I've very little experience hacking with iOS, just helping friends jailbreaking their iPhones, but hacking with iOS makes you feel like you're committing crimes, and in fact Apple threaten you from time to time you're not supposed to do so that bothered me.

Hacking in N900 is allowed, encouraged and systematic. You don't need to do it dirtily as you've guidelines to follow. You won't feel as guilty because no one would threaten you from time to time you're doing illegal things. You can give back to communities for what you've done and those who aren't into hacking could enjoy your work. I could go on but I think you need a rest after reading these. ;)

Re: A little confuised on the N900/Maemo haters... please explain.
 

I can understand and get behind that sentiment fully. Thank you for your honest answer.

I still found it odd that you thought Nokia made crappy phones (paraphrase) before though.

Re: A little confuised on the N900/Maemo haters... please explain.
 

Not really crap. I chose my words carefully when describing it :D : bloated (or over-rated. Their phones have much less features than their rivals nowaday), lousy (actually I mean the design...they don't seem to want to make good-looking phones after 6500), bulky (N900 is not the thickest phone they ever made :D) and over-priced (Ok Apple's iPhone beat them fair-and-square in this so I think I should take it back ;) )

Re: A little confuised on the N900/Maemo haters... please explain.
 

My personal thoughts...I think Nokia makes a lot of terribly ugly looking phones (recall the N-gage era), and once in a while, a few gorgeous (E65, N8, E7, C6-01) and unique phones (N900).

Re: A little confuised on the N900/Maemo haters... please explain.
 

Hmm, I think you missed the point of my post and you're warping reality to conform to your beliefs.

But that's ok.
(not my loss)

On topic: Nokia has been consistent in delivering durable and well designed phones during the candybar era. Their ui/ux had been top notch.

It's only if you learn of Nokia during the past 3-4 years that you would associate them with (declining) design and poor(er) UI/UX. This is in-line with their declining marketshare as well.

Re: A little confuised on the N900/Maemo haters... please explain.
 

I found it irony to receive such a statement from someone who always asks leading questions. :D

It's okay to discover someone who doesn't comform to your beliefs. That's reality. Get over with it.

Not that I care Nokia's marketshare, did I? :D

(Hey I found your method to hide message sneaky but interesting. It was not until I reply would I figure it out. Thanks for the tips . ^^)

Re: A little confuised on the N900/Maemo haters... please explain.
 

@9000: If you felt you were 'lead' somewhere, it may be because I've presented some facts and history in my post that supported what I was implying.

Nokia's declining marketshare represented public interest to Nokia's product (and brand), among the many options in the market.

Yep, that was the point of these texts.

Re: A little confuised on the N900/Maemo haters... please explain.
 

Yes, we admit he's even worse.

But he writes as if a community of coders came out of nowhere to rescue us. The fact is that the community was here way before the N900. Nokia knew that and so did we.

Re: A little confuised on the N900/Maemo haters... please explain.
 

Unless you're a major religious leader, of course you must bring up some facts to support your opinions. However, wether the facts could be enough to support your believes is questionable, which I've already answered, with bonus!

Again, I'm rather uninterested in the direction you're leading, but since you insist on bringing it up, then I assume you think this should be on-topic. Then tell me, how does this 'fact' corelate to the motivation behind people like you sticking around here just for reminding people from time to time how bad N900, maemo and Nokia, comparing to Android Phones and iPhone etc. are?

Or you believe there's any economic influental factors to adversely affect Nokia's marketshare just by saying bad things about Nokia here?

Well....then the reality you preceived is just barely enough to fit your ego

Re: A little confuised on the N900/Maemo haters... please explain.
 

The N900 is my first Nokia. I have been using Linux for almost 20 years now, and I bought the phone because it offered direct access to the underlying Linux OS.

I am not disappointed, except for the limited synchronizing abilities with other Linux systems. Mappero is a good routeplanner, networking goes smoothly. Tethering my laptop over BT also works well. No, I don't do games or listen to music, but I have a lot of scripts that do backups and other stuff.

It seems to me that Nokia does support the N900 badly, and I will keep that in mind when shopping for my next phone, although I certainly do not intend to buy a new one in the next few years, unless the usb connector breaks.

Paai

Re: A little confuised on the N900/Maemo haters... please explain.
 

If that community was here before or after the N900 is not the concern here - we know the community was here (I've been around since mid-2007).

Just that the community projects (fMMS, the One Ring, and a couple of others for instance) existed is enough to support the notion that the community is doing a kickass level of support whereas Nokia hadn't.

Too bad some of the higher profile community projects like Mauku (for instance) didn't continue getting updates.

And to write somebody off so quickly - it's so damn easy to do - as a troll because they think differently or see things differently or that you've not taken the time to see things through their eyes is all too common here.

I'm not taking up for anybody. Just saying that even the worse jackass might have a point to make or so.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Re: A little confuised on the N900/Maemo haters... please explain.
 

I presented points (and questions) in general that I would think answer the question through common sense.

You replied to my posts repeatedly with subjective remarks; on how you viewed things. Which I've found to be against the common sense. Your personal preference.
(This is fine, but you should see the futility of this exercise from the get go.)

Btw, my initial post on this subject was in line with the topic. It explained the 'n900 haters'. That n900 was not aligned with the Nokia brand. This has repeatedly been confirmed by many TMO users here by the explanation that 'the n900 is step 4of5, not ready for public, etc.'

As I've said in my previous post. It shouldn't be hard to understand.

'people like you'.... what does that mean?

Someone who've been here since 2007, having owned multiple maemo devices, including the n900 and following the maemo development?

Someone who've been using Nokia since the candybar and communicator era, and hoping they can make a good transition to the next step?

Someone who've used *nix systems for more than a decade; but who also can understand the different needs and expectations from different form factors and also different requirements by different people?

F___ you.
Get into the discussions. Don't get into people's lives.

Astroturfing on a forum is a futile exercise. There are so many other more cost efficient ways to achieve that objective.

Re: A little confuised on the N900/Maemo haters... please explain.
 

Yes why? It must be the apps pushing culture ,
the "for the iPhone" ,
the "on your Blackberry" ,
"version for Android available"

that creates an undefined unsatisfactory feeling when being confronted with a Maemo - "it has about everything you need extra" IF you are prepared to do some minimal research effort (effort through which you may - oh beware - apprehend some computer OS skills).


As a second,
Certification of apps by Apple and competitors largely prevents users messing up (slowing down the device to the degree of not being able to successfully answer an incoming phone call) a phone's OS by installing 10 or more fun apps / day.

Every since the mouse and graphical user interface became common ground many people feel more confident to install simple software or "free software".
What not seldom happens next is that they mess up their (Windows) pc and the local nerd is called to help to clean (speed) it up.

Certification of apps by Apple and competitors largely prevents users messing up (slowing down the device to the degree of not being able to successfully answer an incoming phone call) a phone's OS by installing 10 or more fun apps / day.

Who said everybody including grandmother needs to be a software installation expert without reading the manual?

In an ideal nerdworld smartphones or at least the professional applications running on those devices should not be considered "simple" and nerds lurking on talk.maemo.org would be busy all day earning good money by installing software and preparing N900's for customized (corporate) use.

As Smartphones move to be more PC-like, we are not going to see PC OS-es and programs to be degraded to the same level of easy and user friendly and harmless (as long as you don't consider privacy theft as harmful) like found on smartphones are we? Everybody administrator, Apple prevents and monitors in advance, Google "fixes" problems remotely.
Oh yes, Apple has already ported its app shop concept.

Anyway to get back to the N900, I find that "for mobile" sounds like adjusted for incapable device running a thinned version of some web service while marketing department tries and succeeds to promote these limitations as the standard to live by with the shortcomings being masked and compensated by the presence of a phone function, camera, GPS, portability and GAMES, millions of them.

The N900 does not dumb down the mobile internet experience like those other devices out there.

User friendly however starts after somebody with experience has configured the whole thing to fit the usage pattern of the user.

Unfortunately Nokia let Maemo and its supporters down so that typical corporate level software (email client for example) has yet to appear.
It is unforgivable that they promote flash then don't support flash all the way till it turns obsolete.

Since I first got hands on the N900 I have felt totally familiar with this device as it does such a good job in emulating the PC feeling. (being it an older model of PC, just good to surf)

That in some multitasking situations the device tends to lag like our unoptimised 2001 Windows XP PC with only 256 RAM would in theory be easily solved through hardware evolution.
And there I wish I could keep the resistive screen and upgrade the RAM to 512MB or 1GB, the CPU to dual core, the battery when new tech emerges.

And see Maemo unleashed and head to head against "modern smartphone os-es of 2011 and beyond. :p


And finally, is the out-of-the-box experience of Maemo that bad for people who did not do research on Meamo/N900?
The user interface is very ahead of it's time.

Depending on your specific demand it might just do a lot of things better than competing devices. (like uploading pictures to Flickr for example)

I think we should not withhold to recommend this stuff to other people as long as we are honest enough that a creative tech demo does not fit everybody's daily usage pattern

And that there are still people looking for somebody to explain them:

-how to backup user content
-how to end tasks to reliably receive incoming calls
-how to disconnect a cable from USB without lateral movement
-that whatever the N900 learns them to do is a step ahead in being a smart computer user

Re: A little confuised on the N900/Maemo haters... please explain.
 

9000, you are the one who looks bad after this interchange.

Re: A little confuised on the N900/Maemo haters... please explain.
 

I don't think you want me to fuel your rage further by replying to this :) So I'll leave it at that. (Remember the last time when you had to write in mandarin in this forum?)

If you want to debate on topic, then I'd be glad to continue.

I personally think understanding why 'people hate n900' is essential for maemo/MeeGo to progress.

Re: A little confuised on the N900/Maemo haters... please explain.
 

I'd also be glad to continue if you refrain from using f-words or bringing up your personal references thanks.

Re: A little confuised on the N900/Maemo haters... please explain.
 

>You can write your own apps for anything. Even iPhones

Well, not without paying Apple even more money ...

Re: A little confuised on the N900/Maemo haters... please explain.
 

You need to pay Apple the yearly subscription only if you want to publish your app through their store.