maemo.org - Talk - The EPIC N9 anticipation thread

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maemo.org - Talk (https://talk.maemo.org/index.php)

- Nokia N9 / N950 (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=51)

- - The EPIC N9 anticipation thread (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=72977)

richwhite

2011-05-12 03:11

Re: N9 hits FCC???

Quote:

Originally Posted by sevla (Post 1004612)

THis is incorrect. Quim has said that although the code is not entirely Meego it is also no where near Maemo. In reality it is more meego then maemo5. People need to just accept that.

Also,. Nokia plans to make it compatible with the official Meego builds so that it will get updates, etc..

So even if Nokia drop support for this it'll still get updates as MeeGo develops?

Pillum

2011-05-12 03:39

Re: N9 hits FCC???

I see no references to an FM Transmitter...does this mean this wont have some or isn't it the task of the FCC to check this too?

olighak

2011-05-12 04:07

Re: N9 hits FCC???

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pillum (Post 1004620)

I see no references to an FM Transmitter...does this mean this wont have some or isn't it the task of the FCC to check this too?

FM transmitters are tested as well, and would be mentioned.

See the test reports for the N900:
https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/...%27LJPRX-51%27

So if there´s a chip in there that can transmit on FM then there are no drivers for it and no intentions to make it usable at all.

railroadmaster

2011-05-12 04:12

Re: N9 hits FCC???

Wow it Nokia this long, finally a MeeGo device to sink my teeth into.

daperl

2011-05-12 04:15

Re: N9 hits FCC???

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomchiverton (Post 1004403)

Who cares about how many cores or a discrete GPU ?

Those of us that follow and have a solid understanding of technology do. We're multitaskers and we need multitasking monsters that are very responsive while running a desktop-quality OS.

Multicores, DSPs, GPUs, oh my!

richwhite

2011-05-12 04:28

Re: N9 hits FCC???

Quote:

Originally Posted by olighak (Post 1004628)

So basically this won't have an FM transmitter? Damn...

BigBadGuber!

2011-05-12 04:44

Re: N9 hits FCC???

It will be the stuff of legends. Period. Whoever doubts it is a major loser!

jo21	2011-05-12 05:13

Re: N9 hits FCC???

qwerty good camera + xenon class :< i will jump on a dead platform again.

never on wp7 though

Pillum

2011-05-12 05:29

Re: N9 hits FCC???

what if its able to run MeeGo with all functions and features?

tirtawn

2011-05-12 05:31

Re: N9 hits FCC???

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBadGuber! (Post 1004641)

It will be the stuff of legends. Period. Whoever doubts it is a major loser!

Hm............we shall see about that. You will be surprised with Nokia. Sometimes I am not sure what are they thinking. lets see whether they are going to give "better processor", memory and better LCD. Otherwise will stick with n900.

geohsia

2011-05-12 06:00

Re: N9 hits FCC???

Quote:

Originally Posted by jo21 (Post 1004646)

qwerty good camera + xenon class :< i will jump on a dead platform again.

never on wp7 though

I agree. The possibility of RAW with a decent camera (no weird vignetting issue like we have with the N900) would get me back on the platform.

IcyMoustache

2011-05-12 06:34

Re: N9 hits FCC???

for all you know the Elop bi@ch might have intended this for his Microsoft dickOS...

Dont get ur hopes too high for this shitnokia..

zehjotkah

2011-05-12 06:41

Re: N9 hits FCC???

Quote:

Originally Posted by IcyMoustache (Post 1004665)

for all you know the Elop bi@ch might have intended this for his Microsoft dickOS...

Dont get ur hopes too high for this shitnokia..

won't run WinPhone7

OVK	2011-05-12 06:50

Re: N9 hits FCC???

Quote:

Originally Posted by mece (Post 1004522)

(source: Zehjotkah's tweets)

There are some interesting pieces of information...

blipnl

2011-05-12 06:56

Re: N9 hits FCC???

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxximuscool (Post 1004546)

My hardware prediction:

Processor: Ti 36xx 1Ghz + PowerVGR540
RAM: 512MB
Camera: 5MP-Rear-LED flash (720p 25fps) + 0.6Mp-Font
Screen: Capacitive touch 4" 800x400
Internal: 16GB or 32GB
OS: Harmattan MeeGo transition
Supported media: 720p
WLAN: b/g/N
Bluetooth: 2.1
Extention: MicroSD

Here is the link: http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokia...china/#3277330

If that is (close to) truth, I feel almoast no urge to update my thrustworthy n900 for this.

CPU @1GHz? done that.
5Mpix? You kidding me right?
Bigger screen is better, but the pixel density is noticalby worse, not to mention the awekward precision of capacitive screens..
The rest is somewhat comparable and therefore outdated, but I still can't jump to conclusions yet, gotte see how and if MeeGo will fit in this picture.

Stonik

2011-05-12 06:58

Re: N9 hits FCC???

Mark Guim (the Nokia Blog) says, that the new device will be given to devs first and won't be available for consumers until some time after. Their 'tipster' has said that Nokia won't announce it at the MeeGo Conference, but he - as we all - hope the tipster is wrong.

Personally - I probably wouldn't buy N9/N950 if it was using single core processor. Dual core A9 + SGX543, thank you.

maakoi

2011-05-12 07:09

Re: N9 hits FCC???

Does anyone actually have any facts that dual-core processors are necessarily any faster or energy-efficient than single core? I personally think that there's more to hardware than just "easy-to-compare" numbers, and drooling over a quad-core just tells that one understands less than he thinks he does.

I still think the N900 is close to perfect, if it just had an even better camera and ovi maps navigation.
-Ok ok, I admit that some hardware aspects could be tweaked.

slender

2011-05-12 07:19

Re: N9 hits FCC???

What apps are optimized for dual ARM processors? Is Android or Meego optimized for dual processors? Is there real-life benchmarks on identical systems except on CPU?

I also would like to have dual-core as must-have feature if my daily usage of N900 consisted packing/extracting of Large OS images and files. Also doing some encoding of audio/video could be boosted with high power cpu. Of course Desktop PC would do all that in 1/1000 of time but still... /sarcasm

What we need is optimized bug free code. Moreover taking advantage of all instruction sets that are already in CPU and GPU. Without doubt horsepower is also needed, but quality of code and moreover memory handling are probably key issues.

anonymous

2011-05-12 07:20

Re: N9 hits FCC???

http://i.imgur.com/KqW33.gif

snubmoggy

2011-05-12 07:49

Re: N9 hits FCC???

Quote:

Originally Posted by zehjotkah (Post 1004667)

won't run WinPhone7

Is that 100% for sure? - that this phone can't run WP7?

While I would love to see meego I do fear that this could be the first WP7 phone.

Also, (what seems to be) an EDOF camera and no FM transmitter are starting to harness my excitement levels...

zehjotkah

2011-05-12 07:55

Re: N9 hits FCC???

Quote:

Originally Posted by snubmoggy (Post 1004691)

Im repeating myself^^
No WP7 phone.
No EDOF camera
No FM-Transmitter only for dev-device (afaik)

edit: even if I wouldn't know some informations:
WP7 can't run properly in landscape atm. RM-680 is a landscape device.

snubmoggy

2011-05-12 08:11

Re: N9 hits FCC???

Quote:

Originally Posted by zehjotkah (Post 1004693)

Repeating yourself isn't healthy...

Yes, no WP7 landscape at the moment. But there can be no doubt that Microsoft are working hard on a landscape orientation for future.

sony123

2011-05-12 08:16

Re: N9 hits FCC???

I'm confused reading zehjotkah's tweets.
The plan sounds so familiar with Maemo5, when originally we were hinted there would be two devices running M5. The 2nd device was said to be launched about half a year later than N900.

I am purely speculating.... seems like the plan is:
RM680: developer device, hw-wise not necessarily the same as N950 (no FM, maybe lesser CPU)
N950: Summer? Fall?
Second commercial device: Early 2012 depending on sale of N950?

Anyway, we'll know better the closer we get to the conference.

geohsia

2011-05-12 09:07

Re: N9 hits FCC???

Quote:

Originally Posted by slender (Post 1004679)

What apps are optimized for dual ARM processors? Is Android or Meego optimized for dual processors? Is there real-life benchmarks on identical systems except on CPU?

Dual core is beneficial not just for multi-core optimized apps. How many people have / had the problem when the phone won't answer there are too many apps open and the phone rings but the interface doesn't respond. When I am driving, I use OVI maps (w/ GPS ), have Google Maps in the background because OVI Maps isn't always right, and am also streaming music in the background. In that state, any input is incredibly slow and difficult. Would dual core help? hope so. Dual-core is helpful for power users, which I thought was this group. I could be wrong.

Quote:

What we need is optimized bug free code. Moreover taking advantage of all instruction sets that are already in CPU and GPU. Without doubt horsepower is also needed, but quality of code and moreover memory handling are probably key issues.

Sure, but how long did it take for the community to do that? As far as I know OVI maps is still a resource hog.

By your last statement you've probably given the greatest argument for dual-core. The fact of the matter is that Nokia does not plan on spending tons of resources on MeeGo. Right? Having said that Nokia once they get the checkmark (OVI Maps, web browser, and etc.) isn't going to spend a ton of time writing and re-writing code to make it super efficient. For what, 90k+ users? Give me a break. Until things get worked out, the software will likely be buggy and not optimized. You'll be glad for ever extra Megahertz you can get your hands on.

maakoi

2011-05-12 09:22

Re: N9 hits FCC???

Doesn't N900 actually have two separate cpus? The main one at 250-600 MHz and one at 400 for handling radio communications?

I have tried overclocking and must say that it doesn't speed up the device as much as expected. Possibly the the other components are optimized together with the cpu at 600, so when you overclock, other things become a bottleneck?

Sorry this was a bit off-topic

Jedibeeftrix

2011-05-12 09:27

Re: N9 hits FCC???

what i want from the n950

1. dual-core A9 - this may be all we get for a while, it needs legs!

2. 4" qHD screen - rockin like its 2007 with an 800x480 screen is not good enough.

3. oh yeah, it needs to run MeeGo - not interested in WP7

Prozac786

2011-05-12 09:29

Re: N9 hits FCC???

N9 prototype got fully developed and released as the E7. Nokia just changed the name.

It is no coincidence they looked very similar in the early N9 videos and they look exactly the same in the more recent 'N9' videos (before E7 release) where an unbranded 'N9' was actually running symbian as well, advertising everything the E7 could do, but because it had no name, the testing guy assumed it was the N9, which is true, Nokia just released it as an E7.

So whatever the 'N9' looks like in those videos, is actually the E7. If Nokia chooses to release an official N9, it wont look like the above image or videos because those videos of the 'N9' prototype are actually of the E7.

I'm surprised most people didn't work this out already.

mrsellout

2011-05-12 09:46

Re: N9 hits FCC???

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prozac786 (Post 1004731)

If you look at the endgadget post from last year they mention the RM-680 model number - the same one plastered all over the FCC docs. The backplate is near enough the same as that on the FCC doc. This is that device, no doubt about it.

mece	2011-05-12 10:13

Re: N9 hits FCC???

Quote:

Originally Posted by zehjotkah (Post 1004693)

No FM-Transmitter only for dev-device (afaik)

Care to clarify this?
Does it mean:
a) it doesn't have fmtx, and there is a different developer device that has fmtx
b) it doesn't have fmtx, but it (being the device you have seen and/or used) is a developer device so we don't know if the final product has fmtx
c) it doesn't have an fmtx, nor will it or any special version of it, ever have one?

benny1967

2011-05-12 10:29

Re: N9 hits FCC???

Quote:

Originally Posted by sony123 (Post 1004696)

I'm confused reading zehjotkah's tweets.

+1. ;)

(OTOH, this may have been part of his wicked plan. *LOL*)

Quote:

Originally Posted by sony123 (Post 1004696)

The plan sounds so familiar with Maemo5, when originally we were hinted there would be two devices running M5. The 2nd device was said to be launched about half a year later than N900.

Yep. Still remember the "Maemo 5 lead device" and talk about software designers shouldn't take a hardware keyboard for granted and all that stuff. I was absolutely certain then there'd be a choice of Maemo-powered devices. Thank good there wasn't. I would have bought them all. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by sony123 (Post 1004696)

I am purely speculating.... seems like the plan is:
RM680: developer device, hw-wise not necessarily the same as N950 (no FM, maybe lesser CPU)
N950: Summer? Fall?
Second commercial device: Early 2012 depending on sale of N950?

Given that until now, I thought the official wording was "one more MeeGo-compatible device, then WP7 only", at least there's new hope. It could still be that there's only one last GNU/Linux based device from Nokia... but, hey!, at least there's fresh speculation!

blipnl

2011-05-12 11:00

Re: N9 hits FCC???

Need dual coar! Massiv multitasking FTW! Heavy distros, emulation, responsiveness under higher load etc! What fun is OC'ing a single 1GHz core? Titan knows what I'm saying.. ;) Oh and more RAM in the van for this man.

slender

2011-05-12 11:05

Re: N9 hits FCC???

Quote:

Originally Posted by geohsia (Post 1004716)

We have had devices for ages that handle this kind of situations much better. It's more of optimized code issue than just "lets use bigger engine for that" issue.

Quote:

When I am driving, I use OVI maps (w/ GPS ), have Google Maps in the background because OVI Maps isn't always right, and am also streaming music in the background. In that state, any input is incredibly slow and difficult. Would dual core help? hope so. Dual-core is helpful for power users, which I thought was this group. I could be wrong.

You belong to minority. Without doubt dual-core would benefit _you_ and also _me_. Stuff what you are doing is just way off "regular" usage.

Using bigger engine is just one part solution. I would put much much more emphasis on code optimization rather than "braindead" way of gazing just specs.

Quote:

Sure, but how long did it take for the community to do that? As far as I know OVI maps is still a resource hog.

If you think that any of default apps on n900 are optimized to top then you should use other devices. For example composition is disabled. Test nitdroid and see that this device is able to deliver smooth experience. Try cloud gps and see how mapping sofware should behave on this device.

Quote:

By your last statement you've probably given the greatest argument for dual-core. The fact of the matter is that Nokia does not plan on spending tons of resources on MeeGo. Right? Having said that Nokia once they get the checkmark (OVI Maps, web browser, and etc.) isn't going to spend a ton of time writing and re-writing code to make it super efficient. For what, 90k+ users? Give me a break. Until things get worked out, the software will likely be buggy and not optimized. You'll be glad for ever extra Megahertz you can get your hands on.

hmmm looks like we are talking about different pictures. I'm speaking in generally.

They will ship harmattan that should be Meego API compatible. Do you understand what meego stands for.

What I would emphasis is amount of memory and code quality over cpu speed which is of course also important. Actually I would gladly buy cheap medicore HW and pay monthly for support after some period of time. Bit like virus/gps software houses and more importantly I want to be able to choose software company that provides support.

vivmak

2011-05-12 11:13

Re: N9 hits FCC???

if it is as open as Maemo and contains features that Nokia omitted out of Maemo are included I would buy it else there is no point spending $$$ I would imagine it will upwards of $500 if at all released.

geohsia

2011-05-12 11:27

Re: N9 hits FCC???

Quote:

Originally Posted by slender (Post 1004776)

We have had devices for ages that handle this kind of sitsuations much
better. It's more of optimized code issue than just "lets use bigger
engine for that" issue.

Quote:

You belong in minority. Without doubt dual-core would benefit _you_ and
also _me_. Stuff what you are doing is just way off "regular" usage.

This is the difference between Linux based multi-tasking vs iPhone multi-tasking. In OVI Maps if I want to surf the web, listen to music while tracking my location I just keep OVI Maps running. In the iPhone, Maps, closes but because it is context / state aware, when I switch back to it it returns back to my previous state. If I closed OVI Maps, I have to re-enter all of the addresses again and start from step 1 wheras the iPhone jumps back to where I was. I was on a roadtrip and frustrated as heck trying to get OVI back to the same spot whereas my iPhone friends could track location in seconds. I would then have to keep OVI maps on at all times thus my battery disappears in less than 2 hrs. Where as iPhone friends had not a care in the world. So because of Maemo / MeeGo's lack of state awareness (continuation) it is not unreasonable to expect to keep apps open a long time especially when you have a device that is specifically for that.

Quote:

Using bigger engine is just one part solution. I would put much much
more emphasis on code optimization rather than "braindead" way of gazing just specs.

I would agree with you but facts are facts. Nokia is not investing so do you think they're going to optimize? I don't work for Nokia but I know the answer will be "NO." Haven't done it for the N900 and don't see them changing that tune.

Quote:

If you think that any of default apps on n900 are optimized to top then
you should use other devices. For example composition is disabled. Test
nitdroid and see that this device is able to deliver smooth experience.
Try geeps and see how mapping sofware should behave on this device.

Read again what I"m saying I don't think the N900 apps are optimized at all which is why the N950 won't be either.

Quote:

=hmmm looks like we are talking about different pictures. I'm speaking
in generally.

They will ship harmattan that should be Meego API compatible. Do you
understand what meego stands for.

I do and MeeGo has even less life than Maemo. At least when the N900 released they thought Maemo was the future, we know from Nokia's public statements that they're not investing much in MeeGo. What is it you don't understand about their statements toward their intentions?

Quote:

What I would emphasise is amount of memory and ocde quality over cpu
speed which is of course also important. Actually I would gladly buy cheap medicore HW and pay monthly for support after some period of
time. Bit like virus/gps software houses and more importantly I want to
be able to choose software company that provides support.

I agree with you and would love to see that for MeeGo. If that's your deciding factor WP7 is for you. I don't want WP 7 and since there won't be any support for MeeGo like they WILL have for WP7, we need to gear up and load up on the cores. As many as will fit that's what I say.

slender

2011-05-12 11:50

Re: N9 hits FCC???

@geoshia
WTF. WP7 for me? Are you kidding me or did you not understand my last paragraph. Only way to get support from where ever you want is to use Open Source. Also I do not want Phone OS.

daperl

2011-05-12 11:52

Re: N9 hits FCC???

Even though these guys can't seem to get their packaging right, if you want to see a good example of developers that know how to program for devices like the n900, install mbarcode-core.

Bad code is bad code, but even great code can't always make up for lackluster hardware. The n900 is excellent, but it's time for the next step: More cores, more RAM. Oh yeah, and a compass.

vi_	2011-05-12 12:11

Re: N9 hits FCC???

Quote:

Originally Posted by geohsia (Post 1004794)

I don't disagree that we need optimization. Since that has not yet happened for the N900 why do we think it will happen for the N950?

For heavy users, how many are using Titan? Just so I can get smooth scrolling? Not to mention all of the other slowness issues.

This is the difference between Linux based multi-tasking vs iPhone multi-tasking. In OVI Maps if I want to surf the web, listen to music while tracking my location I just keep OVI Maps running. In the iPhone, Maps, closes but because it is context / state aware, when I switch back to it it returns back to my previous state. If I closed OVI Maps, I have to re-enter all of the addresses again and start from step 1 wheras the iPhone jumps back to where I was. I was on a roadtrip and frustrated as heck trying to get OVI back to the same spot whereas my iPhone friends could track location in seconds. I would then have to keep OVI maps on at all times thus my battery disappears in less than 2 hrs. Where as iPhone friends had not a care in the world. So because of Maemo / MeeGo's lack of state awareness (continuation) it is not unreasonable to expect to keep apps open a long time especially when you have a device that is specifically for that.

I would agree with you but facts are facts. Nokia is not investing so do you think they're going to optimize? I don't work for Nokia but I know the answer will be "NO." Haven't done it for the N900 and don't see them changing that tune.

Read again what I"m saying I don't think the N900 apps are optimized at all which is why the N950 won't be either.

I do and MeeGo has even less life than Maemo. At least when the N900 released they thought Maemo was the future, we know from Nokia's public statements that they're not investing much in MeeGo. What is it you don't understand about their statements toward their intentions?

I agree with you and would love to see that for MeeGo. If that's your deciding factor WP7 is for you. I don't want WP 7 and since there won't be any support for MeeGo like they WILL have for WP7, we need to gear up and load up on the cores. As many as will fit that's what I say.

I WANTZ TETRATION P4 PREZCOTT CORZ AND 8 SNAPDRAGOONZ GPUz. SO ICAN MICRO TWEET ON MI FACEBLOG IN FLASH11 TO FASTER. ALSO GALLIUM NITRIDE PLATED QWERTIZ AN A PONI.

Stonik

2011-05-12 12:21

Re: N9 hits FCC???

1 GHz A8 core + PowerVR SGX540 is not a bad SoC at the moment, but the raw cpu power is just too close to OMAP3430 - even though stock N900 runs @600MHz. A smartphone is a long term investiment for me, and if I pay more than 500 euros for N9, a dual core SoC means it's proabably still usable in 2013 as dual core cpus have become mainstream.

I'm not going to buy an Android device because of Tegra 2 or OMAP4 chipsets; if N9 is single core, I'll stick with N900 - which is still a great device.

daperl

2011-05-12 12:39

Re: N9 hits FCC???

It's this simple for me: If you're gonna ask me to give up my built-in stylus, you better be bringing me an extra core, extra RAM, and of course, a compass in a pear tree. I would even let you forego the FM and IR transmitters, but that's it! :)

zehjotkah

2011-05-12 13:45

Re: N9 hits FCC???

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prozac786 (Post 1004731)

completely bull$hit.

the leaked photos of the "N9" on engadget were photos from a hardware mockup. you know, a device to let the management decide about materials and size and so on.
management decided it looks too much as an E7 and shouldn't be released in the same timeframe as the E7. (at least this is what I was told by Nokia)
the leaked video of techbuffalo was, well, a leaked E7.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mece (Post 1004759)

As far as I know (and we haven't talked a lot about fmtx) the dev-device won't have fmtx but the consumer device will have it. But I'm not sure regarding this point. maybe I'll know more about this later today -> Nokia meeting

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